little finger joint swelling

[JayPH]

I've been playing bass since a long lay off for about a year or more now and around 6 months ago the joint in my little finger, the one nearest the finger nail started swelling after playing for a few hours. Now it swells after about 10 minutes playing and is quite painful.

I went to the doctors and she said rest it and use anti-inflamatory gel. I've been resting it and just using 3 fingers but it's frustrating because Its really hindering my practicing. I was a bit miffed she couldn't do anything. I was expecting physio maybe.

Has this happened to anybody else? Did you have to alter the way you play or did it mend after a suitable rest period?

Cheers

J

[paul_5]

I had a similar thing from playing DB many moons ago. Mine was diagnosed as tendonitis in my LH thumb - basically the tendon gets inflamed and can't move freely in the little groove in your knuckle and that's the painful bit. I was given anti-inflammatory gel, and I also got my GP to sort me out with some acupuncture (sadly I had to pay for this) which worked a treat.

Now I make sure that I ALWAYS warm up before I play.

[Gust0o]

I'm unsure mate. They don't do a lot for fingers - if you'd asked for physio, you might well have been laughed out of the room. I've had several finger breaks in my sportier years, and the most you get is splinting and sent on your way.

I know you say you're resting it by not using it - but I think she might well have meant a more significant rest, i.e. your whole hand, to allow some window for recovery. If you don't give yourself time for recovery then you're only asking for a repitition and worsening.

Anti-inflam might help along the way, but I'd be asking to know more about the root cause. Hard to treat if you don't know what the cause is.

So:
[list]
[*]Find out what the injury genuinely is (tendonitis?)
[*]Rest. Really
[*]Understand what it is in your playing which is really causing the problem and allow for it (warm-up, limit technique whilst recovering, etc)
[/list]

[Coilte]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1334743848' post='1620469']
I'm unsure mate. They don't do a lot for fingers - if you'd asked for physio, you might well have been laughed out of the room. I've had several finger breaks in my sportier years, and the most you get is splinting and sent on your way.

I know you say you're resting it by not using it - but I think she might well have meant a more significant rest, i.e. your whole hand, to allow some window for recovery. If you don't give yourself time for recovery then you're only asking for a repitition and worsening.

Anti-inflam might help along the way, but I'd be asking to know more about the root cause. Hard to treat if you don't know what the cause is.

So:
[list]
[*]Find out what the injury genuinely is (tendonitis?)
[*]Rest. Really
[*]Understand what it is in your playing which is really causing the problem and allow for it (warm-up, limit technique whilst recovering, etc)
[/list]
[/quote]

+1 to all of this.


The doctor probably meant complete rest for the hand itself. Unfortunately that means no playing for awhile. Better that than to do more serious damage by continuing to play. Bear in mind that your problem could possibly be non bass related, and playing merely aggravates it. When you do go back to playing regularly, as advised above, be sure to warm up first, with gentle stretches and check your technique. Video clips for both of these are on You Tube. Finally, NEVER play through pain, in the hope that it will go away eventually. It seldom does so. More often than not, it gets worse.

[JayPH]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1334743667' post='1620465']
I had a similar thing from playing DB many moons ago. Mine was diagnosed as tendonitis in my LH thumb - basically the tendon gets inflamed and can't move freely in the little groove in your knuckle and that's the painful bit. I was given anti-inflammatory gel, and I also got my GP to sort me out with some acupuncture (sadly I had to pay for this) which worked a treat.

Now I make sure that I ALWAYS warm up before I play.
[/quote]
Wish I'd have warmed up. Glad you are sorted out now and its good to know it isn't necessarily a permanent thing. As for acupunture, if this doesnt heal naturally I'll give it a try.

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1334743848' post='1620469']
I'm unsure mate. They don't do a lot for fingers - if you'd asked for physio, you might well have been laughed out of the room. I've had several finger breaks in my sportier years, and the most you get is splinting and sent on your way.

I know you say you're resting it by not using it - but I think she might well have meant a more significant rest, i.e. your whole hand, to allow some window for recovery. If you don't give yourself time for recovery then you're only asking for a repitition and worsening.

Anti-inflam might help along the way, but I'd be asking to know more about the root cause. Hard to treat if you don't know what the cause is.

So:
[list]
[*]Find out what the injury genuinely is (tendonitis?)
[*]Rest. Really
[*]Understand what it is in your playing which is really causing the problem and allow for it (warm-up, limit technique whilst recovering, etc)
[/list]
[/quote]
I know what you mean. Same when I broke my hand. Sent me on my merry way and said it would be right as rain in 3 weeks. That was about 5 years ago and it still hurts sometimes now. When you say find out what it is, that's what I had hoped for at the docs. She did say it might be the tendons but left it at that. In fact you gave me more advice than she did

It's gonna be tough not playing folr a while but we are having a break with the band anyway so now is the best time to try. I just have to track one bassline first and then i'll take a break. Am gonna be w***ing like a Gibbon now through boredom haha

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1334746939' post='1620523']

+1 to all of this.


The doctor probably meant complete rest for the hand itself. Unfortunately that means no playing for awhile. Better that than to do more serious damage by continuing to play. Bear in mind that your problem could possibly be non bass related, and playing merely aggravates it. When you do go back to playing regularly, as advised above, be sure to warm up first, with gentle stretches and check your technique. Video clips for both of these are on You Tube. Finally, NEVER play through pain, in the hope that it will go away eventually. It seldom does so. More often than not, it gets worse.
[/quote]

Wish I'd have had this advice sooner. I kept playing through it thinking it would "get used" to it. What a twerp. Will definitely be doing warm ups from now on. I would be chuffed if it heals.

[nick]

I had something similar in same area of my index finger, end joint.
However, narrowed my problem down to bad fretting technique, causing too much pressure on the joint, creating inflammation. The problem was particualrly prevalent after playing higher action bass with heavy flats.
On advise from Bassbod, changing my technique, warm up exercises, plus going down a string gauge has helped me.

Edited April 18, 2012 by nick

[Dave Vader]

I have a similarly buggered ring finger on my left hand at the moment, it's a pain in the rear, am going to the docs with it tomorrow. Can't have been playing related though, as it kicked in on note 2 of the 1st set a couple of weeks ago.
Can play around it fine with the other 3 fingers in my current gig. But can't play guitar properly...

Also can't afford to rest it til after friday night, than we have a long gigless gap.
Good luck Jay, will compare notes with you after I get back from the docs.

[visog]

Been there myself with a sore pinky on the fretting hand. +1 to the advice given so far.. my two penneth. Finding both a cause and cure can be very difficult. Could be arthritis or could be shoulder or back problems manifesting in your fingers. Be prepared for a long (years) recovery time if it's nerve damage.

You mention that you’ve picked up bass after a lay off. Perhaps you’re too eager to regain your previous form and are playing beyond your current muscle strength. (Just ‘cause you did a marathon 5 years ago doesn’t mean you can do one tomorrow!)

On the plus side, there's plenty you can do whilst it heals:
[list]
[*]Hydrate – Like sport, your muscles will not respond well to a lack of fluids... (or bad health generally)
[*]Stretch – nerve stretch which runs from your little finger to your neck – see youtube.
[*]Posture - make sure your back is straight and the bass angled/at height so don't have a sharp right-angle bend in either wrist when playing. (Jimmy Page height give you a bent left hand. Mark King gives you a bent right so mid-way with an angle.)
[*]Practise with the bass on your left knee rather than on a strap in case you’re compressing your shoulders.
[*]Warm-up slowly – break out all those slow note-naming exercises to keep you slow and feed your knowledge whilst you’re at it. Slow scales are good and so is sight-reading as you defocus on your hands and re-frame around the reading the music.
[*]Play until the on-set of any discomfort let alone pain then stop.
[*]Also, if you’re into slap, you can change to this approach since normally the left hand is more percussive with the index finger doing most of the fretting with the rest muting and providing a left-hand slap now and again.
[/list]

As has been said already, adjust your bass to a lower action and lighter gauge strings. Probably avoid 35”plus scale instruments as they increase the tension. This is a black art as strings vary a lot in tension and flexibility – see other threads on this topic. Also, play with a very light touch... let your amp do the work. Gary Willis speaks well about this whole topic so again YouTube his vids, particularly where he talks about how little left hand pressure you actually need.

Good luck and prepare for a long-haul but if you’re careful, the gaps between pain will get longer.

[musophilr]

Just to add this to the other good advice above - gentle stretching exercise helps - open the hand out and push the digits back with your other hand, likewise moving the digit against spring tension. From a fingers curled to palm position open the hand up while you've got a rubber band on the end of the affected digit which you're holding with the other hand so that the digit works against the tension.

FWIW I had reason to go to a physio, she worked at a sports centre and IMO she was very capable, knowledgeable, and good at her job. There was one thing she tried that I disagreed with though - acupuncture. I never worked out how sticking a pin into something that already hurts is going to make it hurt less!

[JayPH]

[quote name='nick' timestamp='1334748352' post='1620547']
I had something similar in same area of my index finger, end joint.
However, narrowed my problem down to bad fretting technique, causing too much pressure on the joint, creating inflammation. The problem was particualrly prevalent after playing higher action bass with heavy flats.
On advise from Bassbod, changing my technique, warm up exercises, plus going down a string gauge has helped me.
[/quote]
Thanks man. Glad you've seen an improvement. Also good to know it does happen to other bass players because I couldn't find a lot about it on Google and just put it down to arthritis for a long time.
[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1334749003' post='1620567']
I have a similarly buggered ring finger on my left hand at the moment, it's a pain in the rear, am going to the docs with it tomorrow. Can't have been playing related though, as it kicked in on note 2 of the 1st set a couple of weeks ago.
Can play around it fine with the other 3 fingers in my current gig. But can't play guitar properly...

Also can't afford to rest it til after friday night, than we have a long gigless gap.
Good luck Jay, will compare notes with you after I get back from the docs.
[/quote]
You too man. Hope you get a result and yes, please let me know what they say
[quote name='visog' timestamp='1334751416' post='1620628']
Been there myself with a sore pinky on the fretting hand. +1 to the advice given so far.. my two penneth. Finding both a cause and cure can be very difficult. Could be arthritis or could be shoulder or back problems manifesting in your fingers. Be prepared for a long (years) recovery time if it's nerve damage.

You mention that you’ve picked up bass after a lay off. Perhaps you’re too eager to regain your previous form and are playing beyond your current muscle strength. (Just ‘cause you did a marathon 5 years ago doesn’t mean you can do one tomorrow!)

On the plus side, there's plenty you can do whilst it heals:
[list]
[*]Hydrate – Like sport, your muscles will not respond well to a lack of fluids... (or bad health generally)
[*]Stretch – nerve stretch which runs from your little finger to your neck – see youtube.
[*]Posture - make sure your back is straight and the bass angled/at height so don't have a sharp right-angle bend in either wrist when playing. (Jimmy Page height give you a bent left hand. Mark King gives you a bent right so mid-way with an angle.)
[*]Practise with the bass on your left knee rather than on a strap in case you’re compressing your shoulders.
[*]Warm-up slowly – break out all those slow note-naming exercises to keep you slow and feed your knowledge whilst you’re at it. Slow scales are good and so is sight-reading as you defocus on your hands and re-frame around the reading the music.
[*]Play until the on-set of any discomfort let alone pain then stop.
[*]Also, if you’re into slap, you can change to this approach since normally the left hand is more percussive with the index finger doing most of the fretting with the rest muting and providing a left-hand slap now and again.
[/list]

As has been said already, adjust your bass to a lower action and lighter gauge strings. Probably avoid 35”plus scale instruments as they increase the tension. This is a black art as strings vary a lot in tension and flexibility – see other threads on this topic. Also, play with a very light touch... let your amp do the work. Gary Willis speaks well about this whole topic so again YouTube his vids, particularly where he talks about how little left hand pressure you actually need.

Good luck and prepare for a long-haul but if you’re careful, the gaps between pain will get longer.
[/quote]
Wow, thanks for this dude. I'll have a look at those vids and do the exercises. I think I definitely need to revise my technique when it's ok to play again. I think I put way more pressure than is necessary because of poor posture. I get neck pain and shoulder pain sometimes too. I push down with the tip of my pinky so it's arched, I might have to play it with my finger flat like you would play when damping strings. If I cant resist the urge to play I will, as you say, play slap bass. I rarely use my little finger for that.

I'm not even thinking nerve damage at this point. I couldn't bare it.
[quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1334752199' post='1620647']
Just to add this to the other good advice above - gentle stretching exercise helps - open the hand out and push the digits back with your other hand, likewise moving the digit against spring tension. From a fingers curled to palm position open the hand up while you've got a rubber band on the end of the affected digit which you're holding with the other hand so that the digit works against the tension.

FWIW I had reason to go to a physio, she worked at a sports centre and IMO she was very capable, knowledgeable, and good at her job. There was one thing she tried that I disagreed with though - acupuncture. I never worked out how sticking a pin into something that already hurts is going to make it hurt less!
[/quote]

Thanks. I've seen physio work wonders on other things so I'm a big believer. My thigh muscle was knackered and every time I used step it killed me. i thought it was the hip bone but the x ray was clear. After 3 months of physio it was definitely improved. I'm going to try that rubber band exercise. It should slowly strengthen the tendons.

Acupuncture would be a last resort but one i'd try if nothing else worked. Would miss playing bass way too much.

[JayPH]

Lads, sorry to bleat on but I havent played bass for 4 days now and this is definitely improving but swells sometimes especially in the night. Anyone got an idea of how long i should be looking to rest up? Should i start dropping ibuprofen? I wanted to go on a merry jaunt to manchester tomorrow to play some basses and test some amps so will have to just play light with the other fingers. PS if you have any nice plans for tomorrow it will rain cos it always does whenever I'm in Manchester.

[CBbass]

Made me think of this, perhaps yours isn't quite so severe if it is this.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='JayPH' timestamp='1335203101' post='1627221']
Lads, sorry to bleat on but I havent played bass for 4 days now and this is definitely improving but swells sometimes especially in the night. Anyone got an idea of how long i should be looking to rest up? Should i start dropping ibuprofen? I wanted to go on a merry jaunt to manchester tomorrow to play some basses and test some amps so will have to just play light with the other fingers. PS if you have any nice plans for tomorrow it will rain cos it always does whenever I'm in Manchester.
[/quote]

Glad to hear of some progress. Swelling in the night can occur with a lot of injuries - you sleep on them; you're not moving; etc.

I'd drop Ibuprofen when the discomfort starts. But that's just me.

I know what you mean about the boredom. When I broke my arm in 2003, I took a break from then... until 2008. I can't recall if I was w***ing like a Gibbon. I did nearly just type in 'Gibson' there, which just shows I'm all fixed now.

The hand still hurts. I can predict snow 24hrs prior through the pain.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='CBbass' timestamp='1335203316' post='1627234']



Made me think of this, perhaps yours isn't quite so severe if it is this.
[/quote]

Well, you could build from Ibuprofen to Heroin, if the pain becomes more severe. It's what Keith would do

[CBbass]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1335203622' post='1627242']
Well, you could build from Ibuprofen to Heroin, if the pain becomes more severe. It's what Keith would do
[/quote]

Classic

[JayPH]

haha nice lads. I feel like a big pansy now looking at KR's gnarley old flanges. Bet they've been in some exotic places haha. I'll get me coat.

w***ing like a gibson is definitley a freudian slip Gust0o

[paul_5]

[quote name='CBbass' timestamp='1335203316' post='1627234']



[/quote]

To be fair though, that's his picking hand...

[media]http://youtu.be/Mzcgyk62cHU[/media]

[KiOgon]

Not wishing to state the obvious - but a good set-up (on the bass, not you) - can really make playing so much easier speaking as an arthritic old git

Cheerz, John

[JayPH]

I shoot with this hand haha. They dont make them like that anymore. I really want to see KR's other hand now.

@John. I think the setups on my p bass is fine but i'm having my mate restring the jazz bass and get the action as low as possible without loads of fret buzz. I had it set up last year for £35 and was very not impressed. It was awful tbh and i had to do the intonation myself.

[Dave Vader]

I am not playing for a bit. Doc said it was just a strained tendon and it needed to rest. It has been 4 days, I am very bored. I occasionally test it to see if it doesn't hurt anymore. This is a stupid thing to do, because it does.

[Lewk]

cut your hands off and replace them with victor wootens?

[visog]

[quote name='Lewk' timestamp='1335259130' post='1627946']
cut your hands off and replace them with victor wootens?
[/quote]

Aren't they in use? (Also been done... 'The Hands of Orlac').

Edited April 24, 2012 by visog

[JayPH]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1335256504' post='1627894']
I am not playing for a bit. Doc said it was just a strained tendon and it needed to rest. It has been 4 days, I am very bored. I occasionally test it to see if it doesn't hurt anymore. This is a stupid thing to do, because it does.

[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback Dave.

Haha it's hard to resist. Played some basses today though and used it more than i should. think iv'e got the same so will take it easy and when i've got no pain and swelling i'll do those exercises suggested by musophilr were you use a rubber band to stretch the tendons. Got a 2 week layoff from the band because of other stuff so will try hard to resist. Did he give you any idea how long to rest it for?

[JayPH]

[quote name='Lewk' timestamp='1335259130' post='1627946']
cut your hands off and replace them with victor wootens?
[/quote]

I'd take a shot with anyone elses hands to be fair they'd probably be more coordinated than mine.

[ashevans09]

[quote name='JayPH' timestamp='1335303153' post='1629135']
Did he give you any idea how long to rest it for?
[/quote]

I know this isn't something you'll want to hear necessarily but a guitarist friend of mine damaged the tendons in his left pinky when he dislocated it. It's absolutely knackered for the time being, and has been told to expect 3 months off playing guitar at least.

Tendons are a nasty thing to bugger - had my arm forceably hyperextended and did a few tendons in my right arm and it's taken months (with physio) to get it back to normal. I know it's absolutely balls but a decent length rest now, while crap, might avoid this becoming chronic.