OliverBlackman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 can you please check something for me. I noticed my tokai has a much higher output on the neck pickup than the bridge and i think this could be responsible for it lacking a bit in the low mids. I was wondering if people could check theres out and comment on what the difference in output is like. If you could also specify what model you have as it would be interesting to see if theres a purposeful difference in and place of manufacture. cheers, Ollie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 One owned 2 Fender jazzes in my time and the neck pup has always been louder. Or rather has been perceived to be louder. I always put it down to the different frequencies of the pup being heard giving the impression of sounding louder. Also owned a 70's Gherson jazz that had had the pups switched around (so the neck pup was at the bridge and vice versa) and noticed that the neck pup sounded louder than the bridge. Hope that helps? Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The string will have more movement over the neck pickup than over the bridge which could probably contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You should be able to adjust your pickups as each should have its own volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You could try physically lowering the neck pickup and raising the bridge pickup so that they're more balanced at identical volume settings? Appreciated that they have individual volume controls, but I would prefer to try to achieve something approaching an equilibrium to work from subsequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) The neck pup gets stronger vibrations from the strings than the bridge and will therefore generate a stronger output. Balancing the output of neck and bridge pups is down to seting the pickup height. I have my bridge pup set a little closer to the strings than the neck but it's a matter of personal taste. If you're not happy with the balance on your jazz try lowering the neck pup or raising the bridge pup and seeing how that sounds. Edited April 19, 2012 by ikay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1334829380' post='1621864'] You should be able to adjust your pickups as each should have its own volume control. [/quote] yh i know that lol, i'm on about when the controls are on 100% theres a huge difference in volume between the neck on full with no bridge and the bridge on full with no neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 thanks for the responses guys. I've got the pickups so the bridge is a little higher than the neck already but i don't want to move the neck pickup as i really like the tone's i can get out of it. I appreciate that the bridge pickup is going to have smaller vibrations over it but i would like to be able to make the frequencies picked up by the bridge pickup more audible. Is not not the way the pickups have been wired then? I thought that the tighter the wound the higher the output, and maybe my bridge pickup was wound to be weak on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 As has been said, lower the neck pickup and raise the bridge pickup until their output is similar when each is on full volume. There is no black magic or complicated maths here , it really is that simple. Your bridge pickup is probably a hotter output pickup than the neck anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Also, this isn't something you should judge visually, you need to forget about having them around the same distance away from the string and do it purely on what you hear. You will adjust to any changes within a couple of minutes of playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 The neck pickups not got much room for adjustment as my actions low as well. The difference in volume on mine is beyond pickup height though. For example if i have the bridge pickup on full, i have to have the neck pickup on 70% for it to become an acceptable volume. This is just for bedroom playing as well. Starting to think from responses on here that its just a fault with my bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 the neck pickup on a jazz is louder cos thst's the one you're meant to use. it's like a clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1334830232' post='1621889'] ... maybe my bridge pickup was wound to be weak on purpose. [/quote] As Doctor J says. it's more usual for the bridge pickup to be wound hotter than the neck, not weaker. Maybe your Tokai doesn't have a properly matched pair of pups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 It's down to the physics in part. Electromagnetic induction generates a bigger electric current when the movement of the coil (the string) is greater or the magnet (in the pickup) is more powerful. You can make the magnet "more powerful" by decreasing the distance between the string and the pickup. The string vibrates more further from its anchored ends. The bridge is one anchored end and the nut is the other. So there is more current generated by the neck pickup - so it sends a "hotter" signal to the amp unless this is compensated for by less windings in the neck pickup, or reducing the volume.... Blah, blah, blah! But yes - the neck pickup always seems to sound louder. Different harmonics too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 just lower the neck pickup a bit, or raise teh bridge if you can. Its quite normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Alternatively the frequencies will be very different from each. Is it maybe compromised a little by your amp EQ (perhaps cutting some highs?) Also a compressor MAY help a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 This is quite normal for a Jazz, especially if you have 70s spaced pickups (Bridge pickup is closer to bridge) - I think the 70s Tokai ones were 70s spacing. I overcame this problem by adjusting the height of the pickups initially as everyone does, but ended up with the NPU level with the scratchplate and the BPU almost in the way of the strings! So I got Andy at Wizard to make me a hotter (overwound) bridge pickup compared to the neck. The BPU is still higher than the NPU but not so extreme, I'd say about a 1/4" difference in distance from strings. I still blend in a bit of NPU with the bridge though as there's not much in the lower frequencies from the BPU alone. Don't be afraid of lowering the NPU a bit to get a better balance, you can always turn the amp up! It's all about reaching equilibrium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1334839999' post='1622148'] Alternatively the frequencies will be very different from each. Is it maybe compromised a little by your amp EQ (perhaps cutting some highs?) Also a compressor MAY help a bit. [/quote] +1 The BPU is all in the mids, if you have a smiley face EQ curve, you're cutting the BPU out. A compressor WILL help a lot IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 its 60's spacing. I've lowered the neck pickup as low as it will go and i can't raise the bridge pickup anymore. Its still an issue. Amp wise I'm going through the fx return so i've bypassed the pre-amp. I think i might take it to the gallery to see if they can re-wind the bridge pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='charic' timestamp='1334829151' post='1621856'] The string will have more movement over the neck pickup than over the bridge which could probably contribute. [/quote] winner. at least in my opinion. The way to balance them is not by selecting different volume settings (which can also be tricky with a passive blend, as one or the other will just take over rapidly), but by bringing down into the body the neck pickup and perhaps raising the bridge pickup. It's actually worth experimenting a bit, because the sound with both pickups on will vary A LOT depending on the balance (related to their distance from teh strings) between the two pickups. So play with it and see how the sound changes, you may find a sweet spot that's nothing like the setup you have right now, and all it takes is a few screw turns. If you can't balance them that way, then it suggests your pickups are not well matched. If your neck pickup is a "hot" pickup to start with, it can be hard to get it to balance with a low output bridge. So this may be your situation. But normally, stock pickups (or matched set pickups) can be balanced just by altering their heights. Edited April 20, 2012 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1334829380' post='1621864'] You should be able to adjust your pickups as each should have its own volume control. [/quote] Exactly, it will be very difficult to compare with other basses, passive or not, in fact you can't even be sure the amount of winding from one pickup to the other, Tokai would have bought the pickups from an aftermarket manufacturer and these will most probably been buildt to be sold singularly as opposed to "matching twins" which might explain the reason for one to be less powerful than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I always thought the pickups should be a set distance from the strings , well that's what it says on my Haynes manual anyway ! Although I have only used this as a rough guide and have gone more by what I hear , I noticed if one is too close to the strings you get some strange muffled sounds ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 When I fitted my preamp I initially fitted the wires the wrong way round which resulted in a weak sound from the pickups. I realised I must have done something wrong and then swopped them around and got a much stronger punchier sound. Maybe your front pickup is wired up wrongly............just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='gub' timestamp='1334994511' post='1624411'] I always thought the pickups should be a set distance from the strings , well that's what it says on my Haynes manual anyway ! Although I have only used this as a rough guide and have gone more by what I hear , I noticed if one is too close to the strings you get some strange muffled sounds ! [/quote] No, the optimum distance depends on the strings you use and to a large extent on your preference. But too close to the strings does cause some bad sounds, as you noticed. I like them a bit on the low side. The output is lower, but I feel it sounds "rounder". You have to experiment to get the balance right between your treble and bass side, and to the other pickups if you have more than one. There is no "magic" set distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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