Bazeley Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I have looked up in the forum but could not find an answer to this question. I am considering hooking a 500w head (@ 4ohm) up to two 8 ohm cabs. One being 400w and the other being 200w. Is this the sort of thing that is okay or will the amp put out 250w to each and possibly damage the 200w cab? I think i have described that correctly, any help apreciated. Bazeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) It would put out "up to" 250 watts to each cab, but it should be fine. I would stick the 200w cab on top of the 400w so you can hear if the amp ever needs to be backed off. Why not get 2 of the same cab? Makes more sense. Edited April 23, 2012 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The rating of the speaker has nothing to do with how the power is distributed. At FULL power, assuming you've wired up the speakers in parallel you'll probably get 250w to each. If you're careful with levels you should be OK in terms of not breaking stuff, but the 200w cab will be reaching its limit where the 400w cab may not even sound as loud as the 200w one because its not so sensitive. In my view its best not to mix and match with random cabs. You might actually be better off just using one of the cabs in terms of sound. If you're doing it because you need more volume the 200w cab will probably suffer because you're driving the levels up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazeley Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 cheers guys, that makes sense. i already own the cabs so i was looking at an upgraded head. I will probably sell some of the cabs and buy a nice matched setup. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I am always sceptical of bass into cabs..and the handling specs. I reckon I could blow most cabs/speakers with a 500w amp... and so I am always expecting to do so..so therefore run as conservatively as I can.. But when things are loud and you need a bit more...and then you can't hear as well as you might like..these are the dangerous times. So, yes, fine in theory, but less so in practice...the 210 will be the the weak link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonH Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Until recently I ran a 350 watt head into a 400w 4x10 and a 150w 1x15... and yup, all you could hear was the 15 struggling. The 4x10 was louder and clearer on its own. Then I parked the 15 and ran another 4x10, this time 800w, alongside the 400w 4x10 and... now I can't even hear the 400w cab. So the solution is to find an 800w 15, I guess. Or turn it all down a bit (not an option). Oh, and recently I blew up a 4 ohm 300w 2x10 (Skytronic speakers... are they supposed to be rubbish?) using a 400w head. Maybe I should turn it down after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazeley Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Fair points yeah! I was thought it would not work well. I shall sell what i have and get something loud and matched when i can afford it! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I used to have a similar situation with an Ampeg SVT410 and 15 setup. Offloaded both cabs and replaced it with a single SVT610, worked much better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I just use a single 4ohm 4x10 which is stupidly overrated for my amp. 500W into a 1200W cab = no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Same here, 500w amp at 4 ohms, 1200w 4 ohm cab. But, I`ve mixed cabs with good results. I think it depends on how much you push the amp. I used a 450 watt at 4 ohms amp with an Ampeg 410 & 210. The 210 handled 250 watts. But, the amp volume was only on 4, so I wasn`t exactly pushing it, however the spread of sound from the six 10s was great. I still prefer the one cab set-up though - much more practical, portable, and more power than I`m ever likely to need for the gigs that I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 [quote name='SimonH' timestamp='1335214926' post='1627531'] Until recently I ran a 350 watt head into a 400w 4x10 and a 150w 1x15... and yup, all you could hear was the 15 struggling. The 4x10 was louder and clearer on its own. Then I parked the 15 and ran another 4x10, this time 800w, alongside the 400w 4x10 and... now I can't even hear the 400w cab. So the solution is to find an 800w 15, I guess. Or turn it all down a bit (not an option). Oh, and recently I blew up a 4 ohm 300w 2x10 (Skytronic speakers... are they supposed to be rubbish?) using a 400w head. Maybe I should turn it down after all... [/quote] The wattage if the speakers is just the handling power, it means nothing about volume, if your 800w cab was louder than the 400w one it's because of the design/components, it's not because it has more power handlng. A 400w amp will put out 400w when maxed. If you have a 200w cab and only put out half power from the head, you'll be fine. Just use your ears, most cabs aren't very accurate with their power handling stats, same as most heads aren't very accurate with the actual power they put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 [quote name='Bazeley' timestamp='1335200229' post='1627147'] I have looked up in the forum but could not find an answer to this question. I am considering hooking a 500w head (@ 4ohm) up to two 8 ohm cabs. One being 400w and the other being 200w. Is this the sort of thing that is okay or will the amp put out 250w to each and possibly damage the 200w cab? I think i have described that correctly, any help apreciated. Bazeley [/quote] Can you tell us wich cabs and future amp are these? From your sig i'll bet that the cabs are the GK BLX's, if that's the case i think they wont work so bad together, i want to believe that GK did some effort to try to put out a line that can be mixed and mached with fairly good results! As for the power handling just trust your ears and EQ it so that you can avoid farting. Honestly i can't see a situation where you'll have to max out a 500W amp unless you're playing an outdoor gig without FOH support! I would say to get the amp first, try it with your cabs and then according to the results decide on the cab's fate. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1336467266' post='1645876'] ....I`ve mixed cabs with good results. I think it depends on how much you push the amp. I used a 450 watt at 4 ohms amp with an Ampeg 410 & 210. The 210 handled 250 watts. But, the amp volume was only on 4, so I wasn`t exactly pushing it, however the spread of sound from the six 10s was great.... [/quote] This is the point. It doesn't matter how many watts cabs are rated at, it's how loud you're going to play them. You can easily put a 1000 watt amp through a 100 watt cab with no problem, if the volume is low enough. I don't know what make your 500 watt amp is but 99% of players don't run their amps flat out so I can't see that there would be a problem with your rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just to complicate matters the cab rating won't guarantee that you'll know which will fart out first - the wattage is thermal rating, i.e. how much power before you melt the coil. It's other factors that determine when you get farting such as the cabinet design and the maximum excursion (i.e. how much range of movement back and forth it has) of the driver. It's quite possible that the higher-rated cab could break up sound-wise first depending on the driver and cab and this often happens at power levels way short of the driver maximum power rating. I remember seeing some testing and figures on Bill Fitzmaurice's site stating that it's not unusual for a cab with a 400W (thermal) rating could easily start farting at about 120W of input. So, go by your ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 To the OP: in many decades of playing I have never melted a voice coil and I don't know of anyone who has. I have never been hit by a meteorite either but I guess I should carry on wearing that crash helmet! I always ensure I have more cab watts than amp watts. I have never had anything fail because of misuse and I play in several bands that are at the extreme end of the volume scale. For years gear has generally been robust enough to survive what players throw at it. The manufacturers are making products that will be used and misused in a rough environment and I think they usually do a pretty good job of ensuring that their products get to the end of the show. Just an observation; most of the rock and roll world has never heard of Bill Fitzmaurice, and is doing fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1336520613' post='1647083'] Just an observation; most of the rock and roll world has never heard of Bill Fitzmaurice, and is doing fine. [/quote] Miaow! Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 +1 for using your ears. If a cab is struggling turn down a bit and start saving. Otherwise you should be able to play on with no problem. Of course some people haven't benefitting from knowing about Bill Fitzmaurice and his expertise but I can't see how they are better off as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I think where Chris was coming from - though don`t want to put words in his mouth - was that without a lot of technical knowledge and expertise, many people have paired different pieces of gear together, and gotten great results from doing so. A lot of which are probably the tones that so many of us on here love so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Fair enough, in which case we're all saying the same thing, using our ears is the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1336637897' post='1648621'] ....I think where Chris was coming from - though don`t want to put words in his mouth - was that without a lot of technical knowledge and expertise, many people have paired different pieces of gear together, and gotten great results from doing so.... [/quote] That's what I was thinking. Why didn't it come out like that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 There are are a few self appointed 'experts' on here who can add decent contributions but they aren't definitive in the grand scheme of things by any stretch and the way things are parroted as gospel and perpetuated you'd think the whole game started and ended with them.... hmmm.. If that is your only source of info, then fine, but you really need to get out more and talk to more of the industry. There is more to it than swimming in the seas of this forum. Oh well.... Don't get me wrong, this is a nice place to be..and there are good reasons to be here but 90% of the bass players I know haven't even heard of BC... so guess what proportion of soundmen, engrs, gtrs and others players etc etc would have as well...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Do yourself a favour and read Alex's web page about it all here: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/mythbusters1.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/mythbusters1.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1336657652' post='1649029'] There are are a few self appointed 'experts' on here who can add decent contributions but they aren't definitive in the grand scheme of things by any stretch and the way things are parroted as gospel and perpetuated you'd think the whole game started and ended with them.... hmmm.. If that is your only source of info, then fine, but you really need to get out more and talk to more of the industry. There is more to it than swimming in the seas of this forum. Oh well.... Don't get me wrong, this is a nice place to be..and there are good reasons to be here but 90% of the bass players I know haven't even heard of BC... so guess what proportion of soundmen, engrs, gtrs and others players etc etc would have as well...??? [/quote] Strange post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Interesting, seems to confirm what the likes of Maurice and Alex Claber have been saying, ie stand your 2x10 and 2x12s vertically. (Hence their speaker designs do the same). Fender twins, Jazz Choruses etc all better on their end. I suppose the venerable 4x12 columns lost popularity when drums, keys, bass etc started to be mic'd up and they couldn't reproduce the highs and lows like the bin and horns set ups. (Also we use Mackie type powered speakers, the same sort of spl from something a fraction of the size (and cost) of two 4x12 columns and the valve PA mixer/amp of old!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1336664204' post='1649169'] Strange post. [/quote] Not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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