Guitarist + 16 pedals = nightmare

[pietruszka]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1335285747' post='1628665']
Shep has 20....

Anyway you should go about telling him issue's with his sound should be sorted before rehearsals, taking up valuable time that the band can not spare, watching him fiddle knobs etc.

But quiet clearly it's not working and should be thrown out for the sake of the band, it's about compromise from all parties.
[/quote]
20?! Thats just a shop isn't it? Im not out to tell people they're wrong or to not use effects at all, as already agreed by several; if you know what you're doing then great. But it's when you use up valuable time getting plugged in, set up, got your settings just right etc etc.
I've used pedals live several times before, but it's pointless as it has no noticable affect on anything. IMHO if it doesn't make a difference that people will hear then why bother? I'd personally be happier being able to play gear I'm very lucky to have than worry about whether I have my pedals textures right.



Dan

[mep]

Tell him to sell them and buy a Pod or other multi-effects unit.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335296341' post='1628956']I've used pedals live several times before, but it's pointless as it has no noticable affect on anything.[/quote]

You're doing it wrong.

[Chris2112]

Frankly, 16 pedals seems a bit excessive. But I suppose it can be one of those things where you can get started and it's difficult to stop. I suspect this guitarist may not have heard himself play without layers of effects in years. I tend to keep effects on my sound down to a minimum, maybe with just a touch of chorus to add a little colour. When you have too many pedals you're just tap dancing and focusing on what effect you'll use next, rather than truely playing well.

[risingson]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335296341' post='1628956']
20?! Thats just a shop isn't it? Im not out to tell people they're wrong or to not use effects at all, as already agreed by several; if you know what you're doing then great. But it's when you use up valuable time getting plugged in, set up, got your settings just right etc etc.
I've used pedals live several times before, but it's pointless as it has no noticable affect on anything. IMHO if it doesn't make a difference that people will hear then why bother? I'd personally be happier being able to play gear I'm very lucky to have than worry about whether I have my pedals textures right.



Dan
[/quote]

I think its a bit different for guitar players. I agree that 16 pedals seems pretty excessive but I get the demand for multiple drives/fuzz/distortions and reverbs, as well as delay and stuff, as some of those sounds are almost part and parcel of what the guitar is all about thanks to the likes of Hendrix and plenty of other pioneering guitar players. Whilst I don't disagree with bass players using pedals, I don't think they necessarily make up as much of the voice and identity of what bass is about. Then again, it entirely depends on the type of music that you're playing, increasingly you're seeing more bass players creating big dubstep sounds on bass (ironically as dubstep begins to fall out of favour in the world of dance music).

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1335299561' post='1629044']When you have too many pedals you're just tap dancing and focusing on what effect you'll use next, rather than truely playing well.[/quote]

Yeah I spend all my time on stage focusing on what effect I'll use next, sometimes I forget to play any notes at all. I sometime forget to breathe actually - they're always having to slump me against the backline and give me oxygen.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335296341' post='1628956']
20?! Thats just a shop isn't it? Im not out to tell people they're wrong or to not use effects at all, as already agreed by several; if you know what you're doing then great. But it's when you use up valuable time getting plugged in, set up, got your settings just right etc etc.
I've used pedals live several times before, but it's pointless as it has no noticable affect on anything. IMHO if it doesn't make a difference that people will hear then why bother? I'd personally be happier being able to play gear I'm very lucky to have than worry about whether I have my pedals textures right.

Dan
[/quote]

Have a listen to this & then do it with just a chorus (mind hit the bypass switch )...

[url="http://ourhelicalmind.bandcamp.com/album/analogftw-ep"]Our Helical Mind[/url]

Just a drummer & a bassist to provide all the sounds.

There's a lot of other bands that use effects to this degree too. The bass is just used as the tone generator for what is an analogue synth.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1335300937' post='1629091']
Have a listen to this & then do it with just a chorus (mind hit the bypass switch )...

[url="http://ourhelicalmind.bandcamp.com/album/analogftw-ep"]Our Helical Mind[/url]

Just a drummer & a bassist to provide all the sounds.

There's a lot of other bands that use effects to this degree too. The bass is just used as the tone generator for what is an analogue synth.
[/quote]

Big Dug is a killer track!

When I was playing just guitar I had 10 or so pedals, several different drives that would get layered, a few modulation, EQ's and switching. not counting the EQ's and Switching it was about half that, which seems more sensible. But the switching pedals add lots of ease when you want to turn on 2 or 3 at once, and teh EQ's especially after drive units add lots more than you think.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335296341' post='1628956']
20?! Thats just a shop isn't it? Im not out to tell people they're wrong or to not use effects at all, as already agreed by several; if you know what you're doing then great. But it's when you use up valuable time getting plugged in, set up, got your settings just right etc etc.
I've used pedals live several times before, but it's pointless as it has no noticable affect on anything. IMHO if it doesn't make a difference that people will hear then why bother? I'd personally be happier being able to play gear I'm very lucky to have than worry about whether I have my pedals textures right.
[/quote]

I don't use any pedals on my bass but you're so far off the mark here its unreal. There are loads of modern bands who use effects almost as an other instrument---they literally wouldn't be able to do what they do without massive numbers of pedals. Now clearly thats not what you do (or what I do) but that doesn't mean that doing so is "pointless".

As has been said already---the problem here is the guitarist, not the gear.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1335299561' post='1629044']
When you have too many pedals you're just tap dancing and focusing on what effect you'll use next, rather than truely playing well.
[/quote]

Once you have got the toe tapping to keep time thing going on, its a minor variation. Sadly I learn to play keeping time by thrusting my crotch, and consequently have to velcro my pedals to the side of my cab and have sexy amps.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[pietruszka]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1335298683' post='1629031']


You're doing it wrong.
[/quote]
No I'm not, I know how to use an effect pedal. I'll reiterate my reasoning, not one person has ever said "I like the use of such and such a pedal on that track, it really added something". To be taking along gear that won't be noticed is just taking it along for your self, and I'd personally rather not be faffing about with gear that people won't appreciate/notice when I could be playing my heart out.

I also understand the use of effects and how they can be used, my guitarist makes his guitar sound like a Hammond and its great, again he knows what he's doing. He doesnt bother wih subtle differences and accuracies to the original track because as he puts it, "no one cares". My point I was making with pointless is when you have say, 3 distortions, is that a lot, not all guitarists have far too subtle differences between them. This is why my mate gave up taking 3 different distortions. And in his words it was pointless, because again as he said, no one will hear the difference and appreciate them.

These are based on my personal experiences, I'm not wrong and I'm not stating them as fact that everyone should follow.





Dan

[Twigman]

[quote name='bclhaynes' timestamp='1335281974' post='1628579']
Something else to consider is splitting rehearsals up so that at one you play through the songs and don't worry about effects,[/quote]
That could not be done in my band as guitar delay is an integral part of the songs. On several songs the guitar delay provides the tempo.

[quote name='bclhaynes' timestamp='1335281974' post='1628579'] but he really shouldn't be wasting the whole bands time sorting his own gear out.
[/quote]
He should do like our drummer who generally arrives before rehearsal start time and sets up the kit. He can do that in 10 minutes mind....but he still arrives 15minutes earlier than the rest of us.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335345140' post='1629452']No I'm not, I know how to use an effect pedal.[/quote]

If you switch one on and nobody can hear a difference then you're doing it wrong. When used correctly they make things sound different, so if you're not getting any difference in sound you must be doing it wrong. For the record I agree you (just you) shouldn't use effect pedals.

[Twigman]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1335346455' post='1629479']
For the record I agree you (just you) shouldn't use effect pedals.
[/quote]
That made me laugh!!!!!!!!!!

For the record I use a passive bass (for now) and a mere 2 pedals. A chorus (80s style) for 2 or 3 songs in a 20+ song set and a BBE OptoStomp compressor 100% of the time.
Takes me <1minute to set up.

[Dave Vader]

As a (very lazy) guitar player, i have a bunch of pedals, many of them are the same pedal set to different settings, so that when the inevitable moment arrives in a song that I haven't retwiddled the knobs for, i can step on the other delay, and it will be in time, and not all over the place. Plus different levels of fuzz are needed, if your only distortion tone is the face-melting lead solo, it's going to bleed all over the vocals.

[flyfisher]

All of this merely highlights the very different personalitiesto be found in bands. If they are a good (or bearable) blend then the band survives, if not the band will eventually break up. What won't happen is changing someone.

I play in two bands. The guitarist in one has half a dozen pedals in a pedal case. He turns up, opens the pedal case and is ready to play. Everything is already correctly wired up, the pedal settings are all correct and he knows which pedal(s) to use for each song.

The guitarist in the other band has a similar set up and a pedal case. He turns up, opens his pedal case, messes about with the wiring, plays about with the pedal settings, is unsure about which pedal to use at first, but gradually remembers after about half an hour.

In one of the bands we also have another guitarist who plays an acoustic for some songs. Without fail, when setting up his amp he'll plug it in with the amp on full volume leading to howling feedback and his tone and effects controls are always all over the place at the start of a session. I've lost track of how many times I've suggested using a marker to remind him of the basic settings. When not using the acoustic, he'll put it on a stand near the amp without turning down the volume, which generally results in a slowly building howl. His shambolic approach has been an open joke for a few years now but he never seems to learn. It's just the way he is.

But all of them are lovely guys, they're just different personalities and I can't see them changing any time soon.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1335346455' post='1629479']


If you switch one on and nobody can hear a difference then you're doing it wrong. When used correctly they make things sound different, so if you're not getting any difference in sound you must be doing it wrong. For the record I agree you (just you) shouldn't use effect pedals.
[/quote]
My point is if you have several of the same pedal. When we've done don't upset the Rythym iv played it with the distortion and with out. He distortion was loud enough to hear and iv never had any one actually tell it was there so I've never bothered, again, it's less to go wrong.



Dan

[discreet]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1335347226' post='1629503']
...What won't happen is changing someone... ...It's just the way he is... ...I can't see them changing any time soon.
[/quote]

Yes, all this. It's important not to waste time trying to make people do what seems to be obvious to you, because they just won't. It's the same in the band as it is in a relationship!

I've just quit a band because I realised there was no way I was going to change people's attitudes towards learning new material and rehearsing. Can't be done! You have to find out early on what the score is and make a decision!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335347292' post='1629507']
My point is if you have several of the same pedal. When we've done don't upset the Rythym iv played it with the distortion and with out. He distortion was loud enough to hear and iv never had any one actually tell it was there so I've never bothered, again, it's less to go wrong.
[/quote]

Just because nobody talks to you about an effect you used doesn't mean they didn't notice it. I don't think I've never had an audience member remark on a fill I've played but it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact at the time.

To say there's no way a guitarist (who you've never heard) needs 16 pedals or that effects are only ever heard by the person using them is, frankly, a lot of silly bollocks.

Edited April 25, 2012 by thisnameistaken

[xgsjx]

Unless you play something very bass orientated (like a bass solo or play in a DnB outfit), none of the audience is gonna come up & say they noticed the bassline, let alone any effects.

If you dropped the bassline, it would be noticed. Same with effects (unless you're using them wrong).

[chrismuzz]

I use 8 pedals, one of which is a tuner. I've never had anybody come up and compliment me on being in tune every song so does that mean I shouldn't use it?

[solo4652]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1335347705' post='1629519']
Yes, all this. It's important not to waste time trying to make people do what seems to be obvious to you, because they just won't. It's the same in the band as it is in a relationship!

I've just quit a band because I realised there was no way I was going to change people's attitudes towards learning new material and rehearsing. Can't be done! You have to find out early on what the score is and make a decision!
[/quote]

I think it's this point that's rattling round my brain. I work hard at keeping my equipment simple. The guitarist (and, increasingly the singers) seem to enjoy using effects for the hell of it, and then get into time-consuming trouble with equipment problems. "Why don't [i]you[/i] use some effects, Steve?" Because I don't feel I need to, I don't like the complexity they bring, I don't understand them and they seem to distract you guys a lot of the time. I'm not going to change my approach that much and neither are the rest of the band. So, I guess it's time for me to think about whether it's the right band for me.

This morning, I can't stop playing this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L4aeowB_YE[/media] Love the stripped-down, less-is-more vibe. It's so different from the loud, two over-driven effects-laden guitars, women singers using effects to sound like men (why?), can't hear yourself think, all-instruments-should-be-miced, let's play this no matter whether the audience might like it, approach I've been battling with recently.

Edited April 25, 2012 by solo4652

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1335349135' post='1629546']
I use 8 pedals, one of which is a tuner. I've never had anybody come up and compliment me on being in tune every song so does that mean I shouldn't use it? [/quote]

As I've said before, nobody needs a tuner. If people can tell you're out of tune then you're not using enough effects.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1335350157' post='1629572']
all-instruments-should-be-miced
[/quote]

[attachment=106033:Mouseorgan.jpg]

[cheddatom]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1335345140' post='1629452']
I'll reiterate my reasoning, not one person has ever said "I like the use of such and such a pedal on that track, it really added something".
[/quote]

It could be that the style of music you're playing, or the "sound" of your band doesn't lend itself to effects on the bass.

Personally, whatever I play bass in, I carve out a big space to use my pedals. I use them to add to the dynamic arrangement of songs, as well as produce sounds which are so effective, I actually do get compliments on my sound, or my effects (sadly never my playing )