Band Dilemna. How good...??

[JTUK]

I am known for being pretty picky in my number 1 band so I pointed out a few ways I thought we could up our game.

I have to say I was a bit surprised when I got 2 mails from 2 members who did not see the point I was making
and said essentially that as a predominately pub band that made x amount of £'s on a gig, they weren't going to
put any more effort in as we were as good as we needed to be.

I could have replied..that is why we are just a pub band but have resisted so far.

So, the question is, would you want to be as good as you could be with a reasonable amount of work, or would you say
you are good enough for the local standard and that will do...??

[rOB]

personally? I'd put as much work in as I could without compromising the rest of my life.

[JTUK]

Thats fair...but we rehearse maybe 6 times a year max. We are very tight, IMHO, but I just think all we needed to do..and said and much..is to book 3 hours whilst the singer is away
and focus on what we want to achieve with the track...and could in effect jam out certain sections on a brief of this direction..So we only needed to run through something once or so..decide that is what we are going for and then leave it open to run on the gig...

I suggested this approach as that is how a lot of the tracks evloved/came together pretty quickly. No re-formats of songs, just a discussion and run through to our collective liking and store it for the gigs.
As opposed to trying something on a gig and we don't like it..which sounds a more iffy way to go to me.

[BassBus]

You have your right to put your view forward, goes without saying. But at the end of the day what the whole band decides is more important. In our band, whenever any one member has tried to push the band in a direction they would like it to go they have always come off worst. Usually by leaving or being chucked out. Our band has always been bigger than any one member.

At the end of the day if the band is to survive everything has to be a collective decision. Sometimes your views will be accepted, sometimes not. Others might come here and say I'm talking tripe. I'll just have to accept that. That is what makes this such a useful forum.

[leschirons]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1335374135' post='1630165']
I am known for being pretty picky in my number 1 band so I pointed out a few ways I thought we could up our game.

I have to say I was a bit surprised when I got 2 mails from 2 members who did not see the point I was making
and said essentially that as a predominately pub band that made x amount of £'s on a gig, they weren't going to
put any more effort in as we were as good as we needed to be.

I could have replied..that is why we are just a pub band but have resisted so far.

So, the question is, would you want to be as good as you could be with a reasonable amount of work, or would you say
you are good enough for the local standard and that will do...??
[/quote]

Some band's "good enough" may well still make them the best band in the county. However, unless there is a universal want to improve and make it better still (no matter what level you're on and irrespective of whether you achieve it) It wouldn't work for me. So, I'm with you on this one.

[JTUK]

yes..have to say this is a wasted oppoertunity from my POV. I am not asking for that much in terms of time, I just want us to produce the tracks a bit more as to what works and what is pants..collectively,as some so called inspirational ideas on the hoof don't always come off...and they are the ones, I'd want to say...'don't go down that road etc'
Others, we could quite happily say..fine..lets have more of that.

Other case in point.. we have lost the plot on 'Superstition', IMV as it is supposed to be a dancey groove and we have lost that, I think.
If it isn't that, then there is no point to us playing it for the dancey sets...
By the same token, the much derided 'Mustang Sally' works great as both are throw-away numbers we have added belatedly to do a dance set at a function.
We couldn't have put less time in if we tried.. but one needs fixing from my POV..and the other is more than fine.

Arrgg it drives me mad..!!

I take the point about collective majority vote etc etc ... but this could be the beginning of the end of this band for me...
which would be a real shame as we have done pretty well in a short space of time...

I

[leschirons]

This is always a problem when different members have different expectations and maybe different reasons for actually being in a band. You'll either have to find like minded players or go with the flow.

[bobbass4k]

I'm kind of wrestling with this, just got a proto-band together, had a few jams and it's been really good, we're all on the same page musically and they all know their stuff. I'm looking to make serious effort of it, I want to practice, write and gig a lot, basically get as far as we can, so do the guitarists.

Only problem (problem seems a bit unfair but you know what I mean) is the drummer lives much further afield and has a 3 year old. He's said he's as committed as the rest of us but I have visions of having to cancel practices and turn down gigs because he can't make it. I feel pretty bad about having doubts because he has a kid, it seems kind of petty, but he's older than the rest of us too and has a full time job. We're so in tune musically though we want to try and make it work, but I have a sneaky feeling he's going to have to bail on us in a few months hopefully when gigging gets regular.

[discreet]

I almost feel it's my duty to be as good as I possibly can be, and I don't understand the 'that'll do' attitude that so many people seem to have. Why would you go to all the trouble of learning an instrument, buying gear, joining a band, organising rehearsals, getting gigs, promoting yourself, etc. and then fall at the final hurdle because you're too damn lazy and/or stupid to go the full nine yards? I really don't get it.

[Lozz196]

A band will always play to the ability of its weakest member - that being either their ability, or their attitude. For me, I always try to ensure I`m not that person in the second category, but have to accept I may be in the first.

I don`t understand the "that will do" mentality. I`d rather people came away from our gigs with a "wow" rather than an "ok". Unfortunately, there is usually one in every band who will only do just enough. And strangely, in my experience of bands over the years, it`s usually been the lead guitarist.

[BassTractor]

My guess is that pub congregations are not too different from the punters in church, so here goes:

As a former church organist and classical musician, my attitude was (almost?) that even my very best wasn't enough. During performances this attitude meant that I always hoped for that one listener who would "get it" more than the rest of the audience. I only needed one, but feel sure I sometimes reached nobody on that level.

However, having played in church services for decades, at one point I found out the punters were far happier with me when I played extremely easy stuff rather than Bach or romantic organ concerts. This led to a period of giving them what they liked. That automatically meant that I didn't stretch for the best possible performance (in my view), but just relaxed and gave them what they wanted.


bert

[gafbass02]

MyDesign has always been. 'good enough' simply from nessecity. It's less than a year old, and time was always scarce. So we hit the stage quickly, but we've found crowds just love the songs, they don't care about how right my chords are, how often the bassist drops a note or if I'm sneaking a cheeky peek at the lyrics. They're too busy dancing, I figure we'll get better through evolution. And we are

Edited April 25, 2012 by gafbass02

[ahpook]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1335374476' post='1630171']
personally? I'd put as much work in as I could without compromising the rest of my life.
[/quote]

plus the one.

[JTUK]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1335379912' post='1630288']
This is always a problem when different members have different expectations and maybe different reasons for actually being in a band. You'll either have to find like minded players or go with the flow.
[/quote]

I kind of picked all the guys and I found the drummer ( who wasn't known to me play-wise ) so in that sense, it was my band that was put together. I don't consider myself the leader though and have always wanted consensus
on everything and in the beginning everything was agreed and we were on the same page. Now in our third year, we are fragmenting in the choice or material and what gigs to take.
I maintain that pub gigs are the shop window and we should still do them ..altho we do pick and choose. The upside of this is that they are the better places to play - for us-..the downside, being that lhe less you get out and about, the longer a slog it is.
We seem to be in a transitional stage whereas we can charge good prices for ticketed affairs but not do quite so well at the pubs..which is VERY strange.
The playing in itself is not really the problem, it is the direction. If we intend to play better stages, we need to be just that bit up on our game as othewise it is the same show as a pub.

It is not as though I am talking about blocked rehearsals to get to a level... we just need a few hours to 'produce'; the tracks so we get a chance to showcase a bit more but I am in the minority of one...mostly.
I can't ask for silly commitment as 3 of the guys have bigger personal issues to deal with atm...but they will agree to rehearse an original set..??

The one glaring thing/problem with this band is that we play to an audience rather than for it... so picking popular numbers over playing numbers is getting the votes atm...
By 'playing numbers' I mean songs that fit the band rather than a very popular audience track

I've come to the conclusion that this is a type of power struggle between members but this is not open war-fare ..........yet..

And yep....probably thinking too much..!!

[JTUK]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1335374476' post='1630171']
personally? I'd put as much work in as I could without compromising the rest of my life.
[/quote]

I accept this..... as mentioned a few of the guys have varying problems at home etc..and I am the most understanding about this...
The one thing I never pick a fight with is coming between families... we never have flares ups about someone being late to a gig...if they are late, they let everyone know and we accept there is a last minute hitch..
The last thing you do is make someone choose ..in this situation, and to be fair, a band can be a pleasant distraction from some stuff...

I don't question the commitment either... if they say they can do something, they do it.. Keeness is not an issue either, the band is decent.

yep..reads like a power struggle to me..

[JTUK]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1335394532' post='1630575']
My guess is that pub congregations are not too different from the punters in church, so here goes:

As a former church organist and classical musician, my attitude was (almost?) that even my very best wasn't enough. During performances this attitude meant that I always hoped for that one listener who would "get it" more than the rest of the audience. I only needed one, but feel sure I sometimes reached nobody on that level.

However, having played in church services for decades, at one point I found out the punters were far happier with me when I played extremely easy stuff rather than Bach or romantic organ concerts. This led to a period of giving them what they liked. That automatically meant that I didn't stretch for the best possible performance (in my view), but just relaxed and gave them what they wanted.


bert
[/quote]

Yep accept that people are happy with what they know.... but we pick songs that we like 95% of the time over and above what the accepted typical set might be.
And if it doesn't sound too arrogant, we play the songs well..

Does crowd pleaser trump good playing...?? yep..it does..but I don't get that either :lol;

[BottomE]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1335374135' post='1630165']

So, the question is, would you want to be as good as you could be with a reasonable amount of work, or would you say
you are good enough for the local standard and that will do...??
[/quote]

I want us to be as good as we can and luckily am in a situation where most of the others feel/act the same.

[chris_b]

I had the same problem last Christmas. We're very good, audiences love us, but not good enough that promoters are beating a path to our door. We could easily be so much better but that will require more work.

I've still got the shrapnel wounds from when I suggested rehearsals, a new set and putting more effort in to the band!!

Apparently, and unfortunately, the band seems to have already reached it's peak. It's a good band to be playing in and I’ve got no thoughts about leaving, but I'm disappointed that we have reached the "top", a good 50% short of what we could have achieved with a little more effort.

Some people are easily satisfied or just plain lazy. I’ve always wanted to be in the “biggest pond”, even if I’m only a “little fish”. We all have limits, but it’s a shame when the cause is the lack of ambition of others.

Edited April 26, 2012 by chris_b

[Dropzone]

I play in a couple of pub bands. One is happy being average the others strives for perfection. I enjoy gigging with both but one is a jolly and the other is much more aspirational. It is unlikely you will get people to change, so I would recommend the softly softly approach.

Good luck ;-)

[markstuk]

I think it's about how you feel, since it's hard getting other band members to change their minds.. God help me, I'm in four bands at the moment, one an aspirational blues/funk/jazz monster, two others (with a crossover in personnel) in which we have a driven MD and great musos, but a lazy drummer who treats rehearsals as an excuse to shag his bird of the moment whilst he thinks his missus does not suspect anything is going on (the obvious solution is in discussion at the moment) , and a local band with guys I like, but two of whom don't want to practice enough/effectively or learn new stuff in a structured way..

I've come to the conclusion that without sensible self critical practice sessions and wanting to take on new material I'm not going to be happy.. And that makes my decision about continuing to invest time and effort in something that won't work for me...

Edited April 26, 2012 by markstuk

[discreet]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1335436234' post='1630954']
I've still got the shrapnel wounds from when I suggested rehearsals, a new set and putting more effort in to the band!!
[/quote]

?? Can someone explain to me why people ('musicians' particularly) are such farking iceholes??

Edited April 26, 2012 by discreet

[chris_b]

I put the response down to the fact that I hit a nerve. The singer, who is the gig getter, knows that I'm right but can't shift the drummer, who is co-founder and has to agree to everything. The frustration wouldn't do any good venting his way so it came in my direction.

The drummer is very, very good and isn't replaceable.

Ho hum! That's life!

[JTUK]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1335438972' post='1631041']
I think it's about how you feel, since it's hard getting other band members to change their minds.. God help me, I'm in four bands at the moment, one an aspirational blues/funk/jazz monster, two others (with a crossover in personnel) in which we have a driven MD and great musos, but a lazy drummer who treats rehearsals as an excuse to shag his bird of the moment whilst he thinks his missus does not suspect anything is going on (the obvious solution is in discussion at the moment) , and a local band with guys I like, but two of whom don't want to practice enough/effectively or learn new stuff in a structured way..

I've come to the conclusion that without sensible self critical practice sessions and wanting to take on new material I'm not going to be happy.. And that makes my decision about continuing to invest time and effort in something that won't work for me...
[/quote]

Yes..it is beginning to nag at me... I don't want to leave, or have to start again, but I feel this is the start of a slippery slope and its a question of how I try and bury that feeling...or will I be able
I do know I know the right people and think I can get the players together ...but with new people comes new 'baggage'

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1335442255' post='1631140']
I put the response down to the fact that I hit a nerve. The singer, who is the gig getter, knows that I'm right but can't shift the drummer, who is co-founder and has to agree to everything. The frustration wouldn't do any good venting his way so it came in my direction.

The drummer is very, very good and isn't replaceable.

Ho hum! That's life!
[/quote]

I understand there are also other priorities and also other bands in the loop, but I am not asking for the world in terms of time.
I think it is down to one member dictating what we will do...or what he will do and by default, what the band CAN do.
Other members can't really get too involved as they have stress elsewhere and this band is their one good release atm.. or so they say.

[brensabre79]

There's always going to be differences in a band.

JT, I know your pain and in the end we decided to replace the one person who wasn't on the same page in terms of getting the band to the best it can be. We've spent the last year getting the line up right and we have a good unit that everyone is happy with.
Latest dilemma is that some want to do more gigs than others, this is due to the fact that some have day jobs while others don't. Like I said, there's always going to be something. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you can live with it or not?

People will put the effort in sometimes when pushed, for a little while but I always remember what my dad said to me about working with others...
"You can only trust people to be themselves and you shouldn't expect any more or any less from them."