Fender and your opinions

[nash]

I was pondering in a Cardiff music shop today and I came away with the opinion that the line between Fender and Squier is becoming evermore blurred.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='nash' timestamp='1335468273' post='1631787']
I was pondering in a Cardiff music shop today and I came away with the opinion that the line between Fender and Squier is becoming evermore blurred.
[/quote]

You reasons?

I think Squier make some fairly decent basses at decent prices, and Fender make slightly better versions but with a heftier price tag. That's just me, but I ahvent owned a Squier bass and have sold on all the Fenders I ever owned.

[Lozz196]

For me, the US Standard Precision just can`t be beat. That said, the difference in quality between the Squier CV - MIM - US is not that much, and I certainly don`t think the US is worth 4 times that of the Squier CV. If pricing them myself, I`d prob go Squier £350, MIM £550, US £850.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='nash' timestamp='1335468273' post='1631787']
I was pondering in a Cardiff music shop today and I came away with the opinion that the line between Fender and Squier is becoming evermore blurred.
[/quote]
Which Fender and which Squier?

I recently had Squier CV that was every good, especially after I upgraded the electronics, but it wasn't as good as any of the Fenders I've had recent years.

[bubinga5]

ive played many a Fender.. Squires, MIM's, Custom Shops, USA's, MIJ/CIJ's... although i recognise Squires are great basses.. there IS a reason why the more expensive Fender are higher in price... of course this is down to personal opinion...and whether you want to pay the premium and think its worth it... i personally do...

imo... a non export USA pup Japanese Fender Jazz can beat ANY Fender..even Custom Shop.... they do naturally what Custom Shop do, and what USA standards should be like...

mmm.. there is a reason why USA Fender restrict the best of Japanese Fender... because there better and cheaper.. imo

Put some USA pups or some Fralins in a Squire and then you have a smokin Jazz bass

Edited April 26, 2012 by bubinga5

[icastle]

Depends who you talk to.

Squier owners rabidly pronounce that their Squier is better than any Fender they've ever played.
Fender owners defend their instruments equally vehemently.

I stick to my Ibanez and keep my head down...

[gelfin]

I'm surprised you could find both in a shop in Cardiff

[chris_b]

At the SE Bass Bash a couple of years ago I played 5 Fender 5 string Jazz basses. I didn't plug any in, just checked them out acoustically and the feel of them. There was only 1 that I would have paid money for.

Unfortunately at Fender prices that percentage is the wrong way around.

[nash]

I'm specifically talking about the new made in Korea fenders that average between 350-450 and the squiers that are around 250-350. I always think price wise the two brands should never meet.

Both have been bringing out some weird designs guitar and bass wise over the past 2 years. There's too many models.

[Doctor J]

I'd say they don't have enough models. Everything they do is based on two models which are designs over 50 years old really, with an increasingly scattergun approach to parts and colours and they call [i]that[/] a new model. It's sad. When you contrast the innovation and daring of the man himself against the FMIC sham just churning out the same old stuff in his name, cheaper made but with ever increasing price tags, it's a sorry state of affairs.

[MrTaff]

I've played the Squier VM & CV along with the MIM & MIA Fenders when I was looking for a P, the MIA was clearly the best but not enough different to justify the price tag. The VM & MIN pretty much felt & played the same but the VM with the Duncan Designed pickups sounded better, I didn't get on with the CV's sticky neck and small frets although it did sound good.

[BottomE]

Interesting stuff. I own US Fenders and Squiers from different eras. Have also built a BITSA precision.

I gotta say that having pulled a few of these guitars apart it is really difficult to see the difference in terms of build quality. I don't think US Fenders justify the premium in price - so why do people buy them?

They keep their value and will always be in demand. They also sound so damn good and sit in the mix so well.

[Conan]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1335518630' post='1632401']
But then when they do introduce something a little different. It doesn't sell so they take it out off production.
[/quote]

The man speaks the truth

[Norris]

My Indonesian Squire P/J sounds better than my US standard Jazz - both are reasonably modern, both have standard pups. I certainly think the gap in quality is closing, and it's difficult to justify the extra cost of a US bass. Wherever they come from you still need to check you aren't holding a dud - and unfortunately that includes US basses.

[MuckedUpFunkies]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1335524488' post='1632538']
They keep their value and will always be in demand. They also sound so damn good and sit in the mix so well.
[/quote]

Do they really keep their value now? More and more american fenders seem to be turning up on the for sale threads going for 600-800. Seems quite a drop for the £1400 price tag.

I went looking for a Fender as my main gigging bass a few years back and played a Squire VM jazz, Squire jazz, Mex standard, American deluxe and a 75RI jazz. I walked out with the mex! Found the playability was noticeably better with no real difference in the construction quality :S Such a shame that such a great company is loosing its touch.

[brensabre79]

I've got MIA, MIM, MIJ Fender and a CII Squier (my second).
The main difference is the quality of the parts, but the difference is nowhere near the same as the difference in price.
In terms of the playability and feel there's not much (if anything) between them, but whilst the hardware on the Squier is servicable it does not feel as solid as the Fender.
I haven't tried one of the new korean Fenders, but I suspect the difference will purely be in the quality of the components. The Fender ones being slightly better, with maybe a bit more human QC.
I said a while ago before MIK Fenders came out that it wouldn't be long before Fender realised the Squiers being produced these days were top notch and started sticking Fender decals on instead of Squier and charging a couple of hundred more. And here we are...

[alant]

I play a MIM Fender Jazz (96/97 I believe) and have done so for about 5 years. I often receive complimenatary comments about the sound I get from it (not for my playing inabilities though!). Last week a friend of our drummers brought along a MIA Fender Precision (about 2 years old I think) to one of our gigs and asked if I would mind playing it for a couple of numbers. He hadn't played it outside of the bedroom as far as I know.

I was keen to give it a go as I keep thinking about upgrading to a MIA Jazz. The Precision was set up with through the body stringing as well which was something I was particuarly keen to try out. Well, I was quite disappointed really. It didn't seem as punchy as my Jazz and apart from the obvious slight difference in neck width I was hard pushed to find any real difference. The tuners seemed a little more tighther but nothing else really seemed to justify the additional price tag.

Alan.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1335473802' post='1631949']
I'm surprised you could find both in a shop in Cardiff
[/quote]

They have shops?

[4 Strings]

Tbh it would have to be a blind test. I bet we'd all come up with non-conclusive results too.

The Squiers I've seen really look like well finished guitars using very nice pieces of wood, especially the natural finish models.

But do they have the 'magic'? Do Fenders? Is the magic in the transfer? Do people not want to admit there's no discernible difference in case they are considered to be stupid?

Not saying either way as I don't have experience of them both but it would have to be a blind test.

[BottomE]

The best construction of a Jazz bass that I have seen is on a Hamer Cruise Bass. In fact most of the best built Fender type basses i have tried have all been non-Fender All that said, my band mates are most happy when i take my US Jazz Bass even though its probably one of the worst built basses i have. Its a perception thing as much as anything.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1335518630' post='1632401']
But then when they do introduce something a little different. It doesn't sell so they take it out off production.

they only sell what people want and when it comes to Fender people only buy the same old designs..
[/quote]The Stingray and L2000 shift decent numbers to this day and are wisely regarded as classic designs, like their ancestors. If you put out something good and worthwhile which fills a space in the market (rather than tries to fit into an already crowded area), chances are it will sell.

Oh, wait, you mean the half-assed stuff FMIC put where you struggle to see who exactly they're trying to sell to?

I don't buy the argument that only Luddites buy Fender and so the big F must pander to their never changing whim. There is plenty of goodwill out there for Fender, that's clearly how they get away charging that kind of money for their US instruments but consider all their reissues - do you ever think you'll see the day there'll be an 80's or 90's reissue Jazz or P, like there are 60's and 70's? Why? Because they stopped being creative when FMIC bought the rights. They haven't [i]seriously[/i] tried to do anything new other than repackage the same old stuff (the odd sig model deviation excepted). What interesting and creative design have they released since 1983 other than the Roscoe Beck? They haven't sold, not because people aren't interested in something new with a Fender logo on it, it's because most of them have been pretty crap designs.

[bigjohn]

I've never owned a Squier, I would... I just never had. I was interested in that fretless VMJ that came up the other day.

I've played a couple in shops though and always thought they were ok, but nothing special. I like my hardware and my pickups. I'd end up upgrading it all.

Then again, I'm probably a sucker for the badge.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1335535666' post='1632813']
If you put out something good and worthwhile which fills a space in the market (rather than tries to fit into an already crowded area), chances are it will sell [/quote]

Except it doesn't. Well, not on the scale that Fender is accustomed to service. You're right that there are people out there who will embrace innovation. Just not enough of them.

Fact is, the interesting stuff comes from small operations catering to an equally small market. Which is great for everybody, particularly those who like Foderas and / or Morgans.

If there was money in spanky new stuff, Fender would be right across it. But they're not. And whatever we make think about their products, I don't think anyone could deny they've got their heads screwed on when it comes to the folding stuff.

The first rule of selling is find out what people want and then give it to them. Commercial history is littered with endeavours where someone had an idea that they themselves liked and tried to monetise it. Wrong way round.

What Fender have done very successfully is offer variations on a theme. Sometimes it's a bit dull ( "The New American Standard has cross-head saddle grub-screws rather than hex-slots!" ). Ho-hum.

Other times Mr Justin Norvel puts on his Mad hat and goes to work. Now this lad - who looks about 12 - cut his teeth on the Squier range and a good job he did too. Right up to the point where we were all saying how Squiers were more [i]interesting[/i] than Fender s and - ooh - look at that weird Telecaster and it's all such good value.

Now he's moved up (?) to the main brand, which is why we're getting this weird Marauder item. Which is made in China but sports a Fender logo, thus blurring the diff between Fender and Squier even further.

And that's where we came in, I think.

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Edited April 27, 2012 by skankdelvar

[joeystrange]

I currently have a Squier VM and Fender MIM (both Precisions) and, to be honest, there's not a lot between them.

They both play and feel almost identical.
The wood is different which makes the Fender feel a bit sturdier, as it's a bit heavier.
I think I preferred the Duncan Design pups in the Squier to the Fender stock pups too, although I swapped out the Fenders almost as soon as I got it.

I know the build quality of these basses can vary but I think I got a good VM and a good MIM.

[Sibob]

Have to say that I've never played a Jazz that has touched my USA one
I had one of the Squier CV's for a little while, and while they're really great basses for the money, it didn't come close to my US J.

What they're worth from a monetary point of view is totally subjective and completely influenced by your personal circumstances.

Si