Fender and your opinions

[Leon Transaxle]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2]I have to confess the following is based on conversations I have participated in rather than first hand experience of what they play like but I think there would be a blurring around the edges of the low end Fender/ upper end Squiers. Classic vibe Squiers and modern player Fenders are both made in China (my Squier is 'crafted in China') and there are suggestions it is within the same factory. There are enough differences between models in the two ranges to not allow direct comparison, although there maybe enough common ground to compare the VM and MP Jags (anyone done that?) [/size][/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2]I think this is more the area the OP was talking about. I am sure a good MIA Fender would knock the spots off a Squier. I have a CV 50s P and a MIM P Special and quality-wise there doesn't seen to be much, if anything in it. And there s nothing shoddy about the P Specia[/size][/font][size=2]l.[/size][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2] [/size][/font]

[rogerstodge]

At least you lot can pick & choose, im a lefty and there aint many about

[The Dark Lord]

Aint no blurry line to me. Fender American Standard. Plug in, rock. Nothing else is relevant.

[gjones]

This is why. There is no craftsmanship in making a Squire. You just have to have the hardware.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7aQuofMkc[/media]

Edited May 4, 2012 by gjones

[lurksalot]

I am sorry , but merely hearing the the name Fender , kind of imparts the dreaded word of snobbery to my ears , a bit like M&S they do some great stuff but also some very overpriced middle of the road stuff , but you pay for the name.
Our drummer brought in a bass for me to have a look at that he was thinking of buying for his lad, wrong neck on the wrong body , buzz every fret , dodgy socket , no access to the truss rod adjuster it just felt wrong . the dealer was selling to sticks for £200 but could sell it for £800 all day . I suggested taking it back and saying no thanks , but guitarist reckoned it was a bargain , but he is a Fender snob and will have nothing said against the name on the headstock , irrelevant of the planks it was printed on.
I don't argue that there are a lot of experienced Fender users on here that really know there stuff , and maybe I just haven't found [b]that [/b]Fender to fall in love with , but then I haven't really been inspired to go look for it either.

[lurksalot]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1336165907' post='1642132']
This is why. There is no craftsmanship in making a Squire. You just have to have the hardware.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7aQuofMkc[/media]
[/quote]
what about the craftsmanship in making the machines and the software ?

[Lozz196]

I`m yet to play a Fender Precision that I don`t like, however some have been fine, and some have been amazing - my 77 being the best Precision (to me) that I`ve ever laid hands on. Closely followed by Clarkys old Pino Palladino Custom Shop Signature P, and a Mex Road Worn P. All different ranges.

[gjones]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336209675' post='1642453']
does Fender not use CNC

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERV5E5uhLAM[/media]

1 min in. I guess their CNCs inject extra craftmanship or something doing them 4 at a time?
[/quote]

I've noticed that Fender are starting to make a lot of their guitars and basses in the far east and actually putting the Fender logo on them, probably because the quality is so high now. How long will people be prepared to pay such high prices for an American built product when they make them just as good for half the price elswhere.

I should also have added that there's no craftsmanship in making a Fender either. It's just a factory process like making kitchen units or whatever. The cost of the finished guitar is dependant on where in the world it's made. Costs are higher in California and lower in Indonesia/China/Thailand etc. Don't get me started on globalisation I'm not a big fan.

Edited May 5, 2012 by gjones

[gjones]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1336163003' post='1642082']
Aint no blurry line to me. Fender American Standard. Plug in, rock. Nothing else is relevant.
[/quote]

I agree. And having owned 4 very nice Japanese Fenders I would have traded them in for a US one at the drop of a hat. Not necessarily because they are any better in terms of quality but because Fenders are American Rock 'N' Roll icons and I'm a hopeless romantic.

[Monckyman]

I thought MIAs were whittled by moonshine crazed Oshkosh wearing sockless mutants with Confedaracy tattoos?
I mean, that`s what we`re paying for right?
Right??

[jackhammer]

I have to say. From a price perspective, very disappointed with every MIA I've ever played, no different to a squeir vm, cv, or even a MIM Imo. But maybe that's because deep down I knew I couldn't afford it, resentful..

[Sean]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1336211713' post='1642488']
I thought MIAs were whittled by moonshine crazed Oshkosh wearing sockless mutants with Confedaracy tattoos?
I mean, that`s what we`re paying for right?
Right??
[/quote]

Exactly what I thought until that fateful day when someone opened my eyes and put me straight and then my once beloved icon got traded on BassWorld (yes, folks, I'm that old!) for something far eastern

I have played a few absolutely fantastic US Fenders but I've played a hell of a lot of US Fenders to find those fantastic few. I've never played a bad Jap Fender and I've always been impressed with Squiers that I've played although being such a pathetic pedant I can't bring myself to own any brand that is misspelled more times than it's not

Generally, try before you buy with Fender and Squier but saying that I would not hesitate to buy a Jap Fender without trying it first.

[icastle]

From a purely CNC perspective, it makes absolutely no difference whether a piece of wood is shaped in the US, Mexico or Barnsley - that's the whole point of CNC, it's a repeatable process.

[LukeFRC]

Well I would be willing to pit my p bass against any p bass made by fender since 1980 and know it would come out favourably. Its not a regular squirrel though
Back OT if you sent me out to get a p or jazz and hadn't given me enough for the american vintage range then i think that the Mexican classic range and some new pickups could be a winner. Though there's little in the squirrel range that couldn't be sorted out with a bit of work.
For the money though the tanglewood overwater passive jazz thing is awesome in a way fender isnt

[Marvin]

I desperately wanted a Fender P Bass a few months ago. Just GASing for one, I wanted that F on the headstock blah blah blah.

I've tried a few MIM, as there in my budget, and was disappointed. Not only by the instrument but disappointed that I was disappointed. Considering a new MIM is in the region of £450, I just couldn't see what I would be getting over my current bass that cost almost half that new.

[Marvin]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336295398' post='1643533']
you answered your own question
[/quote]

£230 for a Fender decal did seem slightly steep

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

What makes a bass perceivable better than another in comparison has a lot to do with the hardware used (are squire affinity basses still fitted with those nasty enclosed tuners?) and finishing - I rolled the fingerboard edge of my squire ss jag bass and it plays much better than stock. My Japanese mustang has better hardware as standard than the much cheaper squier, but I also had to roll the fingerboard edge & make a new wiring harness with cts pots & switchcraft jack to replace the stock bits.

[CBbass]

I pay for whichever model has the closest spec I want. When I buy a bass I look at pretty much every part, I was thinking of a MiM model or USA but the USA simply had what I wanted. I have to admit Japan on the whole are very good at making instruments, Fender Japan get's all the cool new models too .

[Count Bassy]

whoops, double post

Edited May 7, 2012 by Count Bassy

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1336349551' post='1644448']
+1 to this, and any half decent CNC machine is potentially far more accurate and repeatable than any person could hope to be.
[/quote]

[JimBobTTD]

It has been a while since I bothered picking up a Fender, but I recall the Squier feeling cheaper compared to the real deal. The wood seemed to be flimsier, the parts nasty and so on. The MIM was better by a country mile. But I picked up a Squier tele bass the other day which was very nice indeed, so things might be changing.

What I wish is that Fender would do five string models to vintage spec. I'd love a 62P five string. Or a 57 style Jazz V. Well...they've released every possible model bar them, so they should be coming soon.

[jay]

I own a squier VMJ fretless and an American deluxe P. The American feels and sounds a lot better imo and the price was justified second hand compared to the squier. But I couldn't believe how bad the pots on it where, they were wonky and one was totally shot and had to be replaced. The squier is a great bass, but doesn't feel as solid to play, although it's not far behind. Also, compared to the Squier P I got 10 years ago when I started playing, the VM is a dream! Looking back, my old squier was the biggest piece of junk i have ever laid hands on bass wise.

How do CIJ and the older 90's made in Japan Fenders hold up against the American models? Ive never had the chance to play one.

[Twigman]

If Fender stuck Jazz necks on Precision bodies I'd be more inclined to get one.
That's why I built a Warmoth instead.

[KevB]

I have two US Fenders from around 2004 (Jazz S1 and an active P deluxe with extra bridge PU);
[IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c307/KevB64/IMG_0938.jpg[/IMG]
I also have a basic Squier P special from around 2008 which was bought brand new for less than £200 through Thomann. The US basses were both bought used via ebay. Definitely a higher quality finish on the US basses but the Squier was a fraction of the price. Having said that the neck is fine on the Squier and is decently put together. The Pu's are not in the same league as the US basses but I could easily buy good quality replacements and still save money. However there is no doubt I'd get a bigger % of my money back from the S/H US fenders than I would from the Squier even though it has had only 1 careful owner (me). I think the higher value instruments are a bit like cars, there's a big devaluing from 1st to 2nd owner but after that they find a level of value which doesn't change too much.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1336214691' post='1642552']
...I can't bring myself to own any brand that is misspelled more times than it's not
[/quote]

It's named after Mr Squier, the originator of a strings company bought by Fender even before CBS bought Fender.

He's spelled his name correctly.