Joodee/yamaki acoustic guitar help

[Bucket Head]

Hey guys bought this recently and am trying to find out more about it and the make. just wondering if anyone knows much about this maker and age and so on.

its a 12 string acoustic guitar says on the inside label that its made by part of the YAMAKI musical instrument company and by JOODEE

also says MADE IN JAPAN on the back of the neck

hope these pics help.

cheers for looking, Thanks in advance!!!!

[leftybassman392]

Tricky. I've done a bit of searching, and they seem to be pretty elusive. As far as I can tell Yamaki and Joodee were brand names for the Dyna Gakki company in Japan (although the presence of both names on the label is a bit confusing). The company was active during the 70's and 80's so that gives you a ballpark for the age of your guitar. I haven't been able to identify a direct match from the model number although some visually similar (though not identical) models - including a 12-string - bearing the Yamaki name are here:

[url="http://www.guitar-museum.com/search.php?q=yamaki&forsale=0"]http://www.guitar-mu...amaki&forsale=0[/url]

A complication is that there was another company, T and Joodee, active at the time. They seem to have made upmarket clones of Fender and Gibson models along the lines of Tokai. I'm pretty sure that this guitar is not one of theirs.

The impression I get is that they were well thought of by owners at the time, and seem to be collectable as a result. More and if possible better pictures (no offence intended) would help, but it looks well made and in good condition. Any value offered at this point would be a guess, but at least you now have something to go on. You may want to contact the Guitar Museum directly.

Hope this helps.

Edited May 5, 2012 by leftybassman392

[clarkpegasus4001]

I don't know about your particular model but Joodee/Yamaki were owned by Daion guitars. if you check them out you might find a bit more info. I've seen some really nice Joodee Les Paul lookalikes that have their fans, (Strats too), in fact i almost bought one myself a while back. I'm not so sure about the acoustics though. Your acoustic looks like a mid/late 70's model. Daion guitars went out of business in 1984.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='clarkpegasus4001' timestamp='1336221655' post='1642690']
I don't know about your particular model but Joodee/Yamaki were owned by Daion guitars. if you check them out you might find a bit more info. I've seen some really nice Joodee Les Paul lookalikes that have their fans, (Strats too), in fact i almost bought one myself a while back. I'm not so sure about the acoustics though. Your acoustic looks like a mid/late 70's model. Daion guitars went out of business in 1984.
[/quote]

Indeed, owned by Daion but actually made by Dyna Gakki (who are apparently still in business - apologies for the error).

Here's another link that might help: [url="http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-7110045806669982%3A8gxi6y-neqv&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=joodee#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=joodee&gsc.page=1"]http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-7110045806669982%3A8gxi6y-neqv&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=joodee#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=joodee&gsc.page=1[/url]

[leftybassman392]

Another update - after further research, it appears that details of manufacture, ownership and other such stuff is somewhat disputed. I have found a number of websites giving conflicting information - the one thing they all have in common, however, is that they all claim to have the definitive answer! Yamaki, Daion and Dyna Gakki (plus a couple of others) all sit somewhere in the mix...

What does seem to be getting clearer is that the guitar was most likely made early - mid 70's.

I'm going to take a break now so that someone else can take over if that's ok, 'cos my head is spinning!

[noelk27]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1336220919' post='1642674']Yamaki and Joodee were brand names for the Dyna Gakki company in Japan [/quote]
[quote name='clarkpegasus4001' timestamp='1336221655' post='1642690']Joodee/Yamaki were owned by Daion guitars[/quote]

This version of the Joodee mark, as well as the Daion mark, were owned by Yamaki. Yamaki was founded by Kazuyuki and Hirotsuga Teradaira in the 60s, with the Joodee and Daion marks debuting in the 70s. Yamaki engaged Dyna and Terada, as well as Matsumoku, to build for it, as well as establishing its own factory facility.

Originally under the Yamaki mark, later under the Joodee mark, Yamaki offered an extensive range of acoustic guitars. Ranges included YW, YM, YB in the Year, Mugen and Max variants. The top of the range YM2000-12 would have set you back Y200,000, whereas your YW-30M-12 was the bottom of the YW range, retailing for Y30,000. (The top of the range YW-100M-12 retailed for Y100,000.) The YW-30M-12 featured nataoh laminate timbers back and sides, and a laminate top.

As for your Joodee branded YW series acoustic, this is a later version of the Yamaki YW series carcass. The switch from branding the carcass as Yamaki to Joodee occurred when production switched from Dyna to one of Yamaki's other suppliers, in the early 80s. That the label also features the Daion "tuning fork" logo, I'd place your acoustic between '82 and '84, but if you forward a note of the serial this can be dated more accurately.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1336225511' post='1642781']
This version of the Joodee mark, as well as the Daion mark, were owned by Yamaki. Yamaki was founded by Kazuyuki and Hirotsuga Teradaira in the 60s, with the Joodee and Daion marks debuting in the 70s. Yamaki engaged Dyna and Terada, as well as Matsumoku, to build for it, as well as establishing its own factory facility.

Originally under the Yamaki mark, later under the Joodee mark, Yamaki offered an extensive range of acoustic guitars. Ranges included YW, YM, YB in the Year, Mugen and Max variants. The top of the range YM2000-12 would have set you back Y200,000, whereas your YW-30M-12 was the bottom of the YW range, retailing for Y30,000. (The top of the range YW-100M-12 retailed for Y100,000.) The YW-30M-12 featured nataoh laminate timbers back and sides, and a laminate top.

As for your Joodee branded YW series acoustic, this is a later version of the Yamaki YW series carcass. The switch from branding the carcass as Yamaki to Joodee occurred when production switched from Dyna to one of Yamaki's other suppliers, in the early 80s. That the label also features the Daion "tuning fork" logo, I'd place your acoustic between '82 and '84, but if you forward a note of the serial this can be dated more accurately.
[/quote]

I humbly bow in the face of superior knowledge. Just out of interest (and because I spent a couple of hours chasing my tail around the internet), is there somewhere more details can be found?

[Bucket Head]

Woahhhh only posted this morning and alredy all this info. thanks alot guys much appreciated, sounds like you all were trawling the internets for ages thanks.

lefty bass cheers for all the links and stuff man

noel the serial number and model number is.....YW-30M 106407. thanks for all that info aswell, i dont suppose you could answer the question of price if i were to sell this at some point?

thanks again guys !!!

[noelk27]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1336227826' post='1642830']Just out of interest (and because I spent a couple of hours chasing my tail around the internet), is there somewhere more details can be found?[/quote]

No one specific site. There are some good sources out there, but the best ones for Daion and Yamaki are domestic Japanese, with no English language translations. Saying that, my comments would best be characterised as accumulated knowledge. Which is why I misstated that Kazuyuki and Hirotsuga Teradaira set up Yamaki. It was, in fact, Kazuyuki and Yasuyuki Teradaira (Hirotsuga joining much later, as designer). Kazuyuki and Yasuyuki had previously worked together, at Hayashi Gakki, before Yasuyuki struck out in '62 to set up his own holding company, Daion (primarily carrying on business as a musical instrument distributor and wholesaler). In '67 Kazuyuki left Hayashi and joined Yasuyuki to head up Daion's attempt to enter the guitar manufacturing market, in the process creating the Yamaki mark. initially, Yamaki was a division of Daion, but would later be spun off as Yamaki Gakki. This is perhaps where the confusion arises, people believing that the Daion guitar brand owned and operated Yamaki, although the Daion mark would not be created for almost a decade. With Kazuyuki onboard Daion started exporting ranges of nylon- and steel-strung Yamaki-branded guitars outside of Asia. Although well-respected, Daion failed to secure significant market share with these guitars, and in the late '70s redesigned and rebranding its ranges under the Daion mark. These Daion mark steel-strung guitars, as well as the electric guitars, were designed by Hirotsuga. For those unfamiliar with Hirotsuga's work, he was also heavily involved in delivering the "Wing" series for Washburn in the late '70s. By this point in time Yamaki Gakki had its own full manufacturing facilities and a growing reputation for producing high-quality instruments, often being engaged by other Japanese manufacturers to build on their behalf.

[leftybassman392]

I have about a million questions at this point, but will restrict myself to a couple:-

Would it be fair to say that Jeedoo was a calculated attempt to break into western markets? The reason I ask this is that this thread marks the first I have heard of any of these companies or brands, and I used to pride myself that I had at least some knowledge of the rise of the Japanese as a world force in guitar manufacture (specifically through companies like FujiGen, Tokai and Takamine).

Following on from that, would it also be fair to view the Teradaira family as an important link in the development of the Japanese guitar industry? (They do seem to have been associated with brands much more familiar - to my ear at least - such as Washburn.)

From my searches I got the distinct impression that their solidbody instruments were rather more successful than their acoustics. In fact I would go so far as to say that Takamine were probably the first Japanese company to really crack the upmarket steel-stringed acoustic guitar. I have an EN10L from around the mid 90's and it is a truly superb instrument with an excellent preamp - and at a little under £800 better to my hands than a massively more expensive Fylde that I could have had at the time. I'd value your thoughts on that as well.

Edited May 5, 2012 by leftybassman392

[noelk27]

Some of what you're asking requires making qualitative judgments, a significant factor in which is personal preference, so, may go unanswered. For instance, does Takamine make a better acoustic guitar than, say, Yamaha. If you asked me to compare the top of the range from both makers, in the late '70s, I'd almost certainly have said that Yamaha was the leader of these two makers. Where Takamine's range topped out at circa Y200,000 you'd have had to find another Y180,000 to get close to the top of Yamaha's range (the likes of an L53 costing Y380,000). Of course, bare numbers don't tell any kind of story, and you'd have to wonder how many people went to the trouble of sourcing a made to order L series Yamaha, instead opting for the readymade FG or CJ or N series guitars. Takamine, though, as a comparator, or benchmark, causes me a few issues. Yes, Kaman, the North American representation for the brand, did an amazing job of creating a history and sense of legacy for a mark that came into existence in the mid '60s, although Ohsone had been formed in '59, but the early reliance on purchased endorsement skews the overall picture, in my opinion.

As for Yamaki, and its range of steel-strung guitars, the eventual use of the Joodee mark to replace the Yamaki mark would have been to differentiate the traditionalist Yamaki designs from the modernist Daion ones. If anything, the creation of the Daion range was an attempt to attain a larger share of the market, given that the time was characterised by innovation, from makers such as Ovation, and in addition to the styling Daion guitars featured some innovation approaches to construction and electronics. Unfortunately, for Yamaki, the downturn in the world economy and the uncompetitive nature of the Yen against other currencies made its products comparatively expensive, and relatively unsuccessful.

For some context, generally speaking, we'd also have to turn our attention to other Japanese brands, some of which have declined in significance, such as Suzuki, and others that have grown, such as Yairi. Those two names share a history, in that brothers Sadao and Giichi Yairi both apprenticed at Suzuki Violin Co, before establishing their own marks at the start of the '30s, Sada and Yairi respectively. While Giichi started making classical guitars alongside violins from the inception of his mark, Sadao spent his early years making violins before turning to making steel-strung guitars in the late '30s (mostly copies of Martin designs). Giichi was subsequently joined by his son, Kazuo, while Sadao was joined by his son, Hiroshi. In the '40s Sadao and Giichi merged their respective companies, creating Yairi and Sons, which became Yairi Gakki after Giichi had retired. Subsequently Kazuo left Yairi Gakki in the early '50s, and an agreement was reached to retire that name, uncle and nephew agreeing to trade as S Yairi and K Yairi respectively; names, no doubt, now familiar to many of today's acoustic guitar players. Saying that, more players may be aware of the K Yairi mark through the Alvarez Yairi name.

Would it be fair to say that the Yairi family has had a greater impact, say, than the Teradaira family, I'd suggest it's impossible to say. The Teradaira family attempted to cover multiple price/quality points, following the Yamaha example, whereas the Yairi family operated closer to the Takamine example (although predating that brand) and concentrating on high-end products and certain geographies. But as to whether the Yairi or Teradaira family (as designers and manufacturers), or Yojiro Takabayashi or Nobuaki Hayashi (as designers and engineers), or Ryoji Matsuoka or Shiro Arai (as manufactures and distributors) has been more important to the history of guitar design, production and distribution in and outside of Japan would be impossible to say.

Edited May 11, 2012 by noelk27

[leftybassman392]

Many thanks for taking the time to respond Noel. I am grateful. Time for me to do a bit of research methinks.

As an afterthought have you ever published or considered publishing on this subject (one about which you clearly have considerable depth of knowledge)? I know it would be a fairly arcane topic for most people, but all the same... I should add that I have no links or contacts within the publishing industry, so having nothing to gain by suggesting it. It would just be a shame not to make it available to others is all I'm thinking.

Edited May 11, 2012 by leftybassman392

[Bucket Head]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1336763080' post='1650827']
Many thanks for taking the time to respond Noel. I am grateful. Time for me to do a bit of research methinks.

As an afterthought have you ever published or considered publishing on this subject (one about which you clearly have considerable depth of knowledge)? I know it would be a fairly arcane topic for most people, but all the same... I should add that I have no links or contacts within the publishing industry, so having nothing to gain by suggesting it. It would just be a shame not to make it available to others is all I'm thinking.
[/quote]

agreed man, thats some knowledge you got there noel and all my research on the internet came up blank pretty much. could be a good idea maybe publishing some of this!



thanks for all the info tho dude, much appreciated man

thanks again leftybass aswell for all ur time an shizzle