Precision - Legit?

[the boy]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336752557' post='1650552']


I think you can.
It's like the difference between someone having the occasional puff of herbal and dealing smack. [b]You'd[/b] have them both locked up in irons because [b]you[/b] can't differentiate between them.

Hang on, are you saying you had a Fender labelled bass that wasn't a Fender? ..... Ooh methinks [color=#000000]he[/color] doth [color=#000000]protest too much[/color].

If Howard built Discreet's bass (I've never heard of it until now) then it's probably better than a fecking fender in the first place so they will be getting themselves a fecking bargain.

Ebay dude [b]is[/b] making a bob... quite literally... that's why I don't understand why he's bothering. He'd make it worth his while by saying they were Fenders and charging appropriately - but he's not.
[/quote]
I'm confused who's on crack?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1336753230' post='1650563']
I'm confused who's on crack?
[/quote]
I am.
I was tee-total at the start of this thread.

[The Bass Doc]

As I've been mentioned in this thread I thought I should give my take on the debate about decals.

Fitting a decal to a non-Fender bass with the [i]express intent[/i] of selling it to an unsuspecting buyer, it is to be frowned upon. The fact is these decals are 'out there' so I could perhaps understand some vitriol being directed towards the printers thereof.

As it happens, Fender themselves produced decals as an official spare part in the 70's ( I have one to prove it) until some bright spark in the company pointed out that people were fitting them to copies...duh.

Now It would be safe to assume that Fender spares are a lucrative part of their business and no-one could possibly imagine that these are only sold to replace items on original models so Fender themselves are indirectly benefitting from the custom build trade.

The fact that Fender license Allparts, WD, Mighty Mite et al suggests to me at any rate that Fender have adopted the attitude that 'If we can't stop them let them do it and charge money'.

In the case of Discreet's bass I used official USA Fender parts for the bridge, control plate, knobs, pots as well as the Allparts 'Licensed by Fender' neck. So compared to say a Squier it has more in common with the 'real thing'.

The bass in question is built to a high standard and, should Discreet ever sell it, anyone buying at what would be a relatively high price really should be able to do their homework whereupon the dirty great stamp burned into the heel of the neck would be revealed as an Allparts item. Also the specs used do not coincide with a stock model Fender so it should be fairly obvious to a prospective buyer.

I'm sure Discreet himself will give full disclosure as and when any sale may happen and, ok, I appreciate that no-one can budget for what subsequent owners may try on, but I maintain it's not on the same level as re-badging a Squier.

Compare my effort to allow full disclosure of the Allparts brand (literally burned in) to examples where serial numbers are used, artificial distress wear imposed and (with apologies to Rick's Fine '58) pencilled dates are added. Much more likely to fool someone one day.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336753237' post='1650564']
yip I had a bass Labeled as a Fender. Cost me £5 a week for I can't remember for how long. I never implied it was to anyone if anything I down playedthe sticker to many peoplewho were convinced it was real. I always thought the Hohner neck plate and Made in Korea was a give away personally.
...[/quote]

Seeing as we are declaring our vested interests.

I once took this bass...



... and turned it into this bass (same neck and body) and yes that's a Fender decal....



I'm ready for my punishment.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1336756248' post='1650658']
...Compare my effort to allow full disclosure of the Allparts brand (literally burned in) to examples where serial numbers are used, artificial distress wear imposed and (with apologies to Rick's Fine '58) pencilled dates are added. Much more likely to fool someone one day.
[/quote]

Haha I'm surprised this one hadn't been mentioned before now. I'm saying nowt.

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336759358' post='1650748']
I find it odd though you find the bass you built with licensed parts more Fender than a bass commissioned and sold by them. It's a bit like saying because that bass used all Americian parts and licensed parts is more Fender than the new Chinese Modern players.
[/quote]

It's certainly got more in common with Fender USA than anything coming from the far east.

I consider it important to clarify that I was not selling the bass as something it isn't (just as some opinions here point out about the ad featured in the OP) and I would take seriously any accusation that a fraud has been committed.

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336763292' post='1650832'].
Going even further off topic. Any Idea when Fender stopped selling decals? Love to know where mine came from. Guitar was built in 88. But I had it before ebay and it was worse for wear then. I can't see anyone in theearly nineties going to the effort with a printer.
[/quote]

I wish I could remember exactly but I don't believe the Fender decals which were sold legit in the 70's lasted any more than a couple of years. They were of the 'iron-on' type and accordingly printed back-to-front. If I can find mine in the rather chaotic workshop I'll be able to quote the official part no.

Of course I do believe that Fender will still sell ones currently on a one-off basis but the buyer has to prove it's for a genuine case with photographic proof etc.

[karlfer]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336756476' post='1650664']
Seeing as we are declaring our vested interests.

I once took this bass...



... and turned it into this bass (same neck and body) and yes that's a Fender decal....



I'm ready for my punishment.
[/quote]

I'm on Sabbatical from posting (bad feedback issue) but I'm moved to say, "you guys have the debate, I'm in love with something blue white and maple and I don't care who's illegitimate offspring it is"

[the boy]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336755121' post='1650623']

I am.
I was tee-total at the start of this thread.
[/quote]
Lol.

[the boy]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1336761914' post='1650801']


It's certainly got more in common with Fender USA than anything coming from the far east.

I consider it important to clarify that I was not selling the bass as something it isn't (just as some opinions here point out about the ad featured in the OP) and I would take seriously any accusation that a fraud has been committed.
[/quote]
And so you should sir. I have no doubt that you are a man of utmost integrity. The mere suggestion that personal modifying of a headstock is committing a fraud is utterly unacceptable. But some people think they can say what they like around here. However if you say anything back to them it's all tears in the solder pot.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1336765351' post='1650870']
I'm on Sabbatical from posting (bad feedback issue) but I'm moved to say, "you guys have the debate, I'm in love with something blue white and maple and I don't care who's illegitimate offspring it is"
[/quote]

You're not the only one to have fallen for Betty's charms.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1336756248' post='1650658']
Compare my effort to allow full disclosure of the Allparts brand (literally burned in) to examples where serial numbers are used, artificial distress wear imposed and (with apologies to Rick's Fine '58) pencilled dates are added. Much more likely to fool someone one day.
[/quote]

Interesting thread, the intelligent parts anyway!

Do people really think the added neck date will fool anyone. I know my onions when it comes to vintage Fenders, and I don't know anyone that I have ever met, who, when spending £10k+ on a bass, would be fooled by that?? There's 1001 reasons why my replica bass isn't a genuine £10k bass, and no-one would be fooled, no-one, or try and pretend otherwise. I made it as a replica to my own original, for my own use. Sadly its time to move it on. The neck is original Fender, so no issue there regarding the decal. Personally, I've never added a Fender decal to something that wasn't a Fender, I have however, removed a Fender decal, refinished and aged a neck, and re-applied a Fender decal, which I don't believe is a crime, even on basschat?

I think people get far too hung up on stuff like this. I'm not pretending its something it isn't, much like the seller of the squier referenced in the OP. I have seen, as we all have, some pretty terrible copies and re-badged things around though, which, right or wrong is gonna happen, thats life....sadly. Fake watches, fake clothes, fake guitars, been going on for yonks, doesn't make it right though. It's also, to me anyway, different if someone's making a replica, and clearly advertising it as a replica, to someone blatantly trying to mislead though.

Oh, and for the record, the first 'Squier' guitars, were branded as 'Fender-Squier Series' instruments in April 1982, not 'Squier by Fender', that came much later.

[Rick's Fine '52]

Oh, and another thing, Bravewood for example, are widely regarded and highly prized instruments, to which I've never heard a bad word or criticism (They are stunning replica's, no doubt), but they were all hand made, with Fender decals added, I know, I've seen them, many of us have. They were never pictured with the decals, for copyright reasons on the Bravewood site, but they were all shipped to their customers with them applied, because that's what the customers wanted. No different to some of the sellers people are criticising. These are actually ethically worse though, because many that I've seen [i]could[/i] be passed off as originals, and probably have been?!!

[guildbass]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336585110' post='1648017']
I don't care what he's doing with these Squiers per se but he isn't exactly squeaky clean folks ... I've spotted a bit of nefarious selling/buying activity - namely a size 10 lady with a penchant for spray tan and hair extensions who likes to buy Squire basses off him every now and then (two in one day once) and leave glowing feedback....

... Maybe she puts Squier decals on them and sells them back to ebay.
[/quote] Suzi Quattro?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336773639' post='1651029']
Oh, and another thing, Bravewood for example, ...... These are actually ethically worse though, because many that I've seen [i]could[/i] be passed off as originals, and probably have been?!!
[/quote]

Pot... kettle... black?

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336560487' post='1647394']
[size=3][font=Verdana][color=#000000]... Great time and expense was spent sourcing period correct parts, to make it as authentic looking, feeling, and playing, as possible....[/color][/font]

...[font=Verdana][color=#000000] The body is unknown origin, but matches Fender dimensions perfectly, and the 3-tone is excellent, much better than most copies[font=Arial][color=#222222] ...[/color][/font][/color][/font][/size]

[size=3]... [font=Verdana][color=#000000]I also have a Fender Custom Shop tweed case, with a repro copy of the 1957-8 Catalog; 1958-9 Catalog; 1957-8 Pricelist; Swing tags, and lead. [font=Arial][color=#222222]...[/color][/font][/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Verdana][color=#000000].... every effort has been made to make it as ‘correct’ as possible, including the raised A pickups ...[/color][/font][/size]


[/quote]

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1336774333' post='1651036']
Suzi Quattro?
[/quote]

Holy smokes you are right... I never noticed her address on ebay... Devil Gate Drive.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336775715' post='1651051']
Pot... kettle... black?
[/quote]

Not at all, you've missed my point entirely. I even referenced my bass in my post.

I said, that Bravewoods could be passed off as the real thing, because they are that good.

Mine is not, it has repro catalogs (All reprinted copies of these, contain the printed type "Vintage reissue catalog by Vintage Press' typed inside, so you'd have to be blind not to see this, and extremely dumb to try and sell it as original, as it would be returned within 5 seconds. Mine is advertised as a replica, quite clearly, and wouldn't fool anyone spending £10k. Bravewoods could, because they [i]are[/i] that good.

Odd thing to say??

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336775715' post='1651051']
Pot... kettle... black?
[/quote]

Anyway, Bravewood are a company, making money out of making replica guitars (Very well I might add), mine is a one-off replica that i made for myself, and is advertised as such.

Point.....missed......yes.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336776134' post='1651059']
Not at all, you've missed my point entirely. I even referenced my bass in my post.

I said, that Bravewoods could be passed off as the real thing, because they are that good.

Mine is not, it has repro catalogs (All reprinted copies of these, contain the printed type "Vintage reissue catalog by Vintage Press' typed inside, so you'd have to be blind not to see this, and extremely dumb to try and sell it as original, as it would be returned within 5 seconds. Mine is advertised as a replica, quite clearly, and wouldn't fool anyone spending £10k. Bravewoods could, because they [i]are[/i] that good.

Odd thing to say??
[/quote]

I didn't miss any point mate. I can read.
An expert such as yourself will spot it in seconds but I think it's fair to say that a decent percentage of Basschaters will not be able to tell that yours is not genuine even if they held it in their own hands.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776445' post='1651068']
I didn't miss any point mate. I can read.
An expert such as yourself will spot it in seconds but I think it's fair to say that a decent percentage of Basschaters will not be able to tell that yours is not genuine even if they held it in their own hands.
[/quote]

Maybe, but they are also not going to spending £10k then are they, otherwise they would know exactly what they were buying.

Jeeez. are you taking the p or for real??

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336776325' post='1651061']
Anyway, Bravewood are a company, making money out of making replica guitars (Very well I might add), mine is a one-off replica that i made for myself, and is advertised as such.

Point.....missed......yes.
[/quote]

Your assumption of my understanding of the situation is inaccurate and offencive.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336776578' post='1651075']
Maybe, but they are also not going to spending £10k then are they, otherwise they would know exactly what they were buying.

Jeeez. are you taking the p or for real??
[/quote]

You are implying that have have a problem with your advert. It is none of my bee's wax. But it is pertinent to this debate.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776690' post='1651076']
Your assumption of my understanding of the situation is inaccurate and offencive.
[/quote]

feel free to explain yourself then. You said pot kettle black to my quote, which was amusing, as it was anything but, I replied. Wheres the offence???

God, basschat is becoming very angry and aggressive, I've been reading all sorts of threads over the last few days, lots of anger out there, and people getting offended by nowt. like being back at school.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1336776808' post='1651081']
You are implying that have have a problem with your advert. It is none of my bee's wax. But it is pertinent to this debate.
[/quote]

Yes, but i replied making it very simple, and that the comparism wasnt there, anyway, this is boring. If you were genuinly buying a £10k bass, you wouldnt be conned, thats what i said. Nothing more.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336776909' post='1651085']
feel free to explain yourself then. You said pot kettle black to my quote, which was amusing, as it was anything but, I replied. Wheres the offence???

God, basschat is becoming very angry and aggressive, I've been reading all sorts of threads over the last few days, lots of anger out there, and people getting offended by nowt. like being back at school.
[/quote]

Ok I'll explain but if you want to infer that I am acting like a school kid or accuse me of not being able to grasp a simple concept that I have been discussing all day then I'll have to say ta-ta.

You said that Bravewood were actually ethically worse than your copy because they could be passed off as originals.
You have gone to amazing lengths to produce a lovely example which you are openly advertising as a copy and not priced as an original. Once it sells (maybe to someone we've not seen around here much before) what guarantee do you have that they will not try to sell it on as an original. Going by what you said in your ad, most people would find it hard to tell... especially when there are fine details like the pencil dating.
Most fakes brought up on these pages are easily debunked by guys such as yourself... who better to buy a fake from with the intention of ripping someone off than from the expert himself.

"Ethically" they are the same. Bravewood sells to their customer as a Bravewood... how the buyer subsequently sells it on is anyone's guess.

Perhaps my choice of the phrase "pot-kettle-black" was a little over simplistic for the internet in this instance (given that you have a vested interest and a strong desire to defend) but I was trying to keep my comment as light-hearted as all my others in this thread and simply draw a comparison to the two identical possible outcomes.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Ou7shined