Does a low B ruin your E?

[Mr. Foxen]

B strings tend to be notirious for being a bit uneven, being aded to a bass scale intended for an E at the bottom etc. So I'd guess if you set everything up for the B to sound right, the E is compromised.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1336729314' post='1650006']
IMO, the thing here is that people are comparing the E string from a 4 string passive bass to a 5 string active one (vintage fender 4 stringers vs most 5's wich are active) so i'm thinking it will be a mather of personal taste and tone of the instrument and not interaction of the low B...

Has anyone compared the exact same model of bass with the same electronics on it's 4 and 5 string version and can confirm this rumour?
[/quote]

I have a 4- and 5-string Gus Bass both with single coil pickups and the Gus active circuit. The only difference is that the 4 string is fretless and strung with nickels and the 5-string fretted with steels. Just tried them out back to back and the difference is minimal and if I hadn't been listening for it I wouldn't have noticed anything. On the open E to my ears the 5-string sounds marginally better.

[deepbass5]

I heard this on here first some months back, I have been playing for thirty years 4 string for first 20 and 5's for the last 10. and never noticed whilst overcoming the change and settling into the world of 5 strings. But as soon as it was mentioned I think there is a difference. I believe this is due to the dominance of the B which defines the majority of the neck relief, due to its mass and the tension the B string holds over the E string inside. I have three very good fives, but there is something an E struck on a 4 string has, compared to one overshadowed and damped by the tension of the B string by its side.
I believe there is something in it.
It would be interesting if a manufacturer could measure this with and without the B string on the same Bass. Volume, tone length of ring and harmonics present etc. I think it’s more than myth

[BigRedX]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1336756195' post='1650656']
I heard this on here first some months back, I have been playing for thirty years 4 string for first 20 and 5's for the last 10. and never noticed whilst overcoming the change and settling into the world of 5 strings. But as soon as it was mentioned I think there is a difference. I believe this is due to the dominance of the B which defines the majority of the neck relief, due to its mass and the tension the B string holds over the E string inside. I have three very good fives, but there is something an E struck on a 4 string has, compared to one overshadowed and damped by the tension of the B string by its side.
I believe there is something in it.
It would be interesting if a manufacturer could measure this with and without the B string on the same Bass. Volume, tone length of ring and harmonics present etc. I think it’s more than myth
[/quote]

B strings are nearly always lower tension than the E, so that would negate your theory...

[Fat Rich]

My Precision bass had 5 strings on it when I got it, had a pretty good low B and a great E string. Now it's a 4 string again the E string sounds exactly like it always did despite a slightly slacker truss rod due to 1 less string.

Similarly taking the low B off my old Status S1 with the totally rigid neck (no truss rod, the remaining 4 strings stay in tune) makes no difference to the E string either, something I often had to do when showing other bass players who got confused by 5 strings what to play.

I think it's mumbo jumbo, if there is any difference in tone it's going to be tiny.

[chris_b]

Can anyone hear a difference between a 4 and 5 string Dingwall? Or do the fanned frets resolve this issue?

[thinman]

This is where I saw the comment:

[url="http://www.jamirotalk.net/interviews/paul.html"]http://www.jamirotalk.net/interviews/paul.html[/url]

[daz]

Possibly a drop D tuner on a four string is the answer. It works for Billy the king.

[stingrayPete1977]

Why would you be worried about losing a bit of your original E when you have a fatter more monstrous one on the 5th fret on the B? I'd wager it's more of an issue for 4 string players that have not adjusted to play in the new position of a 5er, I'd agree it sounds different (I own both x 2) but its neither here nor there for me, my pre EB Ray has a better E than an EBMM Ray 4 too

[Lfalex v1.1]

So...
What happens if you tune your fiver EADGC or DGCFBb (excellent tuning, btw)
Will that banjax my G string?
Or am I very seriously not convinced.
There are [i]way[/i] too many variables to give an accurate answer, let alone a consistent statement that 4>5.
Does that mean that 5>6 or 6>7?
Should we all worry about our 8, 10 and 12 strings? Burn our Chapman Sticks? Curse our 5-or-greater stringed EUBs?
Not today. Not on any day.
For even if the addition of a dastardly Low "B" does ultimately compromise the quality of our beloved E string, the extra range and positional flexibility more than makes up for any sonic degradation.
Which is why everyone uses (and will continue to use) them.

[icastle]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1336769741' post='1650961']
I'd wager it's more of an issue for 4 string players that have not adjusted to play in the new position of a 5er
[/quote]

+1

Learn how to use a 5 string properly and you won't be pussyfooting about trying to find the E string and tentatively only half playing it 'just in case you miss'.

[LawrenceH]

There is one difference between E strings on a 'typical' 4 string versus 5, and that's the amount of string that sits behind the nut, often at a pretty shallow angle which could affect the string's compliance. A B string pushes the E one peg further up on a Fender-style headstock.

[LukeFRC]

..... does the E on the B string sound good? just don't play that open e......

[Musicman20]

I trust Paul's comment as he can play both very well.

I've noticed it. Not massively, but it's there.

His comment on Ray 5ers is interesting, stating he thinks they got it right as the scale/construction makes it pretty much evenly toned all over. Unlike some 5ers which have massive low Bs.

[drTStingray]

I have two Musicman 5s and 3 Musicman 4s and I have never noticed a difference in the effectiveness of the E strings. The one definite difference is you can't whack the E string in the way, for example, Flea does sometimes - as you're almost certain to make the B string ring as well - a technique I had to learn playing a 5 was to constantly mute the B string when not playing it to avoid it ringing - more so than with the E string on a 4. If you're playing low Es a lot it can be easier to play them at 5th fret on the B string rather than the open E but the sound is very marginally different (an analogy is the difference playing an open A from an A on the 5th fret of the E string on a 4 string bass. Marginal but it rings differently).

[attachment=107701:24042010449.jpg]

Edited May 12, 2012 by drTStingray

[BB3000S]

By stupid mistake (why the **** does DR label their strings 1-4, 1-5, 1-6) I happened to string my Miller V EADGC yesterday. On a side note, when I tuned to pith (BEADG) I thought something had gone seriously wrong... Then a moment of "Noooo, you idiot!" when I saw the sixth string package with a big fat "6" on it, before thinking - oh, what the heck and tuning it to EADGC.

I played around with it in EADGC for a while, mainly thumpin' away, before restringing it proper in BEADG. The difference on the E was significant, stringed EADGC it sounded more open and aggressive whereas in BEADG it was slightly more contained. So yes, to my ears it definitely made a difference.

The one variable that possibly could have confounded my conclusion is that I didn't restring with new strings in BEADG, but moved the EADG(c) strings one up, so the E string in the BEADG scenario wasn't brand spanking new (I think that restringing actually can be a bit detrimental at times). Didn't feel up to just throwing away a brand new set of DR Fat Beams though...

So, to me it definitely was a sifnificant difference on the E between EADGC va BEADG tuning.
Was it enough to shine through in a recording? Possibly slightly.
Was it enough to be audible in a live band context? No way.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='BB3000S' timestamp='1336806377' post='1651239']
.......
The one variable that possibly could have confounded my conclusion is that I didn't restring with new strings in BEADG, but moved the EADG© strings one up, so the E string in the BEADG scenario wasn't brand spanking new (I think that restringing actually can be a bit detrimental at times).
......
[/quote]

Pretty big variable there if you ask me!

[BB3000S]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1336813282' post='1651327']


Pretty big variable there if you ask me!
[/quote]
Yeah I know! However the differende in sound wasn't that typical deadness that can come from restringing.
Also the bridge breaking angles were pretty much identical for having the E string in the B vs E position, I'd suspect that end to be more sensitive than the head end.

Probably never will feel fully motivated using brand new strings for both alternatives in a repeat experiment, but it would be quite interesting.

[JTUK]

I think there is an element in truth in regards to the OP, but ruin is way too strong a word.
I think it diminishes the open E the way an E would do the same to the open A. It effects it
to a very tiny degree..just about noticable but not discernable in a playing context.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1336817177' post='1651412']
I think there is an element in truth in regards to the OP, but ruin is way too strong a word.
I think it diminishes the open E the way an E would do the same to the open A. It effects it
to a very tiny degree..just about noticable but not discernable in a playing context.
[/quote]

+1 that was what I was going to say as post number 2 and forgot!

lifted from the web dictionary

[b]1. [/b]Total destruction or disintegration, either physical, moral, social, or economic.

[b]2. [/b]A cause of total destruction.

[b]3. [/b]
[b]a. [/b]The act of destroying totally.
[b]b. [/b]A destroyed person, object, or building.

[b]4. [/b]The remains of something destroyed, disintegrated, or decayed. Often used in the plural: studied the ruins of ancient Greece.

[i]v.[/i] [b]ru·ined[/b], [b]ru·in·ing[/b], [b]ru·ins[/b]

[i]v.[/i][i]tr.[/i]
[b]1. [/b]To destroy completely; demolish.
[b]2. [/b]To harm irreparably.
[b]3. [/b]To reduce to poverty or bankruptcy.
[b]4. [/b]To deprive of chastity.

So to answer the OP- No

[bubinga5]

i dont care how good he is, hes either said this under his breath sometime, or hes talking nonsense.... i hate all these minor details to a bassists tone.... its total rubbish.. its in the playing that matters

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='BB3000S' timestamp='1336806377' post='1651239']
I played around with it in EADGC for a while, mainly thumpin' away, before restringing it proper in BEADG. The difference on the E was significant, stringed EADGC it sounded more open and aggressive whereas in BEADG it was slightly more contained. So yes, to my ears it definitely made a difference.

[/quote]

So when you placed the E string where the B should be it sounded one way, but when you moved the same E string to its correct position and added a B string below it, it sounded different?

If so, I wonder if that has more to do with the way your finger hits/plucks that string? With the E in the "outside" position, you are free to hit/pluck it in a variety of ways depending on what you are trying to achieve.

Place another string (the B ) outside it, and you are at least slightly constrained in your angle of attack, and in how much you can dig in.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Happy Jack

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1336813282' post='1651327']
Pretty big variable there if you ask me!
[/quote]

Surely the biggest variable BB3000 had was tuning a 125 or 130 guage string to E and the same across the neck - an extra 25 mm string thickness will make a difference to the sound - ultra ultra heavy guage effectively.

In a similar way, if you play a G on the E string at 15th fret it'll sound substantially different to an open G, although the same note (well almost ).

String manufacturers make a range of guages - it's not for show they actually sound very different.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1336822818' post='1651540']
i dont care how good he is, hes either said this under his breath sometime, or hes talking nonsense.... i hate all these minor details to a bassists tone.... its total rubbish.. its in the playing that matters
[/quote]

You are right - I agree entirely.

Edited May 12, 2012 by drTStingray

[bubinga5]

this is where i get shown a post about me waffling on about strings and bridges etc...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1336778868' post='1651124']
There is one difference between E strings on a 'typical' 4 string versus 5, and that's the amount of string that sits behind the nut, often at a pretty shallow angle which could affect the string's compliance. A B string pushes the E one peg further up on a Fender-style headstock.
[/quote]

Only if you have a bass with a poorly designed Fender-style headstocks. All the 5-strings I use regularly have proper angled headstocks which means the break angle is the same for all the strings no matter where the machine head post is located.