3V17C Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Settle in for a long story, but I need a rant!! I play in an originals band which is very much the singer/guitarist's project (we go out under his name so essentially myself, the keys player and drummer are the backing band). All the musicians are of a very high standard, we get on as people and things are going reasonably well with some good album reviews in national press, radio play on local stations/Radio 2 etc and lots of gigs starting to come in both nationally and in Europe so a good project to be a part of with lots of potential. The album we recorded recently featured the bandleader's wife on backing vocals on a few tracks (she is a very good singer in her own right) and recently she has been coming along to gigs and getting up to do a few songs with us and also to support him as he's been having confidence/depression issues of late. Fair enough (although I must admit I don't get on with her particularly on a personal level - thats another story which I may go into some other time but I will always try to keep it professional) and of course it has altered the dynamic of the band as a whole a little bit but we can live with that.... or so i thought. Problem is, for the last couple of gig trips away they have now started bringing their two kids with them (aged 8 and 10) and now there is a definite 'them and us' split within the band. The van is big enough to accomodate them so thats not an issue but of course we now have to watch our language/band banter/risque jokes etc the whole time and generally be on our best behaviour and the whole travelling side of things (a big part of our day) is now like a family day out. Rather than having music etc on we now have Disney films playing on the way to gigs and we're barely allowed to stop for cigarette breaks etc. Also, speaking as a parent myself, the kids aren't particularly well disciplined and seem to be allowed to do what they want including sometimes being quite disrespectful to us in the band (by all accounts both children have some behavioural issues meaning they've had to move schools etc). Its already got to the point where myself and the other two guys are talking about travelling seperately to gigs. Obviously its a really awkward situation to address. My concerns are that its causing a split between us band members and the 'family unit'. Also I do question the wisdom of bringing them on the road in the first place. Aside from niggling things like them getting under our feet while we're unloading etc to my mind its an adult environment... surely they should be in school? All the travelling and very late nights makes them bored and irritable and when we're onstage who looks after them? We did a 2 hour radio session the other night and they were just left outside in the van by themselves with instructions to text if they needed anything. Certainly not something I'd do with my own daughter. Maybe its just me but it does seem like an unusual situation and from what I can tell they are going to continue coming to most gigs we do.... any thoughts/similar experiences on this?..... Peace C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Just a couple of follow up questions. Are these gigs always at weekends or are they often on weekdays? Do you often end up staying overnight near the gig location? And lastly do the children ever end up missing school to come with? Just as these answers quite significantly change the impact of their parenting decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackhammer Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I dislke children, If it was me, the first time would have gone something like this Him: 'lads I'm bringing little johnny and charlo....' Me: 'I'm out, give me my gear' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EskimoBassist Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I guess you've got to look at this from a professional perspective: do the advantages (money, exposure, travelling etc.) outweigh the disadvantages? If you think your compensation justifies it then I guess you can mark it down as one of the hassles of the gig. I mean, it doesn't sound like the situation is going to change any time soon and you are effectively part of [i]his[/i] backing band, so if you don't want to put up with the crap any more I suggest you raise it with him, one professional to another, and if he isn't accommodating then give him reasonable notice to find a new bassist. I know it's obviously a complicated problem, as the issues have only been raised since the dynamic has changed, but there's no point continuing with it if you're not happy or financially don't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ern500evo Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 A drummer I used to be in a band with went through a stage of bringing his 11yr old stepson to rehearsals, and it caused no end of problems. This was before the smoking ban but he used to insist we didn't smoke in the same room as the lad, which used to infuriate our guitarist who was quite a heavy smoker(normal cigs and the herbal kind). He eventually decided it wasn't the best place for an 11yr old and stopped bringing him, but many rows between guitarist and drummer had taken place by then. I'm not a parent so not in the best position to comment but I wouldn't even leave my dog in a van on his own for 2 hours, let alone 2 kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 seperate travel would probably be the easiest doesnt sound like they would be happy to leave the kids at home with someone, and i dont think you want to be around them if/when the mother of all domestics hits >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Can't be good for the kids. They must be bored rigid. As a parent, I wouldn't be happy taking my kids along to gigs. Actually, I simply wouldn't take my kids to gigs. The parents need to except that it's not an environment that's good for their children, so if they can't get childcare they're happy with then someone is going to have to stay home . I've been to rehearsals before where a band member has brought along their child. The child is stuck in the corner, watching a portable DVD player, trying to listen to it through headphones - this obviously fails as in the room are some really loud musicians - rehearsal gets cut short through a combination of child getting really tired and bored. It just doesn't work and I think it's unfair on all involved, other band members and the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyproduction Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Firstly congratualtions on finding enough work to be on the road a lot. I don't think taking the kids along all the time would be good for them if it is permanent like you say. A few trips for the experience now and then but a permanent fixture does not sound good for the band or kids. If all the band feel the same I would suggest mentioning to the parents that you all feel the same, it might make them realise that it is not the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='ZMech' timestamp='1336996635' post='1653639'] Just a couple of follow up questions. Are these gigs always at weekends or are they often on weekdays? Do you often end up staying overnight near the gig location? And lastly do the children ever end up missing school to come with? Just as these answers quite significantly change the impact of their parenting decisions. [/quote] Gigs are often weekdays and yes we stay away overnight sometimes 3 days in a row and soon to be more than that. Us three band members have own hotel room so not having to share with kids thank goodness!... at least not so far! Children missed 2 days of school on this last outing for starters.... apparently they only go to proper school 3 days a week anyway and are home schooled the other two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='keyproduction' timestamp='1336999259' post='1653694'] Firstly congratualtions on finding enough work to be on the road a lot. I don't think taking the kids along all the time would be good for them if it is permanent like you say. A few trips for the experience now and then but a permanent fixture does not sound good for the band or kids. [/quote] I agree taking kids to the odd (maybe more local) gig is totally fine, or maybe to any festivals etc where there is stuff for them to be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I don`t think it`s fair on either the kids or the rest of the band - but it seems to suit the parents. I`ve never been in this situation, and don`t have kids, so can`t really offer any advice based on experience. My only thoughts are that chances are the rest of the band all think this - maybe on drummerchat there`s a similar thread. I think a chat - without the singers wife and kids - is in order. If the family set-up dictates they all have to come along, take a vote and get them to provide their own transport, as the situation is obviously affecting the fun factor of being in a band. And once the fun has gone, well that`s why we do it, isn`t it, no point otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='3V17C' timestamp='1336996296' post='1653630'] I play in an originals band which is very much the singer/guitarist's project (we go out under his name so essentially myself, the keys player and drummer are the backing band). [/quote] I'd say this is the key point and a lot will depend on how formalised this arrangement is. Are you really part of the band or just a hired musician? A subtle but important difference. If the former, then all members should have a say in touring matters and conditions etc. If the latter then, frankly, it's their band and you have to do as they say (or leave). My bet is that these things are not clearly defined and that each band member has their own idea of things, and that they are not in harmony with each other. The first thing is to decide if you can put up with the situation. If you can then fine. if you can't then you should call a band meeting, raise your concerns and propose the sort of changes you'd be happy with. But you should first consider what to do if no-one agrees with you as it could result in your being forced out. As for the wisdom of taking kids on tour, I'd steer clear of that discussion unless expressly asked. They're not your kids so they're not your responsibility. Suggesting to parents that they are not doing a good job (whether it's true or not) is a recipe for disaster and not really any of your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='3V17C' timestamp='1336996296' post='1653630'] We did a 2 hour radio session the other night and they were just left outside in the van by themselves with instructions to text if they needed anything. Certainly not something I'd do with my own daughter. [/quote] Given their ages that is borderline illegal apart from being highly dangerous. At the very least I think that that should be pointed out to the parents. Should something happen (a child being ill, a passer by noticing unattended children and notifying the police or worse) your singer's career (and your continued employment) wouldn't be enhanced by the fallout so it is a valid point for you to raise. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1337000528' post='1653724'] I'd say this is the key point and a lot will depend on how formalised this arrangement is. Are you really part of the band or just a hired musician? A subtle but important difference. If the former, then all members should have a say in touring matters and conditions etc. If the latter then, frankly, it's their band and you have to do as they say (or leave). As for the wisdom of taking kids on tour, I'd steer clear of that discussion unless expressly asked. They're not your kids so they're not your responsibility. Suggesting to parents that they are not doing a good job (whether it's true or not) is a recipe for disaster and not really any of your business. [/quote] Well.... it is meant to be a 'band' rather than us just being hired hands as this has been discussed between us before but we go out under his name as his name has a small amount of previous recognition from stuff he has done in the past. And yes, questioning their parenting skills is of course very shaky ground which is one of the things making it awkward to address the issue. I should point out that at the moment we (the band) are making no money from this. We get a small food budget/a lot of our costs are covered and we do sometimes get a cut of gig money but a lot of stuff at the moment is unpaid supports. We're looking at it as a long term thing that may or may not end up as a career but meantime we're giving up our time etc pretty much for free, so as someone mentioned above we need to try to keep it enjoyable at this stage. If i was being paid a wage or whatever I would tolerate more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) I think somebody needs to ask how "professional" it is to bring children along to gigs... Edited May 14, 2012 by TheGreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='3V17C' timestamp='1336996296' post='1653630'] Its already got to the point where myself and the other two guys are talking about travelling seperately to gigs.[/quote] There's your answer. You cannot change how these people relate to their offspring nor is it your responsibility to ensure the little mites are enjoying a rounded education. So focus on changing what you can affect. Simply paste a sh*t-eating grin to your face and soapily inform Mr And Mrs Addams that they make such a [i]lovely[/i] family unit. They really should be able to enjoy their time together without the encumbrance of other people. It's [i]good[/i] to have time alone with the kids, they grow up so fast these days etc. So you'll be travelling separately from now on. You'll even meet the additional fuel costs from your own pockets. By this simple expedient, you will restore some peace to your lives while facilitating open discussion about their perfect ghastliness and how quickly you can either rustle up some replacements or find another 'star' to whose wagon you may hitch yourselves. Edited May 14, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 [size=5][sub]Two issues here for me...[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]The status in the band...and the kids/wife.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]If it is his band and his career then he can pay for it and you need to get the fees right. He can then call the shots on issue number two.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]If it is a 'band'... then this needs talking about, PDQ.... and he shouldn't have just come to the baby sitting situation or what to do with his wife conclusion all on his own...[/sub][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 For what it's worth, my initial reaction was [i]that's not good enough[/i] - there are issues all over the place in this scenario. A quick guess as to who you might be playing for, and a look at his tour dates, suggests that a number of these gigs will fall on school nights - or days, allowing for travel, etc. I think, as the guys above note, you need to work out if you're band or there as hired help - if it's a band, you've got a say so have it; if you're not a band, it's his call - but it remains yours if you want to work with that call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='3V17C' timestamp='1336996296' post='1653630'] We did a 2 hour radio session the other night and they were just left outside in the van by themselves with instructions to text if they needed anything. Certainly not something I'd do with my own daughter. [/quote] That is a frankly terrifying level of ignorange/naivety/stupidty/neglect (delete as appropriate). I've been a step parent for three years-ish and recently became a 'proper' parent for the first time - I won't leave our 7 year old in the van while I run in the shop for five minutes. This is a stunning lapse in parental responsibility - do these people think they're still teenagers living out their rockstar dreams? I have taken the missus and kids away for the weekend when we've played a (small, family-friendly) festival and it was great. They loved the adventure of camping out, the festival atmosphere and the many distractions, and they were fussed over and looked after by my bandmates and the various partners and friends that had come along. That kind of thing is great, and the kids loved being made part of the whole experience - coming backstage and helping set our gear up, and getting in the photo pit with their cameras. The world of slogging it out in a Transit van from one dingy club gig to the next is totally different and a wholly inappropriate environment for kids that young to be left unattended. Sounds like these guys have got their priorities all wrong, and I'd be concerned about how long the band can continue while they are essentially neglecting/ignoring the needs of their young'uns to fulfil their own dreams. I still make music, and still hope to make it a career or at least a large part of my life (as do many of us on here who have families) but the well being and stability of the kids surely has to come first? Madness. I'd be looking for my next move if I were you, doesn't sound like something that will last, or that I would want to be involved with in the long term. Edited May 14, 2012 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 What Mike257 said. They are neglecting their children, which doesn't say much about their priorities. It's too easy to say that it's none of your business. If a neglect case comes up due to someone reporting the situation, how do you think you and the other band members will look? Sounds like a nightmare to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Make the kids start hauling in backline and setting the PA up, they'll soon lose interest and ask to be left at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) [u][/u] Who gives a rat's ass? If they can't do their twelve-times table or they get slaughtered by an axe-wielding maniac it's the parents' problem. That's not the point. The OP just wants a quiet life - let's not make it even worse for him by suggesting he's going to get done over by The Social for child-endangerment or neglectfully abetting a kiddy-fiddler. Hardly going to help him sleep nights, is it? [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited May 14, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'd agree with the posts about neglect. If they left an animal in a car for 2 hours then they'd probably be reported and prosecuted. To do this with their own kids is disgusting. I think at this point the band has to come second and someone needs to start looking out for the kids, backing singers come and go, you've only got children as children once and you need to make sure that they're the priority. I'd have a word with your mate to the effect that you're going to sack his missus on the grounds that his kids are being mistreated and the band isn't fun anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "Hell is other peoples children" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1337005071' post='1653818'] I'd have a word with your mate to the effect that you're going to sack his missus on the grounds that his kids are being mistreated and the band isn't fun anymore. [/quote] I agree with this. Don't allow yourself to be in any way complicit with the kids missing education or being mistreated/neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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