That age old topic:- What amp/cab?!

[woodyratm]

Hey guys,
In the next few months my band should be gigging again. My problem is I have absolutely no backline now!

My requirements are:- a decent wack of power, the band are loud (scratch...guitarist is loud), but we always play with PA support.
Lightweight - I live in a top floor flat in a pretty shady area of town. So if possible, carried into the flat in 1 trip - so sadly no Ampeg valve heads! Or Mesa 400+ heads. Been there before, and as much as I'd adore one, they're just to heavy for me. Same applies to big cabs - just dont have the space.
Cost - currently this isnt a factor, as its something I can put money aside for in the next few months.
Soundwise - I use lots of fuzz tones and filters and play rock/synth/dubstep/metal kinda mix. So something that lets the fx shine through and not just muddy the waters as it were.

I have a newish style Astra so most cabs should fit, though I do often have to carry other equipment...

I'm not likely to really test much since we have nowt up here but I could travel to Glasgow/Edinburgh.

Sooo - any thoughts?

[markstuk]

Barefaced S12T and one of loads of Class D amps might suit.. Genz/TC/Markbass are the mainstream contenders...

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1337334989' post='1658248']
Barefaced S12T and one of loads of Class D amps might suit.. Genz/TC/Markbass are the mainstream contenders...
[/quote]

And GK! I'm not sure why they're so often overlooked.

The MB500 or Fusion would do well in a lightweight setup. Also there's the NEO cabs, I use an MB Fusion and one 212NEO at some gigs and it does a great job.

[woodyratm]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1337334989' post='1658248']
Barefaced S12T and one of loads of Class D amps might suit.. Genz/TC/Markbass are the mainstream contenders...
[/quote]

I was thinking Barefaced actually, though I'd be worried about the tweeter since i've never owned a cab with one... I hear stories pretty often of people busting their tweeters etc... I do have quite alot of low end at times.

What are the sounds of those heads generally like, I think my amp sound is pretty vintage sounding (think RATM kinda) so some valve grit and not that clean. So I'm unsure if Markbass would be suitable?
[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1337335255' post='1658258']
And GK! I'm not sure why they're so often overlooked.

The MB500 or Fusion would do well in a lightweight setup. Also there's the NEO cabs, I use an MB Fusion and one 212NEO at some gigs and it does a great job.
[/quote]
What kinda sound does the GK amps tend to give? I used to have one of the GK 212Neo cabs, and found it abit - well high? Like modern sounding?

cheers folks

[markstuk]

Not heard (or had) of any problems with the tweeters in the S12T, but when I bought mine there was a tweeterless option... In terms of your sound, MB probably would not work for you, the Genz Streamliner I suspect would tick your boxes - I don't have any experience with GK heads but I'm sure ThomBassmonkey will steer you correctly..

Edited May 18, 2012 by markstuk

[xgsjx]

Talk to Alex. See if you need a tweeter. If you do go for a tweeter, there's always the treble control on the amp. You can back it off.

[hamfist]

I'd strike Markbass amps off your list straight away. THey are generally clean and, IMO, the EQ centres etc just don't work well for a rock-based style. (no experience of the Rocker though)
I do have a hidden agenda, but the types of sounds you are describing sound very "Ashdown"y to me. The ABM's have one of the better valve pre's, and it is nicely blendable with the SS pre. Not class D, but still not particularly heavy ... an easy one hand carry up a flight of stairs.
The GK "sound" also sounds a bit scooped and "modern" for what you seem to be describing that you want.
Also, strike off the Genz Shuttles. They are a rather "thin" sounding amp, very much for those wanting a very full range, modern tone. The GB STreamliners are very different (I have one) with a much thicker tone. Personally, I don't like the grit from them though, which might be a deal-breaker for you (I use pedals for grit). They have oodles of "tubey" grunt and low end, but not a load of top end brightness, which may be an issue for you.
THe TC amps I have no experience of.
As for cabs, if you are looking for lightweight and loud, then Barefaced would seem to be the way to go, unless a good SHroeder becomes available at the right price, which might also be well worth considering.
SOunds like you are going to have some fun deciding what to get !!

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1337335915' post='1658280']
What kinda sound does the GK amps tend to give? I used to have one of the GK 212Neo cabs, and found it abit - well high? Like modern sounding?

cheers folks
[/quote]

I really need to get around to making that video demo of my amps I've been threatening to do for ages!

I disagree about the GK sound being modern, I can understand to an extent about the MB series but the EQ is so versatile it's easy enough to get a more vintage sound out of it. GKs are used by everyone from Duff McKagan to ELP to Tool.

The GK heads are known for their growly sound, the lightweight series (the MBs) are a little more modern sounding than the RBs but their EQ is very versatile and with them having a gain/volume, you can set yourself anywhere from spanky clean to full overdrive.

I've only used the NEOs with my two GK heads and they are quite naturally bright compared to some other cabs, but they'll do what you want. I found I could get anywhere from spanky through to dubby rumble (with the EQ on my GK heads) and they stayed clear with no mud.

On the topic of tweeters, I wouldn't worry too much. People think because the tweeter is quiet, they need to crank it to make a difference to their sound. So long as you don't run tweeters flat out all the time they should be fine. Most cabs have a tweeter volume control anyway that if you don't like the tweeter or are worried, you can set it to 0.

[woodyratm]

Cheers guys,
I shall have a look on youtube and see what like

Also have emailed Alex to see what his thoughts are.

[Lozz196]

The GK MB Fusion 500 is a good amp for the grindy tones, and as it has tubes in the pre-amp, has a lot more depth to it than the regular MB 500 (which is a great amp, btw). If anything, the Fusion sounds like a GK on its own, but once in the mix, it has a more Ampeg-like presence. It`s been described on Talkbass as the least GK-sounding amp GK make. Plus, it`s the size and weight of half a lap-top, so very convenient.

Re cabs - you can`t go wrong with Barefaced - incredibly lightweight, and portable. GK Fusion & Barefaced S12 - plenty of power, easy do it in one trip, with your bass in a gig-bag.

Edit - I would have suggested a Schroeder cab, but the 410s are 50lbs, and being typical 410 shaped, not really doable in one trip. Unless of course a smaller cab is required. If so, worth a look, Schroeders are very good in the mix.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Lozz196

[aldude]

There's also a tweeter control on the Barefaced cabs (well there is on the S12T, not sure about the Midget) so you can totally turn it off if it's not for you. Also the amount of low end shouldn't bust the tweeter as there is (probably) a crossover in there to direct only the higher frequencies to it. This is probably less of a protection issue than the fact that a tweeter just can't knock out the low frequencies very well so it's a waste of power.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1337335915' post='1658280']
I hear stories pretty often of people busting their tweeters etc... I do have quite alot of low end at times.
[/quote]

Isn't the low end that busts them so much as your amp not coping with the amount you are trying to get out of it and clipping. Sounds nasty, puts too much power into high frequencies. Proper use of a limiter should fix that, many power amps have them built in.

[Paul S]

I play in two rocks bands, one classic heavy rock with a very loud drummer. I use a Barefaced Compact plus Midget, either independently or together depending on circumstances, with a TC Electronic Classic 450. That head has a very good and useable 'tubetone' control that gives a pretty decent valvey overdrive sound that can go from 'totally clean' to 'Lemmy'. If I were buying from scratch again I would keep the same cabs and stick with TC Electronic, but get the RH450 as the footswitchable memory thingy for amp settings I would find useful.

The Barefaced cabs I think are universally admired by those that have used them and easy to recommend as they reproduce very cleanly the sound of what goes in. Recommending amps is a bit of a minefield - everyone hears things differently and prefers different things.

[HADGE]

I play in a rock band with a guitarist using a big marshall stack and a drummer who thinks hes building a shed and use a markbass 2x10 combo and have no problems making there ears bleed so try a markbass iv got other amps ampeg stack ashdown combos peavey combos ect but love the markbass try all the others out but markbass in my opinion are great amps and i carry mine in one hand and my guitar in the other.Hope this helps.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='HADGE' timestamp='1337369517' post='1659025']
I play in a rock band with a guitarist using a big marshall stack and a drummer who thinks hes building a shed and use a markbass 2x10 combo and have no problems making there ears bleed so try a markbass iv got other amps ampeg stack ashdown combos peavey combos ect but love the markbass try all the others out but markbass in my opinion are great amps and i carry mine in one hand and my guitar in the other.Hope this helps.
[/quote]

+1

I used to play in a loud rock band. Guitarists didn't know how to turn dials anti clockwise & the drummer could build a very large shed with a corrugated iron roof in the space of a song. Trace Elliot 4x10 combo struggled, Markbass 2x10 combo never had any trouble at all. I actually had one guitarist ask me to turn down.
I know one or two folk on here have said that they've needed an extra cab, but I wonder if it was either poor EQing, the guitarists overdoing it with the lower frequencies (you know the wazzicks that think it's "bluesy") or poor placement of the combo?

As for Markbass not being any good for Rock, PAH! if you want it to sound like an Ashdown, turn up the VLE & back the treble off a bit (& if you're not happy with that, put a duvet over the cab ). I've found the LMII a very versatile little amp with those 2 filters on it. I still use it in my Alt Dot band.

If you're going for a BF cab, get it first & then take it around & try some amps. There's a few BCers up your way with different heads & I dare say a few would let you try their head for a try of your cab, maybe an excuse to have a Doric Bass Bash?

[HADGE]

well said xgsjx i have a ashdown combo and dont rate it at all the only time i have had to put another cab with my mb 2x10 combo was when i played a open air concert and i added my mb 121hf which was that good one of the top bands we were supporting told me how good it sounded. The only other gear i would rate as good as my mb is my big ampeg gear but you need a fork lift truck to lift it.

[gregsguitars]

Most of my basser bros play through Ampeg heads and atleast 4 x 12 or 4 x 15 cabs...

Edited May 18, 2012 by gregsguitars

[chrismuzz]

Another vote for Markbass here! Light, loud, reliable, and quite easy to come by! Very responsive to effects too as they're so clean and clear.

Barefaced cabs are probably the best in the business, but if youre in a rush for a gigging rig, used ones aren't easily come by. Also I'm not sure of the waiting times on a brand new one.

[JTUK]

I've used a MK combo, the 102 and it needs an ext cab from my POV. It isn't my rig so I wouldn't abuse it..but then I wouldn't abuse my kit either. The Gtr ..whose amps it is..asked me to add a cab as well.

I do think the MB102 is a far better solution that the 12" combos tho..but asking a 210 to deal with 300 of bass is getting a bit risky, IMO. not matter who makes the cab..
As for Eq..never use it ..and would use the filters..and I am not a fan of very bassy tones either....

I think they are fine combos but can't see them as an answer on a decent sound stage... and I don't think others guys I've seen make them work at all...altho they seem to thin k it does, but then they aren't out front.
I am not overly convinced they amp up very well either.. at a pokey ( as in powerful) rehearsal..? brilliant, tho

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1337335915' post='1658280']
I was thinking Barefaced actually, though I'd be worried about the tweeter since i've never owned a cab with one... I hear stories pretty often of people busting their tweeters etc... I do have quite alot of low end at times.
[/quote]

Barefaced is your only option!! Do not worry about the tweeter, if you are give Alex an email. Alex has given Shep(Pantherairsoft) a lifetiime garuntee on his, he is that confident that the tweeter won't blow, and Shep's sonic assualkt on the cab is unreal, and he uses the tweeter a fair bit and has a load of top end in his overall sound.

Amp wise, I will vote markbass, that RATM sound is very possible with the tube preamp'd heads. It's more about midrange than actual grit (IMO) as long as you have the right bass and it's set up well, then barefaced and Markbass will give you more sounds than you thought. I play a lot of RATM and just the markbass flat as a pancake. They also articulate effects very well, and in terms of gigs, I always go through the PA anyway so EQ on stage so i can hear the cab, so cut the bass and up the mids.

I would also suggest genz streamliner. While the MB tube heads are great they won't do dirt or grit on their own, they will muddy the sound if you want with the filters but you can't get the tube to grind and sound good....
The Genz input stage allows the tubes to grit up very nice, while staying relatively clean and middy, Shep uses the 900 and he says it performs stupidly well for a tiny unit.
I sold it him and I couldn't get round the overall sound (slight mid scoop and bass and treble slightly boosted) coupled with the mid sontrols just wasn't for me.

The Genz will grit up on it's own but since yuou are using aa few effects there is no point in that, IMO.

The MB high control centre EQ is more suited to helping bring out the treble on tweetered cabs I think, on the LMTube IIRC it's centred at 10khz, so mostly I boost this to helop the compact in it's lack of super highs.

BTW is the band name reference to Metal gear??????

Edited May 19, 2012 by Prime_BASS

[daveparker123]

SVT 2 Pro and 810 and a new house!

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1337416214' post='1659481']
BTW is the band name reference to Metal gear??????
[/quote]

If you mean his band FOXDIE then yes

[risingson]

I'll put my vote in for the TC Electronics RH750 plus a combination of the RS212's or 210's. They are completely joyous amps and cabs, very capable of keeping up with a loud band (although address that first before you spend a fortune on a rig!) and focused low mids that really help cut in a band situation. It can keep up with the 'modern' sounding thing too what with the 'tweetertone' control. I'm delighted with mine and would be happy to recommend it to anyone. Best of all - really lightweight.

Edited May 19, 2012 by risingson

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1337416866' post='1659497']
I'll put my vote in for the TC Electronics RH750 plus a combination of the RS212's or 210's. They are completely joyous amps and cabs, very capable of keeping up with a loud band (although address that first before you spend a fortune on a rig!) and focused low mids that really help cut in a band situation. It can keep up with the 'modern' sounding thing too what with the 'tweetertone' control. I'm delighted with mine and would be happy to recommend it to anyone. Best of all - really lightweight.
[/quote]

One thing to bear in mind this is one of few amps I'd really suggest to actually go somewhere and try. Great bit of kit but the feel of the sound it produces is different to anything else out there.
I had the RH750 and I felt the bass and my playing was chocked somehow, which is evident why now, so I sold it a brought a second LMTube.....

[JTUK]

Another vote for the RH750 and RS cabs as something to investigate. Not used one in anger tho....but in demo, very pokey..!!
Maybe the class D thing will manifest itself as a marmite thing for bass, but I don't think we are there yet..