Neck shapes - now I'm confused!!

[Jamesemt]

I always thought my problem was nut width, but now I'm not so sure.

I've got a MIJ 62 RI Precision that I changed the neck on as I was getting hand cramps with the neck. However, I've just played a Stingray which supposedly has a Precision like neck, and found it really comfortable??

I think the reissue P has a 'U' neck, so maybe I am more sensitive to neck shape? I presume most basses have a C shaped neck?

I'm looking for a new (old) Precision, and have maybe mistakenly dismissed a lot of fantastic basses thinking I wouldn't be able to play them...

So is nut width linked to comfort, or is it just string spacing?

How would all this fit in with an early 70s Precision? Thinking of Beedster's B necked sunburst...so confused!!

[The Burpster]

I believe its potentially even more confusing than that.

Nut width and string spacing is what is important for your brain to work out where the notes are (muscle memory).

Neck proflies and depth are how the rest or your hand relates to your fingers and the fret board. If you have kept the same nut width but changed the profile that'll be why your getting cramps; your hand and wrist havent adjusted to the shallower neck.

I find shallower necks (modern P profile) but the same nut width and spacing very comfortable but find I am way more accurate on a slightly deeper more D shaped neck (Ovation and PRS).

Getting engrossed in one type of Fender based on what the neck should be, could be very confusing as they (Big F) have a habit of changing profiles and neck width like the wind.....

Beedster is pretty up there on what teh profiles are there are a couple of other fenderheads that can tell you the diemensions of th 4 different types of neck.....

My advice FWIW is if you like teh bass try it.... dont write it off because it SHOULD have a XXX neck.... you could be pleasently surprise.

[OutToPlayJazz]

I've always thought it to be the distance from fingers to thumb (neck thickness?) If I play a musicman or a particularly thick necked Precision, I get hand cramps as well. String spacing only affects accuracy in playing. If you're supremely accurate, 16.5mm spacing is no problem for great speed in playing, but I usually find 19mm is more comfortable and natural feeling.

Do you change your hand shape/angle to play on different strings? I always tell pupils to think in terms of the left hand coming up from under the neck (as opposed to from behind), and that the thumb should always be behind the neck, never on top or hooked over, but behind the middle finger. The hand should not move or change shape to play on different strings, either.

I find my thinner necked basses are the easist to play, but my recent MIA S1 Jazz was a really comfortable neck, even though it was thicker than my previous Geddy Lee.

[Jase]

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='180310' date='Apr 19 2008, 08:41 AM']I always thought my problem was nut width, but now I'm not so sure.

I've got a MIJ 62 RI Precision that I changed the neck on as I was getting hand cramps with the neck. However, I've just played a Stingray which supposedly has a Precision like neck, and found it really comfortable??

I think the reissue P has a 'U' neck, so maybe I am more sensitive to neck shape? I presume most basses have a C shaped neck?

I'm looking for a new (old) Precision, and have maybe mistakenly dismissed a lot of fantastic basses thinking I wouldn't be able to play them...

So is nut width linked to comfort, or is it just string spacing?

How would all this fit in with an early 70s Precision? Thinking of Beedster's B necked sunburst...so confused!![/quote]


Are you looking for one of those P necks that had J neck spec, "A" neck type. Apparently, some were made like this but most common were the "B" type. Have you considered the neck radius? I don't know what radius Stingrays are but your reissue would be a 7.25"...Stingrays 10 or 12??? new Fenders are 9.25" radius. I found my hand cramps came from the ultra slim or "shallow" profile of my Geddy, the theory being that there wasn't much neck filling my hand and as I play with my thumb behind the neck always as OTPJ mentioned, I found my thumb had to pivot causing cramps and fatigue but lots of people play the Geddy with out problem, I've also since found that a vintage radius is very difficult for me to play. I've since gone to the modern Fender shape and radius...C and 9.25" and again like OTPJ says they are very comfortable but of course it's all a matter of taste and what's best for you. Just my opinion

[Beedster]

Despite Bob's flattering comment above, I doubt any amount of expertise can dictate this, you simply have to play the bass. I've always found Jazz necks (1.5" nut) easier to play in terms of speed but prefer fat Precision necks (1.75""), especially live. Over and above this, the neck profile and radius likely make a significant yet often overlooked contribution to playability, so unless you have exact details of these, and a clear idea of what you need, it's hard to know how a neck will play without playing it
Chris

Written under the influence of Kronenburg 1664. If complete bullshit, will be rertracted when sober.

[budget bassist]

Yeah to be honest i have to play a bass to see if i like the neck or not. A lot of people may say the like X neck, but i go and try it out and find it's nothing special, like the warwick i tried the other day, really didn't get along with the neck. Then there's the stingray, that neck shouldn't be much special to me but i love the finish on ray necks, it's not slim but it's soooo comfortable. It also depends what i fancy playing on it. If i want to use that bass for funk and slapping and stuff i don't mind it being a little bit fat and a little wide because i need the space. But if it's a bass i could use for metal and technical fast stuff then i prefer the neck to be nice and thin with a thin profile.

[chris_b]

I would imagine that if you are getting cramp while playing it's not the neck shape that is the problem, but you are holding your hand incorrectly. Maybe you should lengthen the strap to drop the body and angle the neck up to let your hand rest more naturally on it.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='chris_b' post='181292' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:13 PM']I would imagine that if you are getting cramp while playing it's not the neck shape that is the problem, but you are holding your hand incorrectly. Maybe you should lengthen the strap to drop the body and angle the neck up to let your hand rest more naturally on it.[/quote]

I appreciate the comments, but I only got cramp with that one neck - never had it before or since...

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='Jase' post='181176' date='Apr 20 2008, 05:44 PM']Are you looking for one of those P necks that had J neck spec, "A" neck type. Apparently, some were made like this but most common were the "B" type. Have you considered the neck radius? I don't know what radius Stingrays are but your reissue would be a 7.25"...Stingrays 10 or 12??? new Fenders are 9.25" radius. I found my hand cramps came from the ultra slim or "shallow" profile of my Geddy, the theory being that there wasn't much neck filling my hand and as I play with my thumb behind the neck always as OTPJ mentioned, I found my thumb had to pivot causing cramps and fatigue but lots of people play the Geddy with out problem, I've also since found that a vintage radius is very difficult for me to play. I've since gone to the modern Fender shape and radius...C and 9.25" and again like OTPJ says they are very comfortable but of course it's all a matter of taste and what's best for you. Just my opinion [/quote]


Both reissue necks (the P and the replacement J) had 7.25'' radius (I am led to believe..)

[paul, the]

Hmm, I think it should be Fender's responsibility to make something this important clearer.

I had a '62 RI and the neck was horrible, you could really see where they got the 'U' shape from. I likened it to the underside of a jaffa cake.

The neck was very uncomfortable to play, and anything that filled my hand up more (depth), I found far more comfortable.

I can only agree with most of the comments above and hope that someone can put forward info or find a reliable source with certainty.

[Kiwi]

I've found myself going from thin neck profiles to chunky profiles because of the cramping issue on my left hand. The neck I cramped on most was a super slim Modulus Quantum neck. It felt like the angle of my fingers was too shallow and my muscles got tired very easily. I get less cramping on more substantial necks and it feels like my fingers are at a more natural angle in relation to my palm.

Because I don't have hitchhikers thumbs, my right hand has to pivot more to reach the upper strings on a 5 or 6 string bass (or I use the floating thumb technique). So narrow spacing at the bridge is comfortable as well, something like 17mm because it means less reach with my fingers.

[P-T-P]

This is such a personal issue it's hard for anyone to give accurate advice beyond their own experiences.

For me, I found any number of things contribute to left hand comfort, not simply neck dimensions. The way the bass sits on a strap, the amount of neck dive (if any), the amount of friction between your strap and shirt and so on.

After a good three years of trying to find the perfect 4 string jazz and continually coming up with the same cramping problem, I've pretty much given up on them. I have particularly small hands so had always assumed the narrower nut and string spacing ona jazz would naturally make it ideal for me. Every jazz I had though gave me problems, moreso when using on a strap than when sat down. It's only through much trial and error that I've realised that the jazz bass neck dimensions, when I wear the bass on a strap, cause my left hand to grip the neck too much which wasn't so much of an issue when seated because my right arm would act as an anchor leaving left hand free to just fret notes rather than hold the neck.

I also don't get along to great with necks that are super wide - TRB6 - or those that have a particularly pronounced shoulder to them (this kinda shape \___/ though of course a bit more rounded) - TRB6, Status 4.

The best 4 string neck I've ever played was a Status MusicMan replacement job, which felt just great. Looking back, I also got on much better with P-Bass necks than I did with jazz basses. I find Lakland 5 string necks feel just right too, and Fender 5s ain't bad, though I dislike the bridge spacing on the latter.

I think it's a bit like cavity backed irons in golf compared to the traditional blade type irons. The traditional ones have a sweet spot about the size of a match head, the cavity backed ones have one about the size of a 5p piece and are more forgiving to swings with a natural fade/draw as a result. The wider necks probably have a larger "sweet spot" where your thumb can sit comfortably whereas on a narrower neck, you're more confined and as a result need to keep your left hand technique that much more in check to avoid getting into a position that is uncomfortable.

Don't know if that helps at all, but it could be you have similar tastes to me which I've come to discern as being fairly wide at the nut, with a gently sloping curve to the profile without being particularly deep.

[Beedster]

[quote name='paul, the' post='181501' date='Apr 21 2008, 04:05 AM']Hmm, I think it should be Fender's responsibility to make something this important clearer.[/quote]

There are a couple of articles in mags about it and Fender have accepted that the confusion is the result of historical poor QC. If the article I've just read is accurate, Fender's official line is that letters were never used to describe shape, merely width at the nut (A = 1.5, B = 1.625, C = 1.75). This having been said, I've seen Fender use the letted C to describe the shape of the neck in recent advertising so your guess is as good as mine

Interesting that a lot of guys with smaller hands prefer fatter necks. I've never got on with Jazz necks despite having hands the size of a kitten's! I still think, as is suggested above, there's a lot more to factor in than width or shape. I can play walking and blues lines on a Jazz with ease but struggle with more complex funk or technical stuff which I find easy on a Precision, especially my c width (D profile!)...

Chris