KingBollock Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1337613740' post='1662793'] But it didn't start off like that. Rather than take a bench grinder to your dream bass in order to address it's current issues you should try and fix what's causing it... imho. I couldn't agree more. They will be able to help you address this in a way that's more sympathetic to the instrument. [/quote] It's the stock bridge, I have a feeling that it did start off like that. Which, granted, is a bit worrying quality control wise, (not being able to get the action below 4.5mm is a bit crap) but I can't see how it could have been done afterwards. All the truss rod stuff I was banging on about turned out not to be the real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1337614207' post='1662806'] It's the stock bridge, I have a feeling that it did start off like that. Which, granted, is a bit worrying quality control wise, (not being able to get the action below 4.5mm is a bit crap) but I can't see how it could have been done afterwards. All the truss rod stuff I was banging on about turned out not to be the real problem. [/quote] Sorry my bad, you misunderstood what I said, I know the bridge is the original (that's why I'm kind of trying to persuade you to not grind it down just yet) what I meant was that the neck didn't start off being like that. Anyway I think I've done all I can here. Good luck man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1337615183' post='1662826'] Sorry my bad, you misunderstood what I said, I know the bridge is the original (that's why I'm kind of trying to persuade you to not grind it down just yet) what I meant was that the neck didn't start off being like that. Anyway I think I've done all I can here. Good luck man. [/quote] Sorry, I don't mean to be stupid. I'm just not sure the neck was the problem I made it out to be. It will be a while before I can get my hands on a grinder, in the mean time I shall have a look for a local repairer, there's a chap around the corner who I think would be a good place to start, he runs a small Guitar shop but mostly does lessons there. I shall take your advice and get more advice before I go chopping away at it. I really do appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It seems to me, and I may be wrong, that you are a bit out your depth with the set up on this thing. You are going to mental extremes,if the allen key isn't the right shape to let you turn it, then the main thing is to get a different designed allen key- not lug out bits of the wood. The problem is in the neck- so grinding parts of the bridge away is an odd way to solve the problem. Find a guitar tech and pay them some money to fix it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1337615694' post='1662836'] Sorry, I don't mean to be stupid. I'm just not sure the neck was the problem I made it out to be. It will be a while before I can get my hands on a grinder, in the mean time I shall have a look for a local repairer, there's a chap around the corner who I think would be a good place to start, he runs a small Guitar shop but mostly does lessons there. I shall take your advice and get more advice before I go chopping away at it. I really do appreciate the help. [/quote] the bass was built with a through neck and designed to work with the bridge and pups it has in it. At some point something has happened- you for instance have talked about the truss rod a lot. and you can't get the action low enough. it's not logical to shave the bridge down- it worked with that bridge when it was made. Logically the problem is more likely to be the neck. Sort that out and I suspect that the bridge will be fine as it is. If that means a trip to swansea or cardiff or wherever is near so be it- but go to a proper pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I have set up Basses in the past and never had this kind of trouble, I have to confess that this one has thrown me somewhat. I haven't cut chunks out of it or ground anything off it. My first thought was to try to reshape the allen key I was using. I am coming up with ideas and bouncing them off here. I have every intention of finding someone proper to look at it before I do anything, infact I'd rather just let someone else work on it, or at the very least get advice from someone holding it in their hands. I am happy with the way it is right now so I'm not in a hurry to go chopping at it, I haven't done anything to it that can't be easily undone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I haven't read this thread in detail so sorry if I'm totally off track here. If there's not enough clearance to swing the allen key more than a few degrees, couldn't you slip a matching size ring spanner over it (using the long end of the "L") before inserting it into the screw head? Or cut a length off the allen key and use a socket spanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1337619907' post='1662924'] I haven't read this thread in detail so sorry if I'm totally off track here. If there's not enough clearance to swing the allen key more than a few degrees, couldn't you slip a matching size ring spanner over it (using the long end of the "L") before inserting it into the screw head? Or cut a length off the allen key and use a socket spanner. [/quote] Unfortunately the truss rod recess is so deep that you can't get a straight run at the truss rod. I couldn't get a spanner or pliers in the hole because it's so tight. I could try cutting a length of the allen key off and drilling holes in the side of it so I could put a slim rod or screwdriver in it to use as a handle. I did try reshaping the allen key, using a blowtorch and a lot of pressure, but they're tough little buggers. I'm hoping that someone who does this sort of thing for a living might have the relevant tool for such a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If its not a daft question, would an allen key with a shorter short bit help ? I've had a few basses in the past where grinding the short bit down by about 50% has made life much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Would something like these help? [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000LFVJ0E/ref=asc_df_B000LFVJ0E7969062?smid=A2JOTKNCZJ0Z4V&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B000LFVJ0E"]http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B000LFVJ0E[/url] You beat me to it. Edited May 21, 2012 by bertbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Thanks Johnston, the ball ended allen key does seem like the best idea so far. I have normal allen keys but... I have put the truss rod cover back on now (less likely to mess about with it) so I can't take photos, so I've knocked up a crappy little diagram to show my problem: The black lines are the Bass and the outline of the truss rod recess. The red in each diagram is what I can do, the green is what I wish I could do but can't as you can see by the way it clashes with the black lines. Hopefully that will explain things better then I have been able to in just words. Though it's probably just going to add a whole new level of confusion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Actually that's just added a whole new level of confusion. Not really, I see exactly what you mean now, how strange. What are you suppose to adjust the truss rod with then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1337627103' post='1663124'] Thanks Johnston, the ball ended allen key does seem like the best idea so far. I have normal allen keys but... I have put the truss rod cover back on now (less likely to mess about with it) so I can't take photos, so I've knocked up a crappy little diagram to show my problem: The black lines are the Bass and the outline of the truss rod recess. The red in each diagram is what I can do, the green is what I wish I could do but can't as you can see by the way it clashes with the black lines. Hopefully that will explain things better then I have been able to in just words. Though it's probably just going to add a whole new level of confusion... [/quote] From the look of your drawing, a shorter short part allen key [i]would[/i] help. Have you tried using an L shaped torx tool, star shaped, but they fit into allen key type socket screws and they dont slip, I use em in place of allen keys a lot at work, and never damaged a head yet, that way you would get double the choice of 'start positions'. which is great when you can only get about an eighth of a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1337616517' post='1662856']...If that means a trip to swansea or cardiff or wherever is near so be it- but go to a proper pro [/quote] If you can get yourself to Swansea, then I'd recommend getting Marvin in Cranes to look at it - he's done some good work for me in the past, and at a fair price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That's just bad design. The truss nut should be easily accessible by all without the need for special tools. I don't know what to suggest. The idea of opening up the access area a little is probably the only way to go. As long as you stay within the confines of the cover, I dont see any problem. Just try and keep your work tidy. Use a file to knock the edges off. I dare you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175mm-FLEXIBLE-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-HOLDER-1-4-HEX-SHANK-/300712984180?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4603e3fe74"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175mm-FLEXIBLE-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-HOLDER-1-4-HEX-SHANK-/300712984180?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4603e3fe74[/url] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WERA-300-SERIES-FLEXIBLE-SHAFT-1-4-HEX-BIT-HOLDER-/300712575473?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4603ddc1f1"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WERA-300-SERIES-FLEXIBLE-SHAFT-1-4-HEX-BIT-HOLDER-/300712575473?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4603ddc1f1[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1337682366' post='1663778'] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175mm-FLEXIBLE-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-HOLDER-1-4-HEX-SHANK-/300712984180?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4603e3fe74"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4603e3fe74[/url] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WERA-300-SERIES-FLEXIBLE-SHAFT-1-4-HEX-BIT-HOLDER-/300712575473?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4603ddc1f1"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4603ddc1f1[/url] [/quote]Surely that is never going to fit in there. The non bendy bit holding end looks at least 1" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1337682618' post='1663789'] Surely that is never going to fit in there. The non bendy bit holding end looks at least 1" long. [/quote] If it were mine... I'd give it a try. Besides those were just the first examples I came across in a 1 minute ebay search. Edited May 22, 2012 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1337682366' post='1663778'] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175mm-FLEXIBLE-SCREWDRIVER-BIT-HOLDER-1-4-HEX-SHANK-/300712984180?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4603e3fe74"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4603e3fe74[/url] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WERA-300-SERIES-FLEXIBLE-SHAFT-1-4-HEX-BIT-HOLDER-/300712575473?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4603ddc1f1"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4603ddc1f1[/url] [/quote] I've got one of those from the first link. I have tried it but the non bendable part is 2cm too long. Another problem is that I don't have a Hex bit that will fit, I have 5mm or 6mm but not 5.5mm, I only have an allen key in 5.5mm. My current plan is to leave it alone until I can show it to a pro. I have been to Crane's in Swansea before, so if the chap in the shop around the corner can't recommend anyone closer, I shall go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1337683453' post='1663819'] I was thinking that. But I also think they are sh*t. If something needs a bit of torque they can roll up rather than turning. [b] Mine made the usual dunk sound as it hit the bottom of the bin[/b] [/quote] I know I'm just trying to help the lad out of a tight corner - I'm sure given the time I could find the perfect tool. Like I say if it were mine I'd try thinking out of the box before attempting invasive surgery. Edited May 22, 2012 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 To get round bridge height issue, can use taperwound strings, since they need the bridge higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I had a 5 String Warlock NT and Mockingbird NT from the same series. The neck angles on both were so wrong, couldn't get a low action at all. I had to get the bridges routed into the body to get a decent action. I imagine the guy stripped the nut trying to sort a problem that was the manufacturers in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1337764249' post='1664976'] I had a 5 String Warlock NT and Mockingbird NT from the same series. The neck angles on both were so wrong, couldn't get a low action at all. I had to get the bridges routed into the body to get a decent action. I imagine the guy stripped the nut trying to sort a problem that was the manufacturers in the first place. [/quote] The nut isn't stripped, it just looks like it is. It can be turned but it is awkward. I'm going to take it to someone who will hopefully have the right tools to turn it. In this case it isn't the neck angle that is wrong, it's pretty straight, the problem is that the fretboard sits only 5mm proud of the body, where on my other Basses it is 10mm. I fear that there isn't that much relief to be taken out of the neck, though, certainly not enough to fix the problem. I have to say that I don't fancy having the body routed because the bridge isn't all that thick and there would need to be extra space routed behind it to be able to get the strings in easily. Which means refinishing that area or lining it with half a shallow metal dish. If, once the neck has been sorted properly, there is still the same problem, I believe that taking material away from under the sleds (I keep calling them sleds but I don't know what they are actually called, they are the sliders that the saddles sit in) and from under the saddles. I would only need to take a couple of millimeters from under each part, which would compensate for the fretboard's lack of height from the body, and if I were to completely cock it up a replacement bridge is only £20. You would have thought, with it being a neck-through, they would have taken extra care to get this sort of thing right, which is why, along with some of the advice from here, I am doubting myself, so I will take it to someone before I do anything. I have set-up Basses before and have even come across the same problem, where the neck is almost flat and the bridge sits too high and can't be lowered any more, in that case I shimmed the neck and it was fine. Edited May 23, 2012 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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