Alec 'Aleb' Mills Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Well, I've been looking into just getting a mixer & a few mics for home recording purposes. I firstly though 2 SM57's. Then I was thinking of getting a stereo pair such as [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em800_stereo_set.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._stereo_set.htm[/url] and I've used C1000s before to good effect [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_c1000s_mk_ii_set.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...s_mk_ii_set.htm[/url] and ofcourse something like this with shockmount for vocals http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc600_retour_studiomikrofon.htm I'm not entirely sure what mics to get for a starter. Things like guitar/piano/bass/vocals/cajon. I've heard some good things of Behringer & experienced AKG/Shure. Can any who are more experienced than I offer any advice? Cheers. Edited May 21, 2012 by Alec 'Aleb' Mills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 [url="http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html"]Red 5 Audio do some really good mics[/url] (for the money). If you go their drum mic set you'd have a pair of small diaphragm condensors (good for the guitar and piano) 3 tom/snare dynamics (also good on piano, cajon, bass) and a kick mic (good on kick or bass, [size=2][i]but IMO not on both at the same time in one mix[/i][/size][size=4])[/size] Their valve condensors are also v nice for the outlay. A lot better than much of the cheap Chinese mics you can find out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) I have the red audio drum mic set and it is indeeed very versatile! I tend to buy my mics used on here or ebay, i've not bought a dodgy one yet actually the most annoyingly expensive bit for me were the stands and cables... you don't really think about them until it's too late. Edited May 21, 2012 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 +1 for red 5 stuff, i have the valve mic and its great, easily as good as mics that cost double or triple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1337607307' post='1662629'] I have the red audio drum mic set and it is indeeed very versatile! I tend to buy my mics used on here or ebay, i've not bought a dodgy one yet actually the most annoyingly expensive bit for me were the stands and cables... you don't really think about them until it's too late. [/quote] Wait till you need a decent multicore and patchbay.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Too right! I bought some new PA gear a couple of years back. I put together a list of all the cables I needed, plus spares, and a 30m snake with a 16/4 stage box to hook up to my mixer and bang went £400+ Fortunately, I already had a couple of large Peli-cases with wheels in which to safely store and transport them - but they would have originally cost more than the cables! Might be why I get so annoyed when I see people stuffing kinked and knotted cables into old carrier bags! Never underestimate good cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Still better than fabricating that much cable/multicore yourself, costs more in my time to make it than it does to buuy it (for all that I can make it without any issues, #1 solder soldier me) Edited May 21, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyp28 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 check out karma mics http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-6-Ribbon-Microphone/ Also if you can get hold of a SM7, I know people how use that for loads of different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you want a cheap ribbon then do yourself a favour and get a[url="http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_FAT_HEAD_II.html"] Cascade Fathead II[/url] with the Lundahl transformer mod, absolutely gorgeous sounding mic, for guitars, OH, voice (esp a shrill female voice that you need to control), metallic percussion (tames the transients perfectly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337612024' post='1662747'] Wait till you need a decent multicore and patchbay.... [/quote] I make do with my cheap sh*te! Although I did get a decent multi-core/loom on wheels from basschat. As I don't have sound proofing, the only way to disconnect the mics from the noise of my computer is with metres of cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Jimmyp28' timestamp='1337645016' post='1663513'] check out karma mics [url="http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-6-Ribbon-Microphone/"]http://www.karmamics...bon-Microphone/[/url] Also if you can get hold of a SM7, I know people how use that for loads of different things. [/quote] I was trying to remember their name yesterday. I have a pair of the bullet mics and they really are amazing for the money IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) They have some [i]really[/i] interesting kit on that site:- 7 micro SDC's for $99 anyone? [url="http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-Micro-Silver-Bullet-Drum-Pack.html"]http://www.karmamics...-Drum-Pack.html[/url] Or a matched pair for $34? [url="http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-Micro-Matched-Pair.html"]http://www.karmamics...tched-Pair.html[/url] Or a matched pair of SDC's for $129? [url="http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-10-Pencil-Condenser-Microphone.html"]http://www.karmamics...Microphone.html[/url] I'll be looking into these for sure, either of the matched stereo pairs would be great with my Zoom Hn in 4 track mode. Ta! Edited May 22, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 yeh the matched pair of bullets is what I have. I've been using them as overheads and they're great. I actually prefer them to the condensors in the Red Audio drum set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If there is anything to the graphs that are on there then [url="http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-10-Pencil-Condenser-Microphone.html"]the matched pair of sdc[/url] look incredible for the price:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm not sure if I can do any test or anything. I could do sound samples but my pre-amps are probably rubbish and obviously the sound source is subjective etc. I saw them recommended in Tape Op and decided they were too cheap to not try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guildbass Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Right... This is, in my opinion a very cheap and extremely effective route to go for home recording. First... Buy a Yamaha AW2816 or 4416. or, if you are a little more flush, an AW1600. All three are 8/16 channel mixer/recorders and will provide 24bit recording plus all the mixing and excellent Yamaha SPX effects including industry standard reverbs. That means you can stick all manner of compressors and what have you on the inputs and add all manner of wondrousness on the final mix. the older 2816's and 4416's have power sliders so you can do a dynamic mix and it'll remember your slider movements and mimic them for the final mixdown... here's mine doing just that...; [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQRExTgSnT4[/media] Second, pick up a Mackie VLZ3 mixer... not for the mixer bit but because they have stunningly good 'boutique quality' mic pre-amps. You can't buy pre-amps that good for remotely close to what a mackie costs! The 802 having three and the 1202 having 4. You can rig it so just the Mackie pre-amps are working or you can work it so the Mackie's shelving controls are in circuit as well. All the Mackie Pre's are good but the VLZ3's are really good. Good pre-s are very important...without really good transparent pre-amps the best mics will sound mediocre, also, running the Mackie pre-s into the Yamaha line in's gives an extra bit of gain so the Mics can be really sensitive without the front end pre-amps being cranked up to far. For general room, a pair of Behringer C2's are £50 ....and come with a little frame so they can be arranged in ORTF or whatever stereo arrangement you want to play with. They are 48V phantom power small diaphragm condensers and sound pretty nice. The Behringer large condenser studio mics are also very good and dirt cheap. .....In fact most modern large condensers are good these days. Probably one of the best Budget ones is the Rhode NT1A.......A lot of engineers think they are damn close in looks, build and even sound to the equivalent Neumann TLM 102 I've got a cracking sound from my Mackie/yamaha set-up....I can't afford a Rhode NT1A yet! Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 There is nothing industry standard about the Yamaha SPX reverb..... Compared to a convolution reverb impulse from Bricasti (free) running in SIR (free convolution reverb impulse plugin) the Yamaha SPX reverbs will tend to sound very very last millenium IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I've been using real reverb from my room on vocals recently and it sounds so much better! If you have a "roomy room" it's probably cheaper than any hardware. But obviously there are free plug-ins such as 5i's recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guildbass Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337702051' post='1664233'] There is nothing industry standard about the Yamaha SPX reverb..... Compared to a convolution reverb impulse from Bricasti (free) running in SIR (free convolution reverb impulse plugin) the Yamaha SPX reverbs will tend to sound very very last millenium IMO. [/quote] Well, the SPX900 was a revelation when it came out and was an industry 'go to' effects unit in the 90's. At the end of the day we are talking about a powered 24bit desk with mastering and a full effects suite for sometimes well under £300. Mine was used by Steve Wilson to record porcupine Tree's live stuff off the FOH desk and he's pretty fussy about sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guildbass Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1337702838' post='1664258'] I've been using real reverb from my room on vocals recently and it sounds so much better! If you have a "roomy room" it's probably cheaper than any hardware. But obviously there are free plug-ins such as 5i's recommendation [/quote]I'd love to find a room that worked well but without such a luxury it's much nicer to record 'dead' and put the room on afterwards. We recently set up in a house and as soon as I cranked up the old MD409 the room just crushed everything...the ceilings were too low for starters. I've tried in churches too...It IS lovely but you need a time to get the 'room' mic'd up as well as the talent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1337706079' post='1664329'] Well, the SPX900 was a revelation when it came out and was an industry 'go to' effects unit in the 90's. At the end of the day we are talking about a powered 24bit desk with mastering and a full effects suite for sometimes well under £300. Mine was used by Steve Wilson to record porcupine Tree's live stuff off the FOH desk and he's pretty fussy about sound... [/quote] For a hardware device of '90s era it was one in a long line of perfectly good multi fx devices from Yamaha (loads of project studios had them I agree) but in the 90's it was all about Lexicon for reverb and Eventide Ultra-harmonisers for modulation fx. Since Bricasti hardware solutions turned up they've consistently been 'the best' for reverb although a lot of people still love that Lexicon sound. The Eventide stuff is still outrageously powerful too. What I'm trying to say is you can get a taste of that Bricasti sound for free right now [url="http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/"]from here[/url] running them in this here [url="http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.php"]free vst[/url], and it will sound incredible (promise, I use that exact set up for a lot of reverb requirements). Another amazingly superb free vst reverb is the [url="http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/"]Varety of Sound Epicverb[/url], which is every bit as good as the Yamaha ever was. If you want a great plate reverb try [url="http://kunz.corrupt.ch/products/tal-reverb"]Tal II[/url] All free, and sound fantastic in their own ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='guildbass' timestamp='1337706508' post='1664339'] I'd love to find a room that worked well but without such a luxury it's much nicer to record 'dead' and put the room on afterwards. We recently set up in a house and as soon as I cranked up the old MD409 the room just crushed everything...the ceilings were too low for starters. I've tried in churches too...It IS lovely but you need a time to get the 'room' mic'd up as well as the talent... [/quote] Agreed. Finding a good room where you can let rip is (that you can afford) is a complete swine. Guerrilla recordings are great fun if you can find somewhere good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guildbass Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337709444' post='1664376'] For a hardware device of '90s era it was one in a long line of perfectly good multi fx devices from Yamaha (loads of project studios had them I agree) but in the 90's it was all about Lexicon for reverb and Eventide Ultra-harmonisers for modulation fx. Since Bricasti hardware solutions turned up they've consistently been 'the best' for reverb although a lot of people still love that Lexicon sound. The Eventide stuff is still outrageously powerful too. What I'm trying to say is you can get a taste of that Bricasti sound for free right now [url="http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/"]from here[/url] running them in this here [url="http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.php"]free vst[/url], and it will sound incredible (promise, I use that exact set up for a lot of reverb requirements). Another amazingly superb free vst reverb is the [url="http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/"]Varety of Sound Epicverb[/url], which is every bit as good as the Yamaha ever was. If you want a great plate reverb try [url="http://kunz.corrupt.ch/products/tal-reverb"]Tal II[/url] All free, and sound fantastic in their own ways. [/quote] Hah! OK... Well if i could learn how to get those sounds into the yam I'd certainly give it a go. Truth is though,nine times out of ten the punters couldn't tell the sound of the Sidney Opera house from someone yelling into a metal shipping container... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I dont think it would be possible. What you might be able to do is get the individual tracks off the Yamaha on to a mnodern PC, and from there the world is your ostrich. What you have is a perfectly acceptable and cheap (though very dated, and by today's standards limited in power and quality to quite a large degree) means of recording and mixing the stuff you do. I am not knocking it, I've done perfectly repsectable work on far less powerful kit. And getting something to work for tracking for less money is pretty tricky. Although the Zoom R16 can be had for less than £300, and mixing can be done on that device or its trivial to import the tracks from teh SD card to a PC for mixdown. However a truly seriously powerful desktop PC can be had new for around [url="http://www.ebuyer.com/338540-zoostorm-premium-desktop-pc-7873-0408"]£570[/url] these days, add a decent audio interface (yeah I know, money trap or what!) and you can be tracking and mixing in the DAW of your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1337709559' post='1664379'] Finding a good room where you can let rip is (that you can afford) is a complete swine. [/quote] Sorry, yes, I forget how lucky I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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