Fretless/roundwounds issues

[RobJF]

Chasing that good old Jaco tone, I put roundwound strings on my fretless Jazz Bass. The sound is now great but I have a couple of concerns.

I bought the guitar new and it's in super condition, but the fingerboard won't stay that way for very long with the roundwounds being rubbed up against it, I guess. Is it really a good idea to coat it with a hard varnish, as some people do? If so, any varnish recommendations? Other comments?

Also, because the E string machine head peg is in perfect alignment with the nut slot, and the string is narrower, when I try to play an open E it's badly out of tune, because it's vibrating from the peg instead of the nut. What can I do about that?

[LiamPodmore]

The nut issue, may be a stupid question but do you wind your strings down the post instead of up? Winding them downwards can create more of a break angle over the nut so that it's making proper contact.

Liam

[BassBus]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1337700077' post='1664167']
The nut issue, may be a stupid question but do you wind your strings down the post instead of up? Winding them downwards can create more of a break angle over the nut so that it's making proper contact.
[/quote]

Yeh I'd say that too. Maybe put a couple of extra winds too, might help to get the string down a little further.

On coating the board. It's often an epoxy coating players use. I don't have my board coated at all as I want the sound of string on wood. Someone commented on this on a recent thread. When you have the board coated it's like playing a string on a plastic fingerboard.

I use halfwound strings. They give most of the brightness of a round but without the damage to the board. Others will say they have used rounds on fretless boards for years without any problems. At the end of the day it comes down to personal taste. I get a lovely 'Jacoy' tone with the halfwounds on my Jazz fretless and they are really quite old now.

Edited May 22, 2012 by BassBus

[Dolando]

I looked at coating my custom Jazz with epoxy but mines got an ebony board so as soon as i found out id loose that tone i was put off by the idea. I use the rotosound Jazz bass flatwounds and still get a jaco sound when i have the neck pickuo turned down. Its just not got as much bite but i quite like it, i also like how smooth they are on slides and how you can get that thumpy double bass tone.

@BassBus - Out of interest what halfwounds do you use?

[RobJF]

I'm supposed to be following this topic but I haven't had one email yet!

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1337700077' post='1664167']
The nut issue, may be a stupid question but do you wind your strings down the post instead of up? Winding them downwards can create more of a break angle over the nut so that it's making proper contact.
[/quote]
Not a stupid question, it's me should be feeling stupid! I normally wind down but had a bit difficulty with that string and it ended up wound up. I'll have another go at it.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1337700845' post='1664199']
On coating the board. It's often an epoxy coating players use. I don't have my board coated at all as I want the sound of string on wood. Someone commented on this on a recent thread. When you have the board coated it's like playing a string on a plastic fingerboard.
[/quote]
Well I don't want that! Thanks, hadn't really thought about that aspect.

[quote]
I use halfwound strings. They give most of the brightness of a round but without the damage to the board. Others will say they have used rounds on fretless boards for years without any problems. At the end of the day it comes down to personal taste. I get a lovely 'Jacoy' tone with the halfwounds on my Jazz fretless and they are really quite old now.
[/quote]
OK, that's useful. I'll probably see how it goes and switch to half rounds if/when I see damage starting.

[BassBus]

[quote name='Dolando' timestamp='1337703677' post='1664284']
@BassBus - Out of interest what halfwounds do you use?
[/quote]

I have an old set of Hotwires halfwounds on at the moment. I bought another set recently for another bass but they don't have nearly the same brightness. Must contact Status to ask if it's just a batch problem or if the 'formula' has changed.

[BigRedX]

Two issues here.

Firstly the age-old round-wound strings and fingerboard wear conundrum. IME only poor quality fingerboard woods get worn badly by round-wound strings. One of my fretless basses is over 25 years old and has been well used over this time with nickel round-wounds, but the wear on the rosewood fingerboard is still only minimal.

The thing is if you like the sound that you are currently getting from your bass, both changing the strings to something supposedly less abrasive and coating the fingerboard will alter that sound. It might be an improvement IYO but you won't know until you do it and coating the fingerboard is not an easily reversible modification should you decide that it's made your bass sound worse. The best fingerboard coating IMO is whatever it is that Pedulla use on their Buzz range of basses.

You can try changing strings, but if it's the Jaco sound you are after it's all about the round-wound strings. You can get a Mwah out of flat-wounds but it's not the same as the classic round-wound mwah. Again the only way to see if it's right for you is to try some different strings - there have been some suggestions already in this thread.

As for your string vibrating behind the nut problem that's down to the design of the Fender headstock which requires you wrap more string around the E and A machine heads then should be strictly necessary. I've found that you need at 3-4 full turns (depending on string gauge) around the E and 4-5 around the A machine head post both winding down the post to get sufficient break angle over the nut.

[RobJF]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1337844586' post='1666162']...
[/quote]
Thanks, much useful and interesting info there.

[brensabre79]

FWIW, Jaco epoxied his fingerboard, having first removed the frets. If you want the Jaco tone (whats wrong with yours?) then that would be the way to go, also your roundwound strings won't eat away the rosewood board then. BUT you will probably devalue the bass if its not original. Even if you do a great job.

[RobJF]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1337864130' post='1666576']
FWIW, Jaco epoxied his fingerboard, having first removed the frets.
[/quote]
Good point, assuming it's true. (Not doubting you, but I've heard he used marine varnish, which is very unlikely, at least if it means spar varnish, because that's relatively soft to accommodate flexing, it's a myth that marine varnish is specially hard.)

[quote]
If you want the Jaco tone (whats wrong with yours?)...
[/quote]
Umm, I like his better. What's wrong with that?

[MrTaff]

Jaco originally only played a fretless live because the strings chewed up the neck, around 2:55 into the video

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfJ2f52ox7o[/media]

Edited May 24, 2012 by MrTaff

[brensabre79]

I think it was Marine Epoxy, not Marine Varnish. The epoxy helps the 'mwah' apparently. I have not epoxied my fretless though, I use half round LaBella's on there but I don't sound like Jaco

[BigRedX]

[quote name='RobJF' timestamp='1337867508' post='1666697']
Umm, I like his better. What's wrong with that?
[/quote]

Unfortunately for you the biggest part of Jaco's tone is Jaco himself not his bass.

[RobJF]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1337875471' post='1666867']
Unfortunately for you the biggest part of Jaco's tone is Jaco himself not his bass.
[/quote]
That depends on how you define "tone". I don't pretend I'm capable of playing with his style or technique. But I've recently managed to get quite close to his tone, as I understand the word ("timbre" is the technical term for it). That makes me happy, not because I sound like him -- I certainly don't -- but because I love that sound!

[Andyjr1515]

D'Addario Chromes - sound like round wound, feel line flatwound. I use them on fretted and fretless basses and personally wouldn't use anything else. Just my preference, of course.

[MoonBassAlpha]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1337889462' post='1667092']
D'Addario Chromes - sound like round wound, feel line flatwound. I use them on fretted and fretless basses and personally wouldn't use anything else. Just my preference, of course.
[/quote]
In my experience, Chromes sound nothing like round wound strings. They do feel nice though.

[mcnach]

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1337839716' post='1666120']
I have an old set of Hotwires halfwounds on at the moment. I bought another set recently for another bass but they don't have nearly the same brightness. Must contact Status to ask if it's just a batch problem or if the 'formula' has changed.
[/quote]

I had that before. In fact in the same set, it seemed mixed. They replied to me without acknowledging any issue and was left with a crap set. Never bought Status since. I still use one set of flats, but not buying more new sets.

[mcnach]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1338292640' post='1672182']
In my experience, Chromes sound nothing like round wound strings. They do feel nice though.
[/quote]

+1