Esparanza on Jools

[KiOgon]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337858671' post='1666436']
With respect, this is the sort of attitude BC is full of, and it's one I can't stand. You seem to be infatuated with the instrument instead of the music. From what I saw, she is a composer, bass is her channel, not the object. She's a MUSICIAN, not a MECHANIC. She plays THROUGH the instrument, not ON it.

The Olympics is coming soon, perhaps you may find more enjoyment in that?
[/quote]
As I've been disabled since I was 19 I don't find the Olympics very enjoyable, maybe the Paralympics would be better for me?

She's a musician fine, just one I've not knowingly listened to before & what I heard of her playing on Jools did not impress me regardless of what instrument she was playing.

[xilddx]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1337859556' post='1666473']
Come on Nige, you're coming across as a bit 'judge, jury and executioner' of late!! 'This country' etc... there's room for everyone's opinion and nothing is more subjective than music.
[/quote]

Mmm, I don't really see it that way, I'm only stating my opinion mate, strongly phrased though it is I suppose. It wasn't some sort of attack on BC which is why I presume you picked out that line, it's really just that I find the role of the bass is often elevated to supernovae-like proportions on BC quite often. It's the music that's important, so when someone says 'still room for more bass' like the bass is the most important part of the band, to the exclusion of all the other instruments and vocal AND SPACE for which there is theoretically also 'more room', I feel the need to help the poor soul

[xilddx]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1337860138' post='1666485']
[b]As I've been disabled since I was 19 I don't find the Olympics very enjoyable, maybe the Paralympics would be better for me?[/b]

She's a musician fine, just one I've not knowingly listened to before & what I heard of her playing on Jools did not impress me regardless of what instrument she was playing.
[/quote]

Firstly, sorry you have a disability, but as Francesca Martinez said recently, once someone told her 'you are NOT disabled, you are FRANCESCA and you are unique' it changed her life completely.

Again with respect, you have sort of reinforced my point somewhat, in that (intentionally or otherwise) you imply you only enjoy things you feel you might be capable of or do already. Although I feel sure that's can't really be the case.

[ped]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337860593' post='1666494']
Mmm, I don't really see it that way, I'm only stating my opinion mate, strongly phrased though it is I suppose. It wasn't some sort of attack on BC which is why I presume you picked out that line, it's really just that I find the role of the bass is often elevated to supernovae-like proportions on BC quite often. It's the music that's important, so when someone says 'still room for more bass' like the bass is the most important part of the band, to the exclusion of all the other instruments and vocal AND SPACE for which there is theoretically also 'more room', I feel the need to help the poor soul
[/quote]

It wasn't especially because you mentioned BC but just because I find comments that blanket whole groups of people, 'This country, we are a nation of, etc' actually are part of the problem!

I think we talk ourselves into thinking we're a moaning, skint bunch of sods! I was listening to an interesting thing on LBC the other day and it made me think - if you go into Reading shopping centre at the weekend, look at the cars people are driving, look at how much people are buying and how full Nandos is, nobody seems THAT skint!

Sorry, going slightly off topic and not directed at you personally Nige. Just made me remember that point.

[xilddx]

Well if you listen to LBC of course you are going to hear sh*te like that. There is a great deal of adult and child poverty, and deprivation, in the UK. You won't see these people in Nandos, or driving anything at all. Or shopping.

I see an enormous amount of disabled parking spaces now, but I haven't seen any of those little pale blue three wheel cars for donkey's years. That must mean medical and technological advancement has reduced the number of people with disabilities to almost nothing.

[Oldman]

Well, I had read about Esperanza in the usual publications and found it hard to believe that a "Chick" could hack it. I was impressed with the overall sound of the band, the musical style and the way she fronted the band. I am looking forward to Friday, you get a singing bass player fronting a band, writing, arranging and all the "Jazz" that goes with it, it takes a special kind of individual to do that, Esperanza does it in spades.

For me anyway.

[ped]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337863009' post='1666537']
Well if you listen to LBC of course you are going to hear sh*te like that.[/quote]

Yeah, I know it's not EVERYONE but most people portray everyone in the UK as barely able to survive. Anyway, never mind.

[xilddx]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1337863291' post='1666544']
Yeah, I know it's not EVERYONE [b]but most people portray everyone in the UK as barely able to survive[/b]. Anyway, never mind.
[/quote]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1337862362' post='1666521']
[b]It wasn't especially because you mentioned BC but just because I find comments that blanket whole groups of people[/b], 'This country, we are a nation of, etc' [b]actually are part of the problem![/b]
[/quote]

Come on, Chris, using 'MOST' does not let you off the hook here

I don't recall anyone saying most UK residents are 'barely able to survive'. If they did, then it was probably because they have a political agenda, obfuscating the facts and trying to influence those who are uninformed or ill-informed to throw rocks at their scapegoat.

[ped]

[paul_5]

I couldn't really hear the bass on my little telly-box, but her voice was incredible - the song was (compositionally speaking) brilliant too. One of those artists on my "must hear more of" list.

[KiOgon]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337861435' post='1666503']
Firstly, sorry you have a disability, but as Francesca Martinez said recently, once someone told her 'you are NOT disabled, you are FRANCESCA and you are unique' it changed her life completely.

Again with respect, you have sort of reinforced my point somewhat, in that (intentionally or otherwise) you imply you only enjoy things you feel you might be capable of or do already. Although I feel sure that's can't really be the case.
[/quote]
[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337863009' post='1666537']
Well if you listen to LBC of course you are going to hear sh*te like that. There is a great deal of adult and child poverty, and deprivation, in the UK. You won't see these people in Nandos, or driving anything at all. Or shopping.

I see an enormous amount of disabled parking spaces now, but I haven't seen any of those little pale blue three wheel cars for donkey's years. That must mean medical and technological advancement has reduced the number of people with disabilities to almost nothing.
[/quote]

Hey Nige,
No need for any sorry's thanks mate, I did what I did on a Norton in 1970 & I've been ME ever since, in fact before & after no worries
I don't share your point of view, I consider my 42 years since '70 have been full of many many things, various jobs, here & overseas, hobbies, marriage-kids-divorce, in bands out of bands etc. etc. & my taste in music is I would say right across the board. Just because I heard something on a TV show, a singer player who I knew by name only & she did less than blow me away, I thought my POV was relevant to the thread.

As for disabled parking spaces they're as rare as a 60's Jazz bass round here & the blue 3 wheelers often referred to in derogatory terms as 'spaz cabs' have long since been replaced by battery driven 'mobility scooters, you surely must have seen a few of them around? Perhaps they're the 'technological advancement' in terms of medical advancement, yes I wouldn't be able to walk at all if it wasn't for joint replacements

Anyway, let's not go on about disabilities, I'm sure it's the first time I've mentioned mine since I've been on here, we've each & all got our problems, yes we're individuals, we get on with it.

Cheerz, John

[urb]

Back on topic I checked this out and I think the mix for the bass was pretty crap (the bass lines on the albums are great and really well played, she has a cool tone as well on electric) - having seen ES live she really does have talented by the truck load - what interests me is to see if she can really funk it up for a whole gig doing this stuff - I'm a big fan of hers and like Nige has rightly pointed out the music here is brilliantly written/arranged and the band are killing - Esperanza, like Robert Glasper and quite a number of other bona fide jazzers, are pushing 'jazz' into the mainstream without killing its vibrancy - sure these are songs and that's all good but the attitude and playing is bang on... YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE JAZZ TO LIKE THIS - Maybe I'll get that tattooed someday... I get kind of tired of saying it - thankfully Esperanza and others like her are doing it for me now.

M

[Hutton]

When I listen to any music I either like it or I don't. Sure there are some genres that I gravitate towards more than others but I don't slavishly follow them to the exclusion of others. I am quite used to people saying to me "you surely don't like that do you?" to which I reply "yes I do". I just listen and that's where the pleasure comes from.

[uncle psychosis]

I normally like her but that performance did nothing for me. can't quite put my finger on it.

[KennysFord]

I just watched in on Youtube and was, as always by her, blown away. I struggle to sing a simple harmony part whilst playing so for me, her rhythmic playing.....and singing just leaves me in awe of her.
I think she's bloody fabulous, I like Tal too hehe.

[xilddx]

I just had another listen/watch. It's a very structured bass line, very clever arrangement too. Maybe I listen to too much Zappa or summat, but it seemed very accessible music to me, and it did actually bring to mind Tinseltown Rebellion era Zappa (without the biting lyrics but with added jazzisms), especially the middle section with the chromatic walking bass (LOVE the slur to the accented 1 in the second bar!), I can almost substitute her voice for Ray White's on that bit. And I love the fast section that precedes it with the bass on the sharp 7th.

Aside from that, the horns are very cool, the drums are thrilling in parts, and she has a lovely voice with lush harmony BVs. Did I say the arrangement is superb too? Yes, it's natural and very organic. And FUN! Remember fun?

I'll get the album on the strength of this.

EDIT: Downloading now

Edited May 24, 2012 by silddx

[Hutton]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337890530' post='1667118']
I'll get the album on the strength of this.
[/quote]

Me too!

[xilddx]

The ones I've heard so far are masterful. And not a sniff of testosterone-fuelled competitive jazz bullshit. This is oestrogen-rich vibrant, playful, and compelling. No crass Norah Jones mum music here.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337890530' post='1667118']
it did actually bring to mind Tinseltown Rebellion era Zappa
[/quote]

Maybe thats why I didn't like it...

[wombatboter]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1337890530' post='1667118']
I just had another listen/watch. It's a very structured bass line, very clever arrangement too. Maybe I listen to too much Zappa or summat, but it seemed very accessible music to me, and it did actually bring to mind Tinseltown Rebellion era Zappa (without the biting lyrics but with added jazzisms), especially the middle section with the chromatic walking bass (LOVE the slur to the accented 1 in the second bar!), I can almost substitute her voice for Ray White's on that bit. And I love the fast section that precedes it with the bass on the sharp 7th.

Aside from that, the horns are very cool, the drums are thrilling in parts, and she has a lovely voice with lush harmony BVs. Did I say the arrangement is superb too? Yes, it's natural and very organic. And FUN! Remember fun?

I'll get the album on the strength of this.

EDIT: Downloading now
[/quote]

I was always very fond of her voice and her playing whenever she appeared on YT...I couldn't wait to get her first cd and put it on in the car during a long drive (that's when I can enjoy music the most).
After hearing the cd, I was sure that I never wanted to hear it again. The compositions were musician's music with heavy arrangements without the talent of writing a simple hook or melody which you can remember.
After four or five songs in a row my brain wanted to explode after one of the many "boodoepidoe" "poetsiewoeboedoe" and other "tunes" I had already forgotten after ten seconds. I am used to hearing jazzy tunes, I have no problem listening to fusion music and nice chord changes (I can listen to a complete Matt Garrison cd without any problem) but Esperanza's music got on my nerves in a way that rarely happens. I gave the cd to a friend because I never wanted to hear it ever again. Quite sure that it would never grow on me since I found it tiring and overcomplicated in its attempt to sound "mature". When I saw her on Jools, it all came back to me. Nice song but try listening to this a couple of times in a row, let alone a full album.. It was impossible to me without getting a headache.

[Hutton]

Surely all of this is matter of opinion. However, it doesn't do any harm to express our thoughts on anyone's music. Some like some artists, some others. I personally like Esparanza and I don't really care who doesn't, just as I wouldn't expect anyone else to like what I like. It's all music folks.

[Cyrene]

[quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1337863056' post='1666539']
Well, I had read about Esperanza in the usual publications and found it hard to believe that a "Chick" could hack it. I was impressed with the overall sound of the band, the musical style and the way she fronted the band. I am looking forward to Friday, you get a singing bass player fronting a band, writing, arranging and all the "Jazz" that goes with it, it takes a special kind of individual to do that, Esperanza does it in spades.

For me anyway.
[/quote]

Absolutely. For what it's worth, the "jazz Nazis" amongst the critics appear very taken with her.

[wombatboter]

To me it was again proof that if you're a great singer or musician that you're not automatically a good composer...
Too many musicians with great skills want to put all of that on their cd.. I had the same feeling listening to Tal Wilkenfeld's cd.
I know musicians with lesser skills who can write a melody which is haunting and catchy while others loose themselves in compositions which I find tiring..
I always enjoyed Jaco far more playing bass for others than on his own cd's for instance..
But it's indeed all a matter of opinion..

[xilddx]

[quote name='wombatboter' timestamp='1337932624' post='1667496']
I was always very fond of her voice and her playing whenever she appeared on YT...I couldn't wait to get her first cd and put it on in the car during a long drive (that's when I can enjoy music the most).
After hearing the cd, I was sure that I never wanted to hear it again. The compositions were musician's music with heavy arrangements without the talent of writing a simple hook or melody which you can remember.
After four or five songs in a row my brain wanted to explode after one of the many "boodoepidoe" "poetsiewoeboedoe" and other "tunes" I had already forgotten after ten seconds. I am used to hearing jazzy tunes, I have no problem listening to fusion music and nice chord changes (I can listen to a complete Matt Garrison cd without any problem) but Esperanza's music got on my nerves in a way that rarely happens. I gave the cd to a friend because I never wanted to hear it ever again. Quite sure that it would never grow on me since I found it tiring and overcomplicated in its attempt to sound "mature". When I saw her on Jools, it all came back to me. Nice song but try listening to this a couple of times in a row, let alone a full album.. It was impossible to me without getting a headache.
[/quote]

I'ves listened to most of the album three times now. And I have sympathy for what you are saying. I am indeed tiring of it already, it seems to me to be better live. I think most 'jazz' does. I quite enjoy it live, on record there is nothing I like. The album, while having a few political messages in it sounds a bit twee to me already, too much sugar coating, too sickly sweet, but that's really the vocals and lyrics that are doing that. I don't know why, but most jazzers just don't seem to give much of a sh*t about anything but music, they need to live more like the original jazzers, so they have something related to life's travails to imbue their music with. Esperanza has certainly lived which may be why I liked it more, but I have to say the album is a bit soupy, it's ok though, I'll still listen to it.

At least it didn't make me react in the way my experimental purchase of the last Jeff Berlin did. Even eating oysters and malt whiskey didn't make me projectile vomit in the way Jeff Berlin did.

[scalpy]

Lots of playing not much music. More cerebral than soulful. Nice Aguliar rig.