Rate my rig (going to buy next weekend), thoughts and opinions welcome...

[Muzz]

+1 for an afternoon (actually, with your budget go for the day) at Bass Direct. You'll learn an awful lot about what you like, what you don't like, and what you thought you liked but actually don't and what you thought you didn't like, but.... well, you see where I'm going here. Mark's a great guy, knows his onions, and with respect it sounds like you could use some very knowledgeable advice.

[largo]

I've had amps & especially cabs that have sounded great in the shop & crap in a band mix, and vice-versa. The Schroeder being one in particular!

[cytania]

Definately worth trying various makes. They tend to have a family sound. Mark Bass would suggest you are after a modern sound, but going for Tube suggests you maybe want a retro tone but I suspect it won't take you to Ampeg-land which is what I think I see behind Maroon 5's bassist on the Voice. It is possible to fake vintage tone I recently stumbled on putting my BDI21 though the SWR's effects loop with SVT-alike settings. Can then blend modern clean with tubey bloom. Mark Bass trys to cover this with a VLE control, not sure how close it is.

If you are a beginner then consider getting a cheap Pod/Cube/Zoom type unit that lets you cycle through amp simulations. They may not be the real thing but you can quickly sharpen up your tastes and get a load of one-trick effects fun out your system. Consider the cost money saved aginst getting all sorts of pedals and pre-doodads you'll tire of.

The compressor and booster sort of cancels themselves out. I'm sure both are useful but the compressor weights all you strings the same and removes playing expression, so then you have to kick in the booster to reintroduce umph. Better to leave more headroom, get used to playing lightly with energy (untiringly) then quite naturally you'll dig in when things get exciting and the amp will show that.

[TRBboy]

Personally I would say that if you're considering a Fender Deluxe Jazz, get a Sandberg! Better quality for less money.


I'm genuinely amazed that so many people can't get their heads around mixing 10's and 15's! People have been doing it for decades! You get the get the gut rumbling lows from the 15 and more punch and focus from the 10's. I've always had both! Used to have a Trace 4x10" and 1x15" stack for about 10 years, and now I've got a 2x10" markbass combo and 1x15" ext cab.

My advice would be go for a 2x10" and 1x15", then use the 2x10" for small gigs/rehearsal. Mind you, I planned to do this but I end up taking the 1x15" everywhere too because the 10's just don't hit the spot for me on their own!

[xgsjx]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1338250246' post='1671764']
I'm genuinely amazed that so many people can't get their heads around mixing 10's and 15's! People have been doing it for decades! You get the get the gut rumbling lows from the 15 and more punch and focus from the 10's. I've always had both! Used to have a Trace 4x10" and 1x15" stack for about 10 years, and now I've got a 2x10" markbass combo and 1x15" ext cab.
[/quote]

You should spend a little time in the Amps & Cabs section, there's one or two debates in there about it.
The main reason for mixing driver sizes is marteting. If you look at the specs on Mark Bass' website you'll see that your combo & the 151P both go down to 40hz.
If you added a 102HF you'd get the same amount of bass as you are with the 151P. It has nothing to do with the driver's diameter & all to do with the cab design.
Have a look on Barefaced's website if you don't believe me.

[thumbo]

Get the bass you're after first, then try it through a bunch of different rigs. Since you're close to Bass Direct it would be wise to spend some time there as others have mentioned.

I personally wouldn't bother with the booster but would definitely look into getting a compression pedal. There's been a few odd comments about compression in this thread that I think are misleading. Using compression isn't all about completely removing dynamics from your sound and I think you may find a touch of compression useful with a 5 string Fender Jazz, although the only way to really find out is to try out some compression pedals once your up and running with the bass and amp.

[Muzz]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1338250246' post='1671764']
I'm genuinely amazed that so many people can't get their heads around mixing 10's and 15's! People have been doing it for decades! You get the get the gut rumbling lows from the 15 and more punch and focus from the 10's. I've always had both! Used to have a Trace 4x10" and 1x15" stack for about 10 years, and now I've got a 2x10" markbass combo and 1x15" ext cab.
[/quote]

I've got a 2x15 which is punchier and has less lows than my last 4x10. It's much, much less to do with the speaker sizes and much, much more to do with the cabs. A visit to Bass Direct will demonstrate this admirably.

[sk8]

Bass Direct - the answer is there

[bassickman]

Guys, many thanks. Your thoughts have been heard. I'm off to Bass direct today to check it out.

[bassickman]

[quote name='dc2009' timestamp='1338197091' post='1670545']
I assume you have tried the rig, but personally I'm not a fan of Markbass gear because IMO I find it hard to get the tone I like (which is very similar to yours) with them. If you can get the sound from them then that's great, but there's definitely other bass amp manufacturers that would be ahead of Markbass on my list if I was looking to get that kind of tone. Ampeg would probably top the list.
[/quote]

Whats hartke like?

[bassickman]

Any Genz benz fans?

[sk8]

Yes there will be. Just go to Bass Direct and try a load of gear.

[sk8]

If it were me i would be looking at a Shuttle 9.2 and two Vanderkley 112s

[Raggy]

[quote name='sk8' timestamp='1338282969' post='1671959']
Yes there will be. Just go to Bass Direct and try a load of gear.
[/quote]

This ^

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338282914' post='1671955']
Whats hartke like?
[/quote] supposedly some of the best bang for buck out there. the amps look good, I don't like the cabs much

[dc2009]

[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338282914' post='1671955']
Whats hartke like?
[/quote]

I'm a big fan and would very much recommend it , if I had the money I'd possibly trade it in for an Ampeg, but nothing else on the market really floats my boat. I use a Warwick so the sound I get is slightly more aggressive (a bit more attack) than perhaps the one you're after, but I'm a big fan of the RHCP and Maroon 5 bass tones.

As for Hartke amps, they're great for a crystal clear sound and their aluminium cones are fantastic. Their older range was the HAxxxx series heads, which had a great graphic EQ, and had both tube and solid state preamps inside them, along with a great way to blend the two sounds, in this respect, they were very versatile. They went best (IMO) with the alu-coned TP/XL series cabs rather than the paper coned VX series ones. You can pick any of these up second hand seriously cheaply at the moment.

Their newer range is the Hy-Drive series, it's a bit more expensive but probably cheaper than a new markbass rig, it's all tube preamp, with hybrid paper/alu cones. I would say some of the best value for money you can get right now, and I'd imagine they'd go great with a J bass for the tone you're after, preamp upgrade or not! They're also quite popular at the moment, which means resale value is relatively high for the timebeing.

[JTUK]

Just try as many amps/cabs combos that you can and let your ears sort out what you like....
It seems the best thing you can do is get some perspective..then go chasing after what the
quality of some of the stuff you now have actually heard is like.

You shouldn't go shopping on heresay...but you can use that to point you in a certain direction.
Do your research and don't be too desperate to walk out of a shop with what you have been told
is good gear...until you can back it up with a bit of knowledge and experience.

You shouldn't buy what looks prety and then have to work at it very hard to make the whole rig sound ok..

The bass should sound great..which is why you buy it. The amp and cab should compliment its inherrent sound
and hopefully enhance it a bit...

Go chasing a certain sound is asking for a lot of trouble and frustration if your set-up doesn't lend it self to that sound.
You'll turn up at every gig..trying to get this 'lost' sound and it will be a a big fat pain in the a***...

When have tried a few things and have more focus, then you can narrow it down by make, quality, cab config and anything else that
you decide you would like.

[JTUK]

oh..and ditch the pedals idea for the moment..you don't want another huge variable getting in the way.

[sk8]

I would just take your current bass and try out a load of different combinations and go from there

[TRBboy]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1338281645' post='1671932']


I've got a 2x15 which is punchier and has less lows than my last 4x10. It's much, much less to do with the speaker sizes and much, much more to do with the cabs. A visit to Bass Direct will demonstrate this admirably.
[/quote]

Are your cabs the same brand, power handling and impedance? I would be quite surprised to hear a difference like that if they are. You're right though, the cab construction, type of drivers, etc, etc does all make a difference. But if you do have two "matching" cabs by the same manufacturer with different size drivers in, they will sound different.

Mark at Bass Direct is a great guy, (and I know I'll get shot down for this!) but I think some people on here think that his opinion is gospel and is 100% right all the time. Don't forget he is a business man and is there to sell what's in his shop too.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1338275983' post='1671838']


You should spend a little time in the Amps & Cabs section, there's one or two debates in there about it.
The main reason for mixing driver sizes is marteting. If you look at the specs on Mark Bass' website you'll see that your combo & the 151P both go down to 40hz.
If you added a 102HF you'd get the same amount of bass as you are with the 151P. It has nothing to do with the driver's diameter & all to do with the cab design.
Have a look on Barefaced's website if you don't believe me.
[/quote]

I disagree about the marketing thing. In fact THAT'S more likely to be a marketing line from the guys peddling the smaller speakers. It's not about the frequencies themselves, but more the way that different size driver units handle them, and the physics of the driver movement. A larger driver will move slightly differently to a smaller driver, and moves more air each time. There has to be a characteristic difference in the sound. Cab design and construction does make a difference, but if you have two "matching" cabs from the same manufacturer that are the same power handling and impedance, but different sized drivers, there WILL be a difference.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1338360435' post='1673122']
I disagree about the marketing thing. In fact THAT'S more likely to be a marketing line from the guys peddling the smaller speakers. It's not about the frequencies themselves, but more the way that different size driver units handle them, and the physics of the driver movement. A larger driver will move slightly differently to a smaller driver, and moves more air each time. There has to be a characteristic difference in the sound. Cab design and construction does make a difference, but if you have two "matching" cabs from the same manufacturer that are the same power handling and impedance, but different sized drivers, there WILL be a difference.
[/quote]

I agree that they may sound different, but it doesn't equate to 15"s being able to put out more bass than 10"s do.
Having 2 different sized drivers means you're gonna get 2 different sizes of sound waves & at certain frequencies they'll cut or boost (which frequencies they are depends on the venue), which means at some venues you'll sound great & at others, not so great. It leaves you with unpredictable results when going to a new venue.
Having 2 identical cabs with the same drivers means you're producing sound waves that are all the same size. So if you like the sound of a cab, adding another will give you more of the same. Like someone else said, if you use 2 different cabs for different sounds, wouldn't it make sense to have 2 EQs to get both cabs set up properly?

There's a few cab builders on here that use 10", 12" & 15" drivers. Here's some info that might (or might not) shed some light...

http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm

[JTUK]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1338357579' post='1673114']
Mark at Bass Direct is a great guy, (and I know I'll get shot down for this!) but I think some people on here think that his opinion is gospel and is 100% right all the time. Don't forget he is a business man and is there to sell ...................
[/quote]

Of course... but this applies to others on here as well....
The reason for that suggestion from my POV is that the OP does not seem to know much and is asking some pretty basic questions...so he needs to go to a shop with a large
selection and hear for himself.
He seems to be taken quite a lot of verbal advice whereas he needs to hear whats on offer.

He seems to have gotten most of his ideas from people talking about stuff and then wants the view on here to endorse..or not.
IIRC..he has asked about valves, Hartke and Ampeg.. as well as starting the OP off on Markbass.... so..err... quite a range of sounds there, IMO.


The only correct thing so far has been to come on here and get advice to slow down ..rather than walk into a shop and come out with a bass, amp and cab and a few pedals..all in one hit.
He needs to realise...and understand...as do quite a few others that parrot the same line over and over.. that the science falls behind the sound. You can't justify that the gear 'should' sound great scientifically, if it doesn't actually work out like that

Buying blind and on heresay is not the cleverest thing to do .. and certainly not from a load of guys of whom you know nothing about in terms of what or how they play, like, want themselves, and if you do do that..then at least know your punt can go either or any way.

Edited May 30, 2012 by JTUK

[xgsjx]

+1 for that.

[Muzz]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1338357579' post='1673114']
Are your cabs the same brand, power handling and impedance? I would be quite surprised to hear a difference like that if they are. You're right though, the cab construction, type of drivers, etc, etc does all make a difference. But if you do have two "matching" cabs by the same manufacturer with different size drivers in, they will sound different.

Mark at Bass Direct is a great guy, (and I know I'll get shot down for this!) but I think some people on here think that his opinion is gospel and is 100% right all the time. Don't forget he is a business man and is there to sell what's in his shop too.
[/quote]

Nope, they weren't, but then power handling and impedance refers to just the speakers, not the cab. Another way to illustrate this would be the Schroeders: the 1210 and the 1515 will sound more like each other than they will compared with other cabs, not because they have similar drivers (10", 12" and 15"), but because the cabs have similar designs. Put the two Celestion 15s in my Schroeder into a different cab, and they will sound very different.

Even talking purely about speaker size, there's clearly a huge marketing influence, because, as has been thrashed out many times on here by people who know tons more about it than me, the DIAMETER of a modern speaker does not dictate the frequency of the sound it produces - 15s do not always produce more lows than 10s, so why would the mantra about 15s (bottom) and 10s (top) persist, if the manufacturers didn't keep making them for people who know what they like and like what they know? It's a conspiracy, I tell ya...

As far as Mark at bass Direct is concerned, he talks more sense (and knows how to listen, a much under-regarded skill) than a lot of people I've met in music shops, but I don't think anyone is suggesting he knows everything. That's our job here on forums . For the record, he's never sold me a cab - I like Schroeders. As far as the OP is concerned, though, his shop is a great resource worth investigating. As an example, I'd never tried a Dingwall before I went there, but I also never realised how much I don't like the Shuttle series, or the Mark Bass Tubes, either. That saved me a few quid finding out. Lord knows, he might even suggest to the OP a 1x15, 4x10 stack...