The old "do I really NEED effects", or "whats the point in effects" argument...

[basexperience]

This is an interesting thread, and I have a new perspective on it. I've had some form of effect in my chain for a long time now, but in the last band I only really used a little Q-tron, with the bass POD essentially just providing some colour and boost (the amp does have a couple of channels but it's vale/solid state).

The new project (2 weeks old now) is with a vocalist who adores mixing wildly eclectic styles, and myself and the guitarist both decided to go nuts and bring pretty much every effect and noise making thing we could drive from our instruments. As a result, my chain was the 6 string, into a GR20 via the GK pickup (giving me the ability to mix bass and synth with the synth on its own volume pedal), into a BOSS synth pedal (analog), into the Q-tron, into the bass POD, and finally into the amp.

So far the weirdest sound has been bass+piano thru the boss synth, with Q tron added. Huge noise. But it worked: it's more effects than I've ever chained before. The act is mad for tech: I'm building a sampler rig I'll trigger with foot pedals, and I'm working out how the whole band will provide a stereo image, including myself and the guitarist.

All this said, if I'm at home, feeling lazy, and I want to work out against some Jamiroquai or whatever, I'll dial up the least effected patch on the Pandora and go with clean tones, even on tracks where there's autowah.

Do you think there's a correlation between your willingness to stretch your musical boundaries (I felt pretty uncomfortable turning all those effects on at once at first) and *not* reflexively reaching for the "who needs effects?" line?

After all, look what that guy out of Muse achieves: I've never heard so much low end and sheer SIZE in a bass tone. Huge.

[CPBass]

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1338346654' post='1673101']
The problem essentially comes down to peoples ideas of what a bass [i]should [/i]sound like or what the bassist is [i]supposed [/i]to be playing. Without wishing to offend anyone I think most of the players who question the value of effects are of the pub covers or generic rock ilk, who have a somewhat traditional view of bass as fulfilling a specified role.

But look at a bass. What is it? It's 4 wires streched across a plank of wood with a couple of magnets and some electronics. It's an instrument for making sound, who's to say that one way of playing it is more valid than any other. I use effects because there are sounds I want to make that my bass can't produce. If I can make them with a bass and some pedals, why shouldn't I? Why should I have to not use those sounds or switch to a different instrument? I just don't see the point of not doing something that I [i]can [/i]do because of some arbitrary "traditions".
[/quote]

Spot on. Throw away the rule books!!

[flyfisher]

Exactly. Isn't that the real joy of music? Surely it's the end result that matters, not the means.

Perhaps the problem is that 'effects' is a bit too emotive. Isn't a, say, violin, just an 'effects' box that generates some audible frequencies? It's what the player does with those frequencies that matters.

Photographers have the same sort of debates about photoshop, but they've been manipulating photos ever since photography was invented, with filters and various processing tricks. The analogy is that only the end result, the image, really matters - everything else is just a means to that end.

Rip up the rule book? What rule book?

[chris_b]

[quote name='lxxwj' timestamp='1338330702' post='1673029']
....This argument has caused me to constantly decide and redecide if I want
to be a [i]bass[/i] player or a [i]guitar [/i]player....
[/quote]

If you can't decide then your a guitarist.


[quote name='lxxwj' timestamp='1338330702' post='1673029']
....I mean, looking at the typical rock/pop/whatever
arrangement, being a guitar player is [i]much[/i] more interesting.. you get solos, riffs, fills, chords, whatever....
[/quote]

Ya think!

[binky_bass]

Just to chime in...

I play 9 & 10 string basses with a whole host of effects. I will literally challenge any guitarist out there to come up with bigger range of notes/tones or sounds that what my set up provides!

I love messing around with sounds and effects with a range from low F# to a high C, it's very freeing. I play a lot of solo type stuff where reverb, delay, an EQ and a chorus make the sound scape awesome.

If you say bass has less range than a guitar, or is less fulfilling as an instrument then please, come on over and sample a 6, 9 or 10 string bass, you'll find yourself corrected my good sirs!

At the end of the day, tis each to their own, for simplicity and standard pop etc, a 4 string fender will do... For some who wants range, tone and the ability to sculpt their sound into anything, then I say effects can turn your bass into anything you want with the freedom to tap, pluck, slap, strum, pick, mute, walk, pop and harmonise your way past any guitarist!

Ta, Russ.

[DiMarco]

"a real bass has four strings" is something I usually get when visiting the local jamsessions. The guitarist saying that then usually proceeds to play an hour lasting solo while demanding I stick to the root notes of his 12 bar blues scheme... The pale looks on their faces is usually nothing short of EPIC when you pull a 5 or 6 string non-lined fretless out of your gigbag. ;-)

Times have changed my dear guitardists and no a bass player is not someone who failed at playing guitar.

Our instrument (electric bass guitar) and its role in modern music as evolved SO much over the last 3 or 4 decades! I believe even more so then ANY other instrument. Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply trying to force his own limitations onto you. Stay away from such people as much as you can.

I LOVE using effects, they can be a great source of inspiration and bring a unique atmosphere to the music.
As with everything in music it is not wat you use but how you use it.

[thumperbob 2002]

I always used some effect or other in each band I have been in, whether it was a load of pedals - the usual filter, octaver, distortion, wah etc though just recently I went down the route of preamps with grit. Now I just go straight in with bass to amp to speaker. I am in a pretty retro soul band and have started to be convinced that my tone was changed more than the room than my effects, once a full band is involved. I felt that using effects in this group just added mud or felt " fake".

[jbn4001]

[quote name='Voodoosnake' timestamp='1344073377' post='1759354']
Spot on. Throw away the rule books!!
[/quote]

This. I'm not an effects guy myself these days (I seem to be getting more and more "old school", playing double bass in jazz groups these days!) - but I'm not averse to listening to tunes featuring effects-laden bass. Whatever floats [i]your [/i]boat, whatever fits the band, whatever fits the song. When I was younger (and perhaps still), I've been guilty of being too busy, too loud, or using effects that don't fit the song. It's all a learning curve and ultimately it is art - and art is entirely subjective. If you find a bunch of likeminded people who like what you do - go for it!

[BassPimp66]

I was very lucky to attend a clinic with TM Stevens at London Bass Day.
I had a chat with him about "his sound". I commented that for big slap guy I very was surprised not to see a compressor on his pedal board.
TM Stevens replied "I AM THE COMPRESSOR, my hand controls the attack". He also showed me his hand, with a big stare.
This left me thinking that my search for effects was possibly due to my inability to produce nice sounds with my hands.
I've recently sold most of my effects on this forum. Today, I only allow myself two pedals (1) a compressor for slap (please don't tell TM Stevens!) and (2) an autowah. I spend a lot of my time experimenting with my right hand technique to find different sounds. I find this hugely rewarding, the same sort of fun I got from tweaking pedal knobs. We all play bass to make sounds. The sounds we have in our heads can be the result of x and y effects, hand technique, or both. I am following a more organic approach these days, using my hands and I love it. And, yes, I will buy some pedals in the future... but not now.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1350504977' post='1839894']
I was very lucky to attend a clinic with TM Stevens at London Bass Day.
I had a chat with him about "his sound". I commented that for big slap guy I very was surprised not to see a compressor on his pedal board.
TM Stevens replied "I AM THE COMPRESSOR, my hand controls the attack". He also showed me his hand, with a big stare.
This left me thinking that my search for effects was possibly due to my inability to produce nice sounds with my hands.
I've recently sold most of my effects on this forum. Today, I only allow myself two pedals (1) a compressor for slap (please don't tell TM Stevens!) and (2) an autowah. I spend a lot of my time experimenting with my right hand technique to find different sounds. I find this hugely rewarding, the same sort of fun I got from tweaking pedal knobs. We all play bass to make sounds. The sounds we have in our heads can be the result of x and y effects, hand technique, or both. I am following a more organic approach these days, using my hands and I love it. And, yes, I will buy some pedals in the future... but not now.
[/quote]

Each side of the argument has it's own points which seem very valid but one person saying to another person what [i]they[/i] do is just that. What someone does is what they do because they like it for themselves.

I can control my attack to a degree with my hands so that the peaks and troffs of lines aren't so drastic and so fourth, but the compressor allows me another thing I don't have to worry about. It's fair to say the compressor on my board is the most important part as it's never off and it's used to just bring alive everything in line with loud low end.

I can do it without, I just don't want to and overall the feeling and sound is generally better, although the average punter doesn't realise, I just tell them jokingly that the more lights you have the better you sound.

At the same time I don't have anything unnecessary on my board, and I just need to do some tests with the new rig and my PA sub to see if I really need the thumpinator, but it has a cool blue light

[pantherairsoft]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1350504977' post='1839894']
I was very lucky to attend a clinic with TM Stevens at London Bass Day.
I had a chat with him about "his sound". I commented that for big slap guy I very was surprised not to see a compressor on his pedal board.
TM Stevens replied "I AM THE COMPRESSOR, my hand controls the attack". He also showed me his hand, with a big stare.
This left me thinking that my search for effects was possibly due to my inability to produce nice sounds with my hands.
I've recently sold most of my effects on this forum. Today, I only allow myself two pedals (1) a compressor for slap (please don't tell TM Stevens!) and (2) an autowah. I spend a lot of my time experimenting with my right hand technique to find different sounds. I find this hugely rewarding, the same sort of fun I got from tweaking pedal knobs. We all play bass to make sounds. The sounds we have in our heads can be the result of x and y effects, hand technique, or both. I am following a more organic approach these days, using my hands and I love it. And, yes, I will buy some pedals in the future... but not now.
[/quote]

This is a very valid view of the discussion and I agree completely that technique can do wonders for aspects of your sounds.... However, if you or TM Stevens find a way to make your fingers sound like a Bit Crusher please make sure you let me know!!

[51m0n]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1350504977' post='1839894']
I was very lucky to attend a clinic with TM Stevens at London Bass Day.
I had a chat with him about "his sound". I commented that for big slap guy I very was surprised not to see a compressor on his pedal board.
TM Stevens replied "I AM THE COMPRESSOR, my hand controls the attack". He also showed me his hand, with a big stare.
This left me thinking that my search for effects was possibly due to my inability to produce nice sounds with my hands.
I've recently sold most of my effects on this forum. Today, I only allow myself two pedals (1) a compressor for slap (please don't tell TM Stevens!) and (2) an autowah. I spend a lot of my time experimenting with my right hand technique to find different sounds. I find this hugely rewarding, the same sort of fun I got from tweaking pedal knobs. We all play bass to make sounds. The sounds we have in our heads can be the result of x and y effects, hand technique, or both. I am following a more organic approach these days, using my hands and I love it. And, yes, I will buy some pedals in the future... but not now.
[/quote]

Heh heh, T.M Stevens? This T.M Stevens on here, with the very tastefully compressed bass sound.....
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKukOSBybyw[/media]

"I am the compressor" yeah, right, not according to Chris Lord-Alge then

Edited November 28, 2012 by 51m0n

[BigRedX]

IMO anything that does more than just take the acoustic sound of instrument and just make it louder is an effect. End of story.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354372968' post='1885304']
IMO anything that does more than just take the acoustic sound of instrument and just make it louder is an effect. End of story.
[/quote]

Agreed. But does that include the amp's EQ?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1354378682' post='1885382']
Agreed. But does that include the amp's EQ?
[/quote]

Yes absolutely.

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354372968' post='1885304']
IMO anything that does more than just take the acoustic sound of instrument and just make it louder is an effect. End of story.
[/quote]
I would argue that even increasing the volume is an effect, ie OD/distortion. Even AD/DA conversion can be used as an effect (Bittcrushing/sample rate reduction).

[BigRedX]

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1354389029' post='1885523']
I would argue that even increasing the volume is an effect, ie OD/distortion. Even AD/DA conversion can be used as an effect (Bittcrushing/sample rate reduction).
[/quote]

OD/Distortion is doing more than just making the signal louder as it changing the shape of the waveform so it's most definitely an effect.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1354378682' post='1885382']
Agreed. But does that include the amp's EQ?
[/quote]

It does essential effect the sound, even the pre-amp and power amp effect the signal in some way.
There are plenty of EQ pedals out there, that are very diffinate effects, so it would be wrong to say an amps EQ isn't .

Although I would say having amp is essential regardless(unless you are definitely just doing acoustic wityh an acoustic or upright bass) so you can really argue that point.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Prime_BASS

[BigRedX]

But you could have an amp with a trim pot to match the input gain to your instrument and then just a volume control to make it louder. There's no reason to have tone controls unless it's to modify the sound of your bass.

[xgsjx]

What about pickups? If you change your pickups your bass is gonna sound different.

[phil.i.stein]

everything that converts your body's movement into a musical signal is an 'effect' aswell as an instrument.

and effects are musical instruments in themselves.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1354552641' post='1887266']
It does essential effect the sound, even the pre-amp and power amp effect the signal in some way.
There are plenty of EQ pedals out there, that are very diffinate effects, so it would be wrong to say an amps EQ isn't .

Although I would say having amp is essential regardless(unless you are definitely just doing acoustic wityh an acoustic or upright bass) so you can really argue that point.
[/quote]

Not a big fan of the DI then????

[cheddatom]

I suppose you could call a playing technique an effect - palm muting for example, drastically changes the sound of the bass. If I use a pedal to get my palm muted sound, but you use your palm, we're both getting the same effect, so maybe you do use effects even though you've got no boxes on the floor?

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354553064' post='1887274']
But you could have an amp with a trim pot to match the input gain to your instrument and then just a volume control to make it louder. There's no reason to have tone controls unless it's to modify the sound of your bass.
[/quote]

I rarely even use EQ of any sort. I have the tone controls on my active bass set flat, and never move the tone controls on the amp more than one or two notches either side of 12'oclock. I dont even ever change the pickup selector or mix - always a 50/50 mix of both pickups. That approach has worked for me in all the bands I've played in: soul, blues, rock.