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Need help understanding power ratings...


bassickman
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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338396608' post='1673944']
....I've been to bass Direct all day today and I have only warmed to this gear. However, obviously I didn't try every bass in there....
[/quote]

Did you see the used Genz Benz Neox 212T at BD? It looks pretty good for under £600. You'd get a great sound if you combined that with a Shuttle 9.2 or Streamliner 900.

Did you play any Bergantino cabs? The HD212 would be a killer sound combined with a GB Shuttle 9.2 or one of the Markbass amps.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1338399126' post='1673999']
There are some great 34" scale 5 string basses and some crap 35" scale 5 string basses IME and visa versa obviously :)

What's all the electronics talk about? The op wanted advice on basses and amps not the Maplins catalog!
[/quote]

Just saying that all things being equal if you're buying a 5 string bass and you are going to spend a lot of time between B and E (which you would playing Gospel) then, all things being equal, you'd be better off with a 35. 35" scale lengths were designed so that the low B would be at a decent tension and ring true so it makes sense.

You are absolutely right that there are some 35" dogs and some some incredible 34" but all things being equal, personally if it's got more than 4 strings it needs to be a 35".

BUT (obligatory disclaimer) it's ultimately down to peoples taste. I've got big hands so maybe that's why I prefer 35 partly!? Who knows

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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338398956' post='1673992']
Wow Bill - so if you have a trace that's completely flat at a voltage other than 0, its not a direct voltage? Maybe physics doesnt apply in your universe.
[/quote]

The part where you say 'waveform' and try and claim it is DC is where you are wrong. You can have one or the other.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1338399126' post='1673999']
What's all the electronics talk about?
[/quote]

From the thread title: [size=3]"[/size][size=3]Need help understanding power ratings..."[/size]

Edited by Mr. Foxen
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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338398956' post='1673992']
Wow Bill - so if you have a trace that's completely flat at a voltage other than 0, its not a direct voltage?[/quote]
If you're talking about a wave that's absolutely correct. The definition of DC is completely opposed to that of an AC waveform, no matter what it looks like.
[quote] Maybe physics doesnt apply in your universe.
[/quote]

Had you looked for that authoratative link to DC voltages you might have found the physics that does apply. It doesn't look like what you're suggesting.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1338399126' post='1673999']
What's all the electronics talk about? The op wanted advice on basses and amps not the Maplins catalog!
[/quote]

Good question. I posted what I felt was reasionable advice, but a couple of "experts" decided to rip into what I said. I responded. Things got silly.

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[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1338401334' post='1674055']
If you're talking about a wave that's absolutely correct. The definition of DC is completely opposed to that of an AC waveform, no matter what it looks like.


Had you looked for that authoratative link to DC voltages you might have found the physics that does apply. It doesn't look like what you're suggesting.
[/quote]

Both of your statements are wrong on many counts (sorry to go back to the theory, but I have to challenge this).

DC is not "opposed" to AC in any way. If you want to "oppose" an AC, you need to take the original waveform and invert it.

On your second point, read this carefully. Look at the trace to which I put the link earlier in this thread - the picture of the scope at the right-hand side of the article. Now take two fingers and cover up the bits at the left and right where the voltage value is rising then falling. Look only at the bit in the middle that's horizontal. Now, in this portion the physics applies, and DC looks exactly like that. OK? That was my point. For a portion of a clipped waveform, the trace is DC. I was not trying to say it's all DC. Just that bit. What happens in the rest of the trace is outside what I was talking about.

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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338402599' post='1674085']
Good question. I posted what I felt was reasionable advice, but a couple of "experts" decided to rip into what I said. I responded. Things got silly.
[/quote]Well, if you're going to give expert advise the first requirement is that you be an expert. My credentials as such are a matter of public record.
I also have a personal rule that I'm here to teach those wishing to learn, not argue with those who don't. As you clearly have no desire to learn, only a penchant to argue that which you don't comprehend, with you I am done.

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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338396608' post='1673944']
The £5k budget is for amp and bass. I'm thinking maybe Fender jazz deluxe 5 with mark bass little mark tube 500 and a mark bass 4 x 10. Or maybe a genz benz shuttle and a vanderkley 4 x 10 or......... a genz benz with a bergantino 4 x10.

Thoughts?

I've been to bass Direct all day today and I have only warmed to this gear. However, obviously I didn't try every bass in there.

Maybe a bass modelled on a j-bass with better components would be an option.
[/quote]

Ok..good work. You now have decent reference to stuff you liked the sound of.

Forget this talk of 34-35 inch scale, IMO, for 5 strings. The defining thing about a 5st bass is indeed the B string.
It is either good or it isn't and for that..you need to hear it. There are not many..IME... 5 strings basses, I would buy blind in view of the B working being great.

If the bass sounds good, then it is good, for you. But a poor B string can only be cleaned up a little by new strings and you certrainly don't want to assume that that can be done.

IMO, Fenders are as prone to poor QC to some degree as anything else... a flick through a few past posts can bear that out.
Again..you can circumvent this by playing the bass and reviewing it 1st hand.

A good Fender is a good Fender, tho...... nothing wrong in that if it ticks ALL your boxes.

If you like the sound of the MarkB stuff you tried, it is decent kit. Ditto GB.

Vanderlacky and Berg cabs are quality so if you like their sound, you would have an enviable rig using anything in your last post.
If you see Aguilar amps and cabs on your travels, then check them out as well.

Super jazzes ..ie, a spin on the fabled Jazz design is a good option. Overwater and Sadowsky do well there.
Maybe check out the Xotic, Sandberg, Lull. They tend to come with hot pre amps so a bit more control and oomph to the sound, IMO.

Good fun..we can all spend that money for you :lol: :lol: on our wish-lists.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1338403063' post='1674106']
Well, if you're going to give expert advise the first requirement is that you be an expert. My credentials as such are a matter of public record.
I also have a personal rule that I'm here to teach those wishing to learn, not argue with those who don't. As you clearly have no desire to learn, only a penchant to argue that which you don't comprehend, with you I am done.
[/quote]

My credentials are almost acceptable too, Bill. HNC Electronics & Computer Engineering, BA(Hons) first class Electronics & Computer Engineering. Go ahead - teach me.

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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338396608' post='1673944']
The £5k budget is for amp and bass. I'm thinking maybe Fender jazz deluxe 5 with mark bass little mark tube 500 and a mark bass 4 x 10. Or maybe a genz benz shuttle and a vanderkley 4 x 10 or......... a genz benz with a bergantino 4 x10.

Thoughts?

I've been to bass Direct all day today and I have only warmed to this gear. However, obviously I didn't try every bass in there.

Maybe a bass modelled on a j-bass with better components would be an option.
[/quote]

If you're only warming to things, then don't rush into it. Find your ideal bass first of all & then take that around to find your rig.

Get yourself a shot of a Dingwall whenever you can. I tried one quite some time ago & loved it but the Mrs wouldn't let me bring it back from the states (it was before you could get them here). Fanned fretboard takes about 20 mins to get used to & then it kinda feels just natural. :)

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Anyway, I withdraw my original comments. I bow to Dr Foxens superior knowledge. There is no need to ensure your speakers can handle the power from your amplifier.

I bow to BF's superior knowledge. A section of a voltage trace that remains for a period of time at the same voltage is not DC.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1338399126' post='1673999']
What's all the electronics talk about? The op wanted advice on basses and amps not the Maplins catalog!
[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I actually snotted!

For that, you're immortalised!

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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338403002' post='1674103']
Both of your statements are wrong on many counts (sorry to go back to the theory, but I have to challenge this).

DC is not "opposed" to AC in any way. If you want to "oppose" an AC, you need to take the original waveform and invert it. [/quote]

You'll note I said "The [b]definition[/b] of DC is completely opposed to that of an AC waveform". Please notice the bold bit - picking and choosing which bits to look at often leads to confusion.

[quote]
On your second point, read this carefully. Look at the trace to which I put the link earlier in this thread - the picture of the scope at the right-hand side of the article. Now take two fingers and cover up the bits at the left and right where the voltage value is rising then falling. Look only at the bit in the middle that's horizontal. Now, in this portion the physics applies, and DC looks exactly like that. OK? That was my point. For a portion of a clipped waveform, the trace is DC. I was not trying to say it's all DC. Just that bit. What happens in the rest of the trace is outside what I was talking about.[/quote]

Once again - picking and choosing which bits to look at often leads to confusion. If it's a wave, it's not DC.

An authoratative link for you - http://www.excelsior-audio.com/Publications/Square_Waves_&_DC_Content.pdf

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[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1338404009' post='1674126']
You'll note I said "The [b]definition[/b] of DC is completely opposed to that of an AC waveform". Please notice the bold bit - picking and choosing which bits to look at often leads to confusion.



Once again - picking and choosing which bits to look at often leads to confusion. If it's a wave, it's not DC.

An authoratative link for you - [url="http://www.excelsior-audio.com/Publications/Square_Waves_&_DC_Content.pdf"]http://www.excelsior..._DC_Content.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

Hmm. Note that we can't see the x-axis scale. That horizontal portion could be 10ns or 10 minutes. Are you saying that if it's 10 minutes, we are not seeing DC? At which point does it stop being a blip on a waveform and start being DC? Just asking - because if you connect a scope to a battery via an open switch, close the switch for a while then open it again you see a square wave (try it). Does this mean the battery does not produce a direct voltage? Or would you have to be selective about which bit of the waveform you look at?

BTW, I did acknowledge that I had misread your statement.

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Now that I do need to get involved in. I've just started learning about gardening this past couple of weeks.

Mother nature's had it for the past 4 1/2 years & I'm slooooowwwwly taking it back. It was like the Amazon, now it's just a jungle. There's rhubarb in there, there's some weird exotic plants (probably weeds) & there's loads of my old favourite.... Brambles!

I bought a strimmer & a lawnmower & now have something that resembles a patch of grass & I'm working on what could once maybe have been a vegetable garden!!!

The neighbour has one of these "Bushcutter" things. It's like a petrol strimmer with a thick 3 pronged blade. He went into my jungle & broke it within 5 minutes! Oil peeing everywhere! :blink:
I've been slowly working on a corner with large shears & heavy duty loppers (that can cut a 2" branch) & slowly working my way in. I can almost get to the 2nd shed! :D

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[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1338404584' post='1674139']
Now that I do need to get involved in. I've just started learning about gardening this past couple of weeks.

Mother nature's had it for the past 4 1/2 years & I'm slooooowwwwly taking it back. It was like the Amazon, now it's just a jungle. There's rhubarb in there, there's some weird exotic plants (probably weeds) & there's loads of my old favourite.... Brambles!

I bought a strimmer & a lawnmower & now have something that resembles a patch of grass & I'm working on what could once maybe have been a vegetable garden!!!

The neighbour has one of these "Bushcutter" things. It's like a petrol strimmer with a thick 3 pronged blade. He went into my jungle & broke it within 5 minutes! Oil peeing everywhere! :blink:
I've been slowly working on a corner with large shears & heavy duty loppers (that can cut a 2" branch) & slowly working my way in. I can almost get to the 2nd shed! :D
[/quote]

Any chance you can bring that lot round to my place and sort out my garden? It's gone a bit wild since I started posting on this thread :D

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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338404797' post='1674141']
Any chance you can bring that lot round to my place and sort out my garden? It's gone a bit wild since I started posting on this thread :D
[/quote]

It's a slooow job & takes time & dedication.


A bit like gardening.

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[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1338404576' post='1674138']
Does this mean the battery does not produce a direct voltage?
[/quote]

The polarity and the direction of current flow don't alternate so it's not AC - just pulsating DC.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1338404040' post='1674129']
:lol: these guys can wangle an electronics debate into any thread, I'm worried about my long standing gardeners thread!
[/quote]

...especially since Thompson & Morgan started doing 50W daffodil bulbs... :unsure:

:P

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