cacking my pants!

[Twigman]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1338568574' post='1676599']
Why do you expect a seller to jump through a million hoops all so some chancer of a buyer can get a bargain at his expense?
[/quote]
Who said anything about it being at the seller's expense?
NEGOTIATE

the buyer has not paid for packaging

Charge your time at £50 an hour if you want ....but get the buyer to compensate for anything the buyer has not yet paid for......


that way you might get closer to what you expected to get for it in the first place




it's not rocket science.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Twigman

[Twigman]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1338568749' post='1676606']
[url="https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Sending-and-receiving-money/collection-in-person-but-buyer-has-paid-Paypal-I-am-worried-I/m-p/254082/highlight/true#M2691"]https://www.paypal-c...ight/true#M2691[/url]
[/quote]

It's easy enough to get the tracking number from the UPS driver when he collects...it'll be on his barcode reader thingy...
then you can track it exactly as the buyer can.
That is POD.

[Mr. Foxen]

When a carrier colelcts, they leave a receipt copy of the note, with the delivery address on it, if it doesn't match, then don't hand it over. I've been through the process of having a collect only item collected by my courier many times. A friend did so and it got damaged due to poor packing. Ebay sided with the seller, even though they were a bit of a crazy.

Edit: I've had a guy courier a hardcase boxed to me, so I could pack the guitar into it, and then he sent another courier to collect that the next day, that was neat.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[Twigman]

With UPS if you get the tracking number [no hassle at all] then the address actually delivered to can be proven.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338568890' post='1676609']
When a carrier colelcts, they leave a receipt copy of the note, with the delivery address on it, if it doesn't match, then don't hand it over. I've been through the process of having a collect only item collected by my courier many times. A friend did so and it got damaged due to poor packing. Ebay sided with the seller, even though they were a bit of a crazy.
[/quote]

Yes, but if the address the item is being sent to the buyers registered Ebay address do not match then the seller will not be covered.

When selling via Paypal/Ebay the seller has to be able to prove that the item got to the buyers registered address in one piece. If someone else is arranging the courier then the seller no longer has control of where it goes.

For items that get damaged, you're going to have to deal with the lottery of a decision being made by Paypal-Ebay-the courier as to whose fault it was.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1338569217' post='1676614']
And if they contact the courier and change delivery address.
[/quote]

That's not different from them picking it up, and driving to a different address.

If you have a collection note with the appropriate details, thats it, take a copy, send to ebay.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1338569310' post='1676616']
With UPS if you get the tracking number [no hassle at all] then the address actually delivered to can be proven.
[/quote]

To be covered by Paypal you have to post to the buyers registered address. proof of delivery to any other address isn't good enough. It's stupid, but that's the way it is.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1338569632' post='1676628']
To be covered by Paypal you have to post to the buyers registered address. proof of delivery to any other address isn't good enough. It's stupid, but that's the way it is.
[/quote]

This isn't the seller posting.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338569535' post='1676624']
That's not different from them picking it up, and driving to a different address.

If you have a collection note with the appropriate details, thats it, take a copy, send to ebay.
[/quote]

You're confusing "what ebay should do" with "what ebay will do" I'm afraid.

If a buyer raises an "item not received" claim then you need to be able to prove that the item was delivered to their registered delivery address. You can have all the collection notes you want, but if you don't have POD to the registered paypal address then they won't cover you. Paypal are pretty explicit about this.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1338570018' post='1676637']
You're confusing "what ebay should do" with "what ebay will do" I'm afraid.

If a buyer raises an "item not received" claim then you need to be able to prove that the item was delivered to their registered delivery address. You can have all the collection notes you want, but if you don't have POD to the registered paypal address then they won't cover you. Paypal are pretty explicit about this.
[/quote]

I've done it though. Post links to paypal saying otherwise. Otherwise I'm going to be sticking with what actually happened in the scenarios like this one that I have actually experienced. When an item is collected from you by the buyer, or an agent thereof, anything else from that point is nothing to do with you, why would it be? All this proof of delivery stuff is entirely to do with a seller agreeing to arrange shipping themselves.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338569775' post='1676632']
This isn't the seller posting.
[/quote]

Paypal won't give a crap about that. Thats the point. If the buyer pays by paypal the seller has to be able to prove that the item was delivered to the buyer's registered address. Saying "but their courier came to collect it" is not proof. Its stupid. But thats the way paypal work. And its one reason why people hate them.

Using your own logic---You say that giving an item to a courier is no different to giving it directly to the seller. Fair enough. But as per Johnston's posts---Paypal themselves say that if you participate in a "collection" sale then you should only accept cash because their seller protection will not cover you.

If you accept paypal as a payment method then the only surefire way to protect yourself is to courier the item yourself. Its stupid, but thats the way it is.

Yes, you might have done it, and yes, it might have worked out---but if you get a dishonest buyer you open yourself to a world of hurt.

[discreet]

If I'd listed an eBay item as 'cash on collection only' and the winning bidder sent me a message stating they would pay by PayPal and send a courier, I'd blow them out totally and list the item again, stressing the fact that it is CASH ON COLLECTION [u]ONLY[/u]. The buyer is taking the piss big time by not respecting the terms of the listing, and I would be sure to let them know all about it.

Edited June 1, 2012 by discreet

[Mr. Foxen]

All the proof of delivery stuff only applies if the payment was made for an item the seller needs to deliver. Paypal never say accept cash, the internal logic there shows you its wrong, especially knowing ebay force paypal as an option. And when an item is collected, you get a receipt for it, that's your proof of delivery, into the hands of the buyers agent. If a buyer is going to lie, everything makes no difference, because that is the nature of lies. You respond in ebay with your proof of delivery, which you won't have if they collected it in person, so a courier is better anyway, since they give you a receipt.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1338570897' post='1676657']
If I'd listed an eBay item as 'cash on collection only' and the winning bidder sent me a message stating they would pay by PayPal and send a courier, I'd blow them out totally and list the item again, stressing the fact that it is [b]CASH ON COLLECTION [u]ONLY[/u][/b].
[/quote]

That would breach ebay rules and thus you get no protection and lose your fees.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote]. Post links to paypal saying otherwise.
[/quote]

Read Johnston's posts!

Or

https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=MFyyPL1YpLcThfjc9cV30KPspN1Jg7lm713nRcqJPt5sQbYKfXY2!460627812?locale=en_GB&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=GB&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9010&t=solutionTab&ft=searchTab&ps=solutionPanels&solutionId=163593&isSrch=Yes

What do I need to ensure I'm covered by seller protection?[list]
[*][b]Post to the address provided in the "Details" link in your account history[/b]
[*][b]Retain proof of delivery that can be tracked online[/b], such as Royal Mail’s Recorded Delivery. [b]If your buyer picks the item up in person or you cannot provide proof of delivery that can be tracked online, your transaction will not qualify.[/b] This includes items posted with first class postage
[*]For items with a value of £150 or more, you need to provide proof of signature from the recipient
[/list]
If the buyer arranges their own courier you can't guarantee that it will go to the "correct" address, nor can you guarantee that it is a trackable shipment.

I'm glad you've done this in the past and it worked out for you, but that doesn't mean that someone wasn't taking a risk somewhere.

[discreet]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338570980' post='1676660']
That would breach ebay rules and thus you get no protection and lose your fees.
[/quote]

You're missing the point. The buyer is in breach for not respecting the terms of the listing in the first place.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338570943' post='1676659']
And when an item is collected, you get a receipt for it, that's your proof of delivery, into the hands of the buyers agent.
[/quote]

If that were the case then unscrupulous sellers could rip off buyers even more easily.

Buyer pays by paypal
Seller pockets cash
Buyer arranges to pickup item
Seller doesn't turn up at designated meeting point
Buyer contacts paypal saying "I never got my item"
Seller provides "receipt" saying item handed over or posted to some random address (which they claim buyer asked them to do in a phone call)

What then?

Edited June 1, 2012 by uncle psychosis

[stefBclef]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1338566799' post='1676549']

What's the difference between the buyer collecting and UPS collecting?
NOTHING

[/quote]

Packaging. A boatload of packaging.

[discreet]

[quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1338571574' post='1676679']
Packaging. A boatload of packaging.
[/quote]

And time. Time that you didn't want to spend packing.
And more time wasted waiting about for the bloody courier to turn up.

And yet more time wondering why you didn't give the winning moron the bum's rush.

Edited June 1, 2012 by discreet

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1338571488' post='1676678']
If that were the case then unscrupulous sellers could rip off buyers even more easily.

Buyer pays by paypal
Seller pockets cash
Buyer arranges to pickup item
Seller doesn't turn up at designated meeting point
Buyer contacts paypal saying "I never got my item"
Seller provides "receipt" saying item handed over or posted to some random address (which they claim buyer asked them to do in a phone call)

What then?
[/quote]

The seller still has the item and is a scammer apparently, gets a bad feedback, and possibly further action from ebay. I've had a guy not be in when I arrived to collect, he delivered next day and paid for time.

[stefBclef]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1338567634' post='1676572']
He doesn't though.
Let UPS collect as is...it's not the seller's responsibility once UPS has collected.
[/quote]

Couriers don't collect stuff that is not properly packaged. They just won't. Then who would have to pay for another courrier? Althogether bad idea to leave it unpackaged.

I don't think the buyer can leave any bad or neutral feedback - the buyer is the one who agreed to the terms and is now not complying to them. Might take this conversation down to the pub actually...

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338571882' post='1676689']
I've had a guy not be in when I arrived to collect, he delivered next day and paid for time.
[/quote]

Good stuff.

I've paid for stuff by PayPal gift and it turned up fine. Doesn't mean I wasn't leaving myself open to being ripped off.

In an ideal world everyone would be honest and it would be great. But sadly its not an ideal world and there are many people out there who have fallen foul of paypal / ebay rules and dishonest buyers. It just doesn't seem worth it for £50 (less fees, etc).

[discreet]

[quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1338572011' post='1676693']
Might take this conversation down to the pub actually...
[/quote]

First sensible suggestion in this thread so far. Me too... but I'm leaving the conversation right here!

[Musky]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338567795' post='1676576']
Refusal to co-operate with an entirely reasonable request to act through the buyer's agent is cheerfully grounds for a neutral feedback.
[/quote]
Does ebay actually state that 'collection in person' means any agent the buyer chooses to use?

'Collection in person' is a widely used phrase that is usually understood to mean that the person you're in contact with will collect themselves, personally. If you were to say you'll deliver in person, most people wouldn't expect to find a postman knocking on their door just because he's your agent.

It doesn't really matter to most people whether the actual buyer turns up, his mum or anybody else. What matters is that you can have direct contact with the buyer, arrange a convenient time and place, place it in the hands of someone trusted by the buyer and conclude the deal.

Which is exactly why a courier isn't the same at all

[Mr. Foxen]

The buyer trusts the courier, its them that is contracting with them. That makes it exactly the same situation as if they sent any other third party, except with the additional guarantee of a recognised name of the courier, and the requirement for them to leave paperwork. Its all about co-operation to get your item sold. If you make yourself difficult to deal with deliberately, that is the whole point of the feedback system.