9 string bass

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1338916756' post='1681083']
Er ... that's not exactly saying all pianos are bass pianos. There's a historical context here, where some instruments are made in families and some are not.

But again: the wider the range, the less all of these names make sense, as you said and I confirmed.
[/quote]
OK, maybe I misunderstood you.

[chrismuzz]

Looks like a bass, sounds like a bass, plays like a bass, played through a bass rig. That's good enough for me

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1338911503' post='1680947']
But trombones come in various ranges: e.g. tenor, alto, bass.

Being a [b][i][u]bass[/u][/i][/b] guitar is about the range of the instrument not the construction, it's the construction that makes it a guitar.

Similarly, for trombones (or any other instrument) it's the construction that makes it a trombone (or whatever), it's the range that makes it bass or alto (or whatever).

The wider the range of the instrument the less possible or sensible it is to call it 'bass' or 'alto' or whatever.
[/quote]

Yes, you get Tenor, Bass and Alto trombones for example, but a Bass trombone has the exact range of a tenor and alto but greater (if the player has the ability).

Though I totally get what you mean when you ay the wider the range and I do somewhat agree, but I think an instrument, as part of a family should get it's name from it's commonly written area of pitch. As that's more or less how it's been done in classical areas, and I guess that's probably just because I'm used to it!

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1338930833' post='1681398']
Looks like a bass, sounds like a bass, plays like a bass, played through a bass rig. That's good enough for me
[/quote]

+1 haha!

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1338930833' post='1681398']
Looks like a bass, sounds like a bass, plays like a bass, played through a bass rig. That's good enough for me
[/quote]
Doesn't look like a bass, doesn't sound like a bass, no idea whether it plays like a bass or not but if it's got that many strings I suspect it plays more like a harp, and I've played keyboard and guitar and DJed through a bass rig. That's not good enough for me.

But then I don't even like five strings.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Dread Bass' timestamp='1338892144' post='1680529']
I think the difficulty with ERBs is that if you dont play anything fancy people say you dont need an ERB but if you do play anything fancy you get told you are a show off, between a rock and a hard place. I only use a 7, I have no use for a 9. I do not play solos or anything i use it in a band. Its tuned EBEADGC I have another one which is tuned to BEADGCF which i also enjoy messing with.
[/quote]

+1. You can't win really. I am probably just repeating myself now but I just can't stand it when people get all uppity about instruments that do not conform to the "norm". I think all these classification of instruments as "bass", "tenor", "alto" etc is all just outdated anyway. IMV of course.

[D.I. Joe]

You're right. Those classifications are more relevant to brass and wind instruments anyway I think. Though it does work in a string context with more traditional instruments like violins where the range is relatively limited. Though actually, perhaps guitars could adopt a similar system - we have bass and baritone guitars, guitars could be known as alto or whatever is appropriate, and these full range instruments simply known as guitars. Controversial?

[Sibob]

Define 'Full Range'

Si

[D.I. Joe]

After you sir

Wrong wording maybe, but you get the point right?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1338978545' post='1681810']
Define 'Full Range'

Si
[/quote]

At least that of an upright piano.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1338979567' post='1681832']
At least that of an upright piano.
[/quote]
That sounds about right.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1338977338' post='1681792']
perhaps guitars could adopt a similar system - we have bass and baritone guitars, guitars could be known as alto or whatever is appropriate, and these full range instruments simply known as guitars. Controversial?
[/quote]

I like that idea. Who knows, maybe you've just made history.
Right now, the "normal" range guitar is called "guitar", whilst historically being a tenor guitar. Alto guitars do exist as well. Don't remember if soprano guitars exist, but I expect so.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1338982293' post='1681880']
I like that idea. Who knows, maybe you've just made history.
Right now, the "normal" range guitar is called "guitar", whilst historically being a tenor guitar. Alto guitars do exist as well. Don't remember if soprano guitars exist, but I expect so.
[/quote]
This is a tenor guitar:
Although I'd agree that the 'normal' six-string might be called a tenor

Edited June 6, 2012 by EssentialTension

[flyfisher]

Why waste time with nine strings? Might as well go the whole hog . . . .

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1338983687' post='1681907']
Why waste time with nine strings? Might as well go the whole hog . . . .


[/quote]
Ah, possible a full range instrument.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1338983296' post='1681895']
This is a tenor guitar:

Although I'd agree that the 'normal' six-string might be called a tenor
[/quote]

I'm not saying it might or should be called a tenor. I'm just saying this AFAIK historically is a tenor guitar, and AFAIK, now it is inbetween the modern tenor and the modern alto.

I really have no view or opinions on this matter. I don't care. Just wished for clarity in the exchange, plus for a historical approach as background info for others to use in forming their opinions.

[4 Strings]

The bass guitar was a term coined to reflect that it was intended to replace the bass viol (or double bass) but was constructed and played like an electric guitar and so 'bass guitar' was apt.

This from Wiki (so MUST be right!):[i] The names [b]contrabass[/b] and [b]double bass[/b] refer the instrument's range and use in the contra octave below the cello, also called the 16' octave relative to the church organ. The terms for the instrument among classical performers are [b]contrabass[/b] (which comes from the instrument's Italian name, contrabbasso)[/i]

So, I suppose the 9 stringers et al would comply with this as their range extends at least as low as a bass guitar. They are constructed in the fashion of an electric guitar and have their root in bass guitars by the way they are played and their range seems to extend from that expected of a bass guitar rather than a 'normal' guitar. So, boringly, 'extended range bass guitar' would seem to be the most apt.

I suppose we all have our views on them, for me they seem to be popular in the US where bigger is better and they have the money to spend on beautifully crafted, over-specified instruments with ever more features and, in this case, ever more strings (17 and 18 strings are now de rigueur, no doubt the first 20 string 'erbg' has been made).

What you do with all those strings appears yet to be decided.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1338998285' post='1682188']
I suppose we all have our views on them, for me they seem to be popular in the US where bigger is better and they have the money to spend on beautifully crafted, over-specified instruments with ever more features and, in this case, ever more strings (17 and 18 strings are now de rigueur, no doubt the first 20 string 'erbg' has been made).
[/quote]

Mate, I remember a few years ago a bloke in the states was going to build a 24 string bass (no double courses or anything, 24 single strings) but had to scrap it because he got a $1000 fine for drunk driving lol.

Edited June 6, 2012 by EdwardHimself

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1338999174' post='1682206']


Mate, I remember a few years ago a bloke in the states was going to build a 24 string bass (no double courses or anything, 24 single strings) but had to scrap it because he got a $1000 fine for drunk driving lol.
[/quote]

Presumably the same night he had this brainwave

[Russ]

I hate these sorts of discussions. For me, it's pretty cut and dried. A 9-string bass is a bass because, a) it shares a very similar scale length and form factor with the regular bass guitar, b ) it's played with the same techniques, c) they feature similarly voiced electronics, and d) they're primarily played by bass players who have graduated from the 4-string instrument and are hence played with the sensibilities of a bass player.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Russ

[Chris Horton]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1338911392' post='1680944']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZdiJGWdfI[/media]
[/quote]


That must weigh a bit.
My back hurts just looking at it

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Russ' timestamp='1339004945' post='1682337']
... hence played with the sensibilities of a bass player.
[/quote]
Really?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Chris Horton' timestamp='1339005876' post='1682362']
That must weigh a bit.
My back hurts just looking at it
[/quote]
That'll be why he's resting it on a chair.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Russ' timestamp='1339004945' post='1682337'] I hate these sorts of discussions. For me, it's pretty cut and dried. A 9-string bass is a bass because, a) it shares a very similar scale length and form factor with the regular bass guitar, b ) it's played with the same techniques, c) they feature similarly voiced electronics, and d) they're primarily played by bass players who have graduated from the 4-string instrument and are hence played with the sensibilities of a bass player. [/quote]

Not as cut and dried for the rest of us, hence the discussion. I've found it interesting.

Not sure 'graduating' is the right word. I'm yet to challenge the likes of Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Geddy, Wooten, Miller, Jamerson so I suppose if they haven't graduated from 4-string instrument then I never shall.

Funnily enough, for me, the discussion is more interesting than the music I've heard performed on these amazing instruments.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Russ' timestamp='1339004945' post='1682337']
I hate these sorts of discussions. For me, it's pretty cut and dried. A 9-string bass is a bass because, a) it shares a very similar scale length and form factor with the regular bass guitar, b ) it's played with the same techniques, c) they feature similarly voiced electronics, and d) they're primarily played by bass players who have graduated from the 4-string instrument and are hence played with the sensibilities of a bass player.
[/quote]

Actually most players of these instruments seem to favour a technique that has more in common with classical guitar than traditional bass guitar.

Most of the clips that get posted are of solo pieces. Anyone got some links to 9+ string being played in a band context?

[Russ]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1339012142' post='1682499']
Actually most players of these instruments seem to favour a technique that has more in common with classical guitar than traditional bass guitar.

Most of the clips that get posted are of solo pieces. Anyone got some links to 9+ string being played in a band context?
[/quote]

The classical guitar-style technique that some ERB players use is equally applicable to players of lesser-endowed basses - I use it a lot for various things. It's one of a range of extended techniques that can be used on the bass, including slap, tapping, etc. These sorts of techniques tend to get used a lot on ERBs, mostly because the people who choose to play them are, almost by definition, more adventurous players. Nobody would call Matt Garrison any less of a bass player because he uses a classical guitar-derived thumb-and-fingers technique on the bass.

I've also noticed a lot of players who use ERBs are readers - on a 7-string, you've got the entire range of a regular 4-string bass under your hand in fifth-fret position, which makes reading easier since there's no need to do big leaps up the fingerboard to get to the higher notes.