How does your drummer keep the volume down?

[jbn4001]

A drummer who can't play quietly is a drummer that isn't in control of his technique. I've played with several drummers. I've tried in vain to work with drummers that can't control dynamics or listen to the rest of the group - but I can't. If your drummer can't play with feel and articulation at quieter levels, he should get some drum lessons or tuition books/vids. If he's open to this, then all power to him. IMHO.

[peteb]

There are different types of drummers, who have developed a different technique to suit how they want to play.

I mentioned above someone who is a hard-hitting Bonham type rock drummer, but I can also think of another guy who is a terrific technical player but very quiet (no use in a rock band)!

Both very good in demand players, both pretty successful drum teachers but one can't can't play loud and the other can't play soft convincingly. Just different types of players who play in different types of musical situations.....

Edited June 7, 2012 by peteb

[D.I. Joe]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1339095306' post='1683649']


But did it help with his volume..?
[/quote]

:|

[LawrenceH]

I'm no drummer but have noticed differences and spoken to various good drummers about this. Something to bear in mind and encourage good technique...
Heavy cymbals tend to encourage harder hitting, if a drummer adjusts to light/thin cymbals he will find he's hitting softer with lighter sticks to get a similar tone but at lower volume - hitting hard just ruins the sound and leads to broken cymbals ie a financial AND musical incentive!
Choosing a good snare drum for low volume playing also makes a BIG difference. Some are just b&*(%^d loud no matter what, definitely noticed this when playing with the same drummer but on different kits.

[ZMech]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1339094540' post='1683622'] says hitting softer [s]affects[/s] [b]exposes[/b] technique
[/quote]

I think this is what he actually means

[dudewheresmybass]

Put him in another room?

[BluRay]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1339100063' post='1683773']
Have you tried turning his knob down?
[/quote]
Our drummer has a volume pot glued to the bass drum. That's what passes for drummer humour.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1339094802' post='1683631']
Hotrods FTW!

Other solution is an electronic kit. Can get Roland & Yamaha ones at a decent price now & they sound awesome.
[/quote]

yes yes but they are also a total mindf*ck as a bass player standing next to a drumkit thats making no acoustic noise and youre hearing the drums only via the PA

and dont get me started on the rubber cymbals!!!

sound nice yes but me no likey

[cheddatom]

As a drummer... Hitting drums less hard yields a different sound from them. There's no denying that fact. However, a good drummer should be able to get a usable sound at any "level".

One band I play in are quiet, and also very dynamic, so I use light sticks and sometimes hot rods, and I play with a lighter touch. I can't get the same beautiful wack out of my snare as when I play hard rim shots all the time with my rock band, but who cares?! It still sounds good.

[Bilbo]

I did a piano trio gig once where the band was in the middle of diners. The drummer was so close to the punters that his cymbales were nearer them than they were to him. I was watching him at one point and he was hitting his snare drum so quietly that the snare (which was on) wasn't actually ratlling! Its all about control. No instrument is inately loud; it is up to the player to control volume.

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1339094745' post='1683630']
He doesn't.
[/quote]

Snap.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1339143084' post='1684170']
I did a piano trio gig once where the band was in the middle of diners. The drummer was so close to the punters that his cymbales were nearer them than they were to him. I was watching him at one point and he was hitting his snare drum so quietly that the snare (which was on) wasn't actually ratlling! Its all about control. No instrument is inately loud; it is up to the player to control volume.
[/quote]
I sometimes play with a drummer who varies what drums he uses for each particular gig. For example, he has three different snare drums - I don't know the details but one is big, one is medium and one is small and he'll choose the one he thinks will be most appropriate for that gig.

[chris_b]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1339094540' post='1683622']
....We have a few weddings booked this yr where we've been asked to keep the volume to a reasonable level....
[/quote]

You’ve identified your problem. You think your volume is dictated by your drummer and you're now finding out that your volume should be dictated by the gig. How many bands get that one wrong?

I know players and several bands that have lost gigs because they were too loud and couldn’t or wouldn’t play quieter. I know a great bass player who lost his band gig because he refused to turn up! I have 3 rigs; one for very loud, one for very quiet and one for everything else. That’s what you need to play every gig you are offered.

If your band wants to do functions and weddings etc, then you will all have to change something to achieve the dynamic range you need for these gigs.

Realistically your drummer needs 2 different kits. If he can’t or won’t do it that way then he’ll have to make the difference by changing his playing technique. Either way he/the band will have to change. you can’t blast though these gigs cos "that's your sound". There’s no point in being a square peg in a round hole so you have to be flexible enough to do what they require or say no to the gig.

Edited June 8, 2012 by chris_b

[Jazzneck]

Our drummer does - fantastic technique and can play in all situations and styles - we are very fortunate.

However, in the distant past, I found that a P bass headstock scraped backwards across the drummers scalp could have the desired effect............................

[samzemuel]

Iv just done two gigs where the venue wanted the first 2 of 3 sets to be more "relaxed" due to going from dual vocals to solo vocals with a new singer the songs we could play were limited we had no extras!

Also using a dep drummer aol wasn't sure how we could manage it but the drummer really lead the way keeping his kit under full control. It gave us all the ability to focus on our playing and out in a good function performance. Win one for the drummer!!

[peteb]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1339143084' post='1684170']
I was watching him at one point and he was hitting his snare drum so quietly that the snare (which was on) wasn't actually ratlling! Its all about control.
[/quote]
If he was playing THAT quietly, what exactly was the point of him being there??

[Twigman]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1339094877' post='1683632']
Our drummer is in control of his volume. This is in part by using a variety of sticks, beaters, brushes, hot rods, etc., but mostly by only hitting the drums and cymbals as hard as is needed for the song and the gig.
[/quote]

What he said.
It's the only solution.

[Commando Jack]

Everyone's covered the basics for changing the drummer's sound and technique etc. Another solution I've seen that can work for some venues (usually churches) is perspex screens like [url="http://www.drumscreens.co.uk/tech%20specs.html"]these[/url]. The drummer plays at his normal volume, so you get the sound you admire, but the front of house volume is reduced and balanced through the PA. The drummer would probably need in-ear monitoring though, because the kit is really bloody loud behind the perspex. It would work for your typical wedding venues that are a stage at the end of a large rectangular room, but not for Bilbo's restaurant example obviously!

Edited June 8, 2012 by Commando Jack

[Dr.Dave]

Martin's a very experienced and skilled drummer - he could just play quieter , or he could use practise sticks.

But we won't allow him to. His being a big hitter is part of the reason we chose him and he chose us so if venues don't want that they're welcome to go get another band.

When I tell publicans what beer to sell they can tell me how to play. One of the benefits of not being fully professional is you don't have to compromise your music. Remember , also , to never respect the opinions of publicans - chances are they're just drunks who can't get proper jobs. In fact only speak to them to book gigs or ask for your money. 30 + years of gigging have taught me it's better that way.

[peteb]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1339153597' post='1684414']
Martin's a very experienced and skilled drummer - he could just play quieter , or he could use practise sticks.

But we won't allow him to. His being a big hitter is part of the reason we chose him and he chose us so if venues don't want that they're welcome to go get another band.

When I tell publicans what beer to sell they can tell me how to play. One of the benefits of not being fully professional is you don't have to compromise your music. Remember , also , to never respect the opinions of publicans - chances are they're just drunks who can't get proper jobs. In fact only speak to them to book gigs or ask for your money. 30 + years of gigging have taught me it's better that way.
[/quote]
Well said that man - a very enlightened and totally correct contribution to the debate!

[discreet]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1339153597' post='1684414']
...never respect the opinions of publicans - chances are they're just drunks who can't get proper jobs...[/quote]

A very well-observed comment and so true - which is why it's funny.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1339153597' post='1684414']
Martin's a very experienced and skilled drummer - he could just play quieter , or he could use practise sticks.

But we won't allow him to. His being a big hitter is part of the reason we chose him and he chose us so if venues don't want that they're welcome to go get another band.

When I tell publicans what beer to sell they can tell me how to play. One of the benefits of not being fully professional is you don't have to compromise your music. Remember , also , to never respect the opinions of publicans - chances are they're just drunks who can't get proper jobs. In fact only speak to them to book gigs or ask for your money. 30 + years of gigging have taught me it's better that way.
[/quote]

If the "like" button still existed, I would have just pressed it. I for one could certainly play quieter. In fact I would like to be able to play quieter since playing at really high volumes is murder on your muscles. But I can't, because the drums will not have the right sound for the music we're doing. It is all about context though. The idea of perspex screens sounds good, but then again it is a case of can you fit it on the stage?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1339139139' post='1684124']
yes yes but they are also a total mindf*ck as a bass player standing next to a drumkit thats making no acoustic noise and youre hearing the drums only via the PA

and dont get me started on the rubber cymbals!!!

sound nice yes but me no likey
[/quote]

Very true, but Rubber cymbals do have one major advantage...

They won't make you deaf!

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='BluRay' timestamp='1339138925' post='1684119']
Our drummer has a volume pot glued to the bass drum. That's what passes for drummer humour.
[/quote]

I bet its stuck on 11 though!!!

Our drummer just brings the right kit for the right gig(hopefully) Mind you he has 18 to choose from!!!!!!...starngely enough he is always skint!

[CS2]

[quote name='Commando Jack' timestamp='1339153117' post='1684397']
Everyone's covered the basics for changing the drummer's sound and technique etc. Another solution I've seen that can work for some venues (usually churches) is perspex screens like [url="http://www.drumscreens.co.uk/tech%20specs.html"]these[/url]. The drummer plays at his normal volume, so you get the sound you admire, but the front of house volume is reduced and balanced through the PA. The drummer would probably need in-ear monitoring though, because the kit is really bloody loud behind the perspex. It would work for your typical wedding venues that are a stage at the end of a large rectangular room, but not for Bilbo's restaurant example obviously!
[/quote]

Screens can help or hinder. I have played in a church that has used various drummers over the years. At one stage we had two regulars, one who was deafening and one who was very quiet. When the screens were installed the loud guy played as loud as he could to compensate and still overpowered the band. The quiet one couldnt be heard on stage and the timing fell apart. So the kit got mic'd up and the monitors had to be upgraded.


[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1339153597' post='1684414']
Martin's a very experienced and skilled drummer - he could just play quieter , or he could use practise sticks.

But we won't allow him to. His being a big hitter is part of the reason we chose him and he chose us so if venues don't want that they're welcome to go get another band.

When I tell publicans what beer to sell they can tell me how to play. One of the benefits of not being fully professional is you don't have to compromise your music. Remember , also , to never respect the opinions of publicans - chances are they're just drunks who can't get proper jobs. In fact only speak to them to book gigs or ask for your money. 30 + years of gigging have taught me it's better that way.
[/quote]

If you continue to get repeat bookings then you are playing at the right volume.

As a general point, drummers are different and IMHO they learn to play at a certain volume and after a certain point cannot play any other way. Muscle memory? The loud guy in my earlier story started out in a brass band where the conductor would scream abuse if they were not loud enough. The soft guy was continually told he was too loud enough. Ironically when he played in a covers band the clients always complemented him on getting a good sound at very low volume. My 20 year old son has been playing at home since he was 6. He has always got shouted at re volume. I arranged a two band thingy at a party recently and my son used sticks yet the other drummer had to use hotrods to get the same volume. I once did a band teaching thingy and the drummer was a tiny teenage girl who needed to be mic'd up when she hit the drums as hard as she could. Regretably I've been involved in some events with two drummers playing and one couldnt hit the kit as loud as the other.

In the end the drummer has to be a fit for the band. I'd rather play with a soft one and so does my tinnitus.