gub Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Well after much deliberation and having to let our 2nd guitarist go we are now down to a 4piece , guitar ,bass, vocal and drums . We rehearsed last night and so far it's not sounding bad ,we may struggle with some songs and may have to drop some and replace with others which lend themselves to one guitar , Any tips from you guys would be great on getting a full sound , so far our guitarist has put more reverb on for solos and uses his les paul insted of his tele on some songs as seems to cut through better , and I have turned up a bit , and used my active ibanez which seems to sit well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I find a little bit of drive goes a long way, especially behind guitar solos. Possibly a bit of chorus too, to thicken out the sound a little. Edit: By a little bit of drive i mean a little bit, too much and you wont be able to fill out the space fully. My new band is of a heavier persuasion, doing a lot of harmonised solo work so in solos i am essentially in the same boat (the harmonies just thicken out the guitar and not the whole sound). I've also got to add that a band i love (Boomin) are a 3 piece and their bassist quite often just uses a P-Deluxe (With a JJ pickup at the bridge) straight into his Ashdown ABM, occasionally using fuzz, and their sound is never lacking. Liam Edited June 8, 2012 by LiamPodmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='gub' timestamp='1339147341' post='1684253'] Well after much deliberation and having to let our 2nd guitarist go we are now down to a 4piece , guitar ,bass, vocal and drums . We rehearsed last night and so far it's not sounding bad ,we may struggle with some songs and may have to drop some and replace with others which lend themselves to one guitar , Any tips from you guys would be great on getting a full sound , so far our guitarist has put more reverb on for solos and uses his les paul insted of his tele on some songs as seems to cut through better , and I have turned up a bit , and used my active ibanez which seems to sit well . [/quote] Best advice is to adapt your tunes to what you have. You're never going to sound like a five piece with four people, so don't waste your time trying. You'll just end up trying to fill the space with effects and sounds that muddy everything up. Edited June 8, 2012 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='gub' timestamp='1339147341' post='1684253'] Well after much deliberation and having to let our 2nd guitarist go we are now down to a 4piece , guitar ,bass, vocal and drums . We rehearsed last night and so far it's not sounding bad ,we may struggle with some songs and may have to drop some and replace with others which lend themselves to one guitar , [b]Any tips from you guys would be great on getting a full sound ,[/b] so far our guitarist has put more reverb on for solos and uses his les paul insted of his tele on some songs as seems to cut through better , and I have turned up a bit , and used my active ibanez which seems to sit well . [/quote] It's ALL in the arrangement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 just a thought - make sure you're not just comparing what you sounded like with the extra guitarist. i think working on the arrangements of the songs would yield a better sound rather than changing tones ymmv naturellement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339148248' post='1684275'] It's ALL in the arrangement. [/quote] jinx ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) In my ever so 'umble opine. Get rid of the vocalist and share the duties . A[b] three [/b]piece is the[i] ultimate [/i]rock set up for showing your stuff. No rhythm guitar to hide behind for the bass or lead. So its sink or swim Though i [i]suppose[/i] 4 pieces aren't [i]too[/i] bad (see below. [i]Brilliant[/i] sparse bass line, at just the right level, from Phil) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZRX4zFZolw[/media] ps: Cozy Powell on drums. I remember him on TOTP when i was a kid. the only guy ever to have a top 10 hit with a record that was 90% drums !!!! [u]RIP.[/u] Phil. Gary, Cozy. Long live Scott (He says Golf saved his life and gave him another addiction than drugs) Edited June 8, 2012 by daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If you want a "wall of sound" then keep the guy. If you are serious about being a 4 piece then just play everything the same. 4 people will never sound the same as 5 so embrace the difference. If you try to plug up all the gaps you'll just sound bad, really bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Less is more IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='gub' timestamp='1339147341' post='1684253'] ...Any tips from you guys would be great on getting a full sound... [/quote] it's less the fx but the arrangement. maybe use more melodical basslines but share the space of the instruments well in the arrangements. also depends on the music. +1 what paul said. Edited June 8, 2012 by the_krysh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339148248' post='1684275'] It's ALL in the arrangement. [/quote] i know this from experiance! when my old band went from a 4 to a 3 piece, i was concerned it would sound less so i started using overdrive and a bit of chorus but it all got a bit much! so we when't the other way and tried to use the space, ended up rewriting parts we were over playing in etc as you just noticed it more. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricMike Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The covers band in which I am the guitarist went from a 5 to a 4 piece (vocals, guitar, bass, drums) some time when our keyboard player left. We did have to drop some songs but not that many. I now use effects (overdrive and chorus) more than I used to, though have to beware of too much overdrive as no-one wants to listen an angry wasp! My main recommendation though would be for the guitarist to try using some delay. It fills the sound out, and helps the guitar sit better in the mix. Of course it doesnt work in every song and there is no one setting fits all so it takes some experimentation to find what works best. U2 and Coldplay (whether you like their music or not they both make a big sound live for a 4 piece) both use a LOT of delay on guitar. Of course they also "cheat" with midi keyboard parts, and hidden keyboards player in U2s case, but the essential sound is still bass, drums and guitar). I also arpegiate the chords more than I would have done previously, and on some songs use the occassional extended chords where I would not have done previously. The bass player is normally a little busier than he would have been with the keyboard player, especially in instrumental breaks and sections, and a little gentle chorus on the bass works very well in some numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commando Jack Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Embrace the space! Basslines can be busier now that you've not got a second guitarist to compete with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Commando Jack' timestamp='1339153342' post='1684403'] Embrace the space! Basslines can be busier now that you've not got a second guitarist to compete with [/quote] On a more serious note, listen to how the punch, power and fullness diminishishes the busier you get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 In verses & choruses I think gtr/bass/drums/vocs is fine. It`s in the solo that the song can really drop, instead of rise. Experiment with effects on the guitar, and also think of ad-libs/runs on the bass that can fit in. Additionally, the drummer, simply by changing from one cymbal to another, or from toms to cymbals, can really change the dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339148248' post='1684275'] It's ALL in the arrangement. [/quote] It is...and most bands can't cope or deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1339153597' post='1684413'] It is...and most bands can't cope or deal with it. [/quote] True enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1339153577' post='1684412'] In verses & choruses I think gtr/bass/drums/vocs is fine. It`s in the solo that the song can really drop, instead of rise. Experiment with effects on the guitar, and also think of ad-libs/runs on the bass that can fit in. Additionally, the drummer, simply by changing from one cymbal to another, or from toms to cymbals, can really change the dynamics. [/quote] Or... don't try to keep it "rocking" during the lead solo. go for a solid rhythm section groove and give space to the lead break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1339154124' post='1684429'] Or... don't try to keep it "rocking" during the lead solo. go for a solid rhythm section groove and give space to the lead break. [/quote] Where it can all go wrong is during improvised guitar solos played by inexperienced musicians who don't listen enough or have few arrangement skills. If the solo is more or less written, try writing more bass harmony against the solo, the right bass/guitar intervals can make everything sound much fuller and much more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Two words - Black Sabbath. You'll be fine, fill in the guitar void with the bass and it will sound awesome. \m/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I would say don't try to fill up the sound too much. There are far more opportunities for dynamics in a stripped down line up. The gaps are my favourite bits and you can make a virtue out of them. We don't have too many conventional solos in the set and there's a lot of just bass and drum action. When the guitarist is having a widdle I tend to simplify my (already simple) lines a touch. Ditching the rhythm guitarist was the best thing we ever did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 We did this about 10 years ago, never regretted it. Our keyboard player left due to work travel. Now = guitar, bass and drums. + Female vocal, We are now tighter, happier. I had to change the way I played which was a very staccato attacking punctuated style to be heard through the wall of synth sound. I can now play quieter sensitive phrases and be heard, we've got our dynamics back. And I know our new guitarist is with us for the same reasons, It gives him freedom of expression. There will be numbers you can’t do, but we don’t give up until we have tried them, Vocals make a difference, if three of you can sing harmonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Don't play more because there is more space to fill. Overplaying will detract from the number every time, and just makes the band look bad. I play in a trio and if the guitarist stops playing, to talk to the audience, to tune up or whatever, we carry on the same. There is no drop in groove, drive, punch or anything else. There is a change in dynamics but you can play around with the dynamics all night to great effect. I don’t use pedals. You don’t need them just because you are in a trio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commando Jack Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1339155985' post='1684492'] I don’t use pedals. You don’t need them just because you are in a trio. [/quote] True, although I've found it really helpful to eq to fit the space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339153533' post='1684409'] On a more serious note, listen to how the punch, power and fullness diminishes the busier you get [/quote] Never a truer word spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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