First Post On Bass Chat! Question on 'groove' and playing with drummers

[Haydenr25]

Hey all, first post here on Bass Chat, so first i'd like to say hello
Now, onto the topic: I was wondering how I can develop my ''rhythm skills'' in the style of the Stone Roses more Led-Zep influenced tracks.
These are the songs:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZy19QzqUKk[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmR9F12CVIM[/media]

What I want to achieve is the groove and relationship between the drums and bass - that gives the music the ''bounce'' or ''groove''.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Haydenr25

[EdwardHimself]

I think you are opening a can of worms if you mention the "D" word on here . Seriously though, the thing is that you have got to hear the bass drum. That is the most important thing. The kick drum and the bass guitar have got to become almost as if they are one instrument, like a bass but with more attack. Unfortunately this is not always easy, especially if your drummer is not very tight in terms of timing. Every drummer you play with is different though; you've got to get used to playing with them and the small aspects of their playing like whether they play in front of or behind the beat and suchlike before you can really lock yourself in tight.

Edited June 8, 2012 by EdwardHimself

[xilddx]

I agree with your last sentence Edward, but I will NEVER agree that the bass has to play on the kick drum. The bass can do ANYTHING as long as the band agree it's musical and achieving the songwriter's vision.

As for the OP's question about 'bounce' and 'groove', it depends how you define those terms. I can't hear the vids as I'm at work, but look at syncopation with the drums, play with space and accents. If the drummer is good, this should not be difficult, but the drummer has to be solid and tasteful.

Try this, get the drums to do a very simple uptempo 4/4 boom tish boom tish type thing, then play a melodic bass line with notes only on the off-beats. That should bounce, and have groove. And you will be nowhere near the kick or snare either.

[Judo Chop]

There's a bass only track of Love Spreads on YouTube, and a B-Side called Breakout which is just Breaking Into Heaven without the guitar too. They should help you get your head round it a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESidbicf8TA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhoVFbyHz_c

[xilddx]

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1339170428' post='1684862']
There's a bass only track of Love Spreads on YouTube, and a B-Side called Breakout which is just Breaking Into Heaven without the guitar too. They should help you get your head round it a bit.

[/quote]

I could hear those (the OPs get blocked as my internet connection goes via bloody Germany). Interesting, he's playing a lot of off-beat accents, a bit like I was saying in my previous post, it does indeed bounce

[BottomE]

A lot of the the time a groove can be really improved/changed by paying careful attention to the length of the note that you play. Its amazing how effective this can be and its not often talked about - least on here anyway. Try playing the same line but varying the length of the notes in certain parts and get ready to be amazed at how much of a difference this can make. This is one of many ways (and an easy one) to improve your connection to the rhythm.

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339170714' post='1684870']


I could hear those (the OPs get blocked as my internet connection goes via bloody Germany). Interesting, he's playing a lot of off-beat accents, a bit like I was saying in my previous post, it does indeed bounce
[/quote]

It does doesn't it? Both great fun to play too.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1339170919' post='1684877']
A lot of the the time a groove can be really improved/changed by paying careful attention to the length of the note that you play. Its amazing how effective this can be and its not often talked about - least on here anyway. Try playing the same line but varying the length of the notes in certain parts and get ready to be amazed at how much of a difference this can make. This is one of many ways (and an easy one) to improve your connection to the rhythm.
[/quote]
Bang on, really important. I rarely see discussions about expression and expression techniques.

[YouMa]

get in to soul and funk/jazz music then the rest will come easy.

[ZMech]

The short answer: Spend lots of time working on your timing and dynamics.

For a more substantial answer, try checking out[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/177684-areas-of-improvement-things-a-bass-player-can-do-to-actually-improve/"] this thread[/url] from the other week. It has many suggestions for ways to work on these kind of aspects of your playing.

Welcome to BC

[Chris2112]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339169673' post='1684845']
I agree with your last sentence Edward, but I will NEVER agree that the bass has to play on the kick drum. The bass can do ANYTHING as long as the band agree it's musical and achieving the songwriter's vision.
[/quote]

Indeed.

OP, I would sugges that paying attention to the drums is a good place to start, for now. Get a feel for the drum parts, just listening mainly for the kick drum, the hi-hat and the snare. The 'pulse' will probably be made out on the kick drum and snare with accents on the snare and hi-hat. Once you've locked in with the pulse, start accenting your phrases on the bass in time with the accents given by the drummer. It's not something that will come immediately, but when it clicks you will feel and sound locked in and the drums will feel like an extension of your bass.

A tricky thing to write about or explain, though really the way to get locked in with those drums is just to sit and practice with music, and develop your ear. Eventually it becomes a natural thing, you'll be able to lock in with a drummer/drum track very quickly once you're used to it.