PlungerModerno Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 42 is enough. The power of 42 suns!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I recently picked a Peavey Databass combo (400w into a Black Widow 15") for well in your budget, I leave at the rehearsal space to save me humping gear back and forth! That will EASILY compete with any drummer and you'd not need to upgrade when you were gigging... not offering to sell mine btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1339412250' post='1687971'] It's not about volume,it's about headroom.Low frequencies eat watts.150 watts RMS is the minimum I'd consider for rehersals. [/quote] I can manage with my 70W 115 ampeg combo for small-room rehearsals but it's usually cranked up close to the max, so I'd agree that 150W would be more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 300W minimum in my humble opinion. Headroom is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The watts required to have headroom aplenty (ie to make nice sounding bass tones) depends on the cabs efficiency. WHich is partly why there are a lot of different numbers quoted in this thread! I would agree with Lozz and Fretmeister that to feel confident of a rig for playing out I woudl look to start with 300w at least. That would be solid state. Tubes behave very differently to solid state though (preamp and poweramp) giving noticeable compression effects as the input level increases. They then overdrive in a harmonically more pleasing way than solid state tends to. The upshot is that a valve head can have less watts output, and sound nice (though not clean) being driven harder to make the same apparent output volume. But for £150 you arent likely to get a great valve head with a lot of trouble free hours of use left in it imo. I'd think about saving for as long as you can, research well and buy second hand to get the most bang for the buck and best resale value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapsimon Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1345219425' post='1775193'] 300W minimum in my humble opinion. Headroom is necessary. [/quote] Ditto this. I started out with a little bedroom amp as a kid then spent out on a trace Elliot gp7 150watt to battle my first drummer and guitarist. It lasted until I came home from our first pub gig. If you can rely on really good pa support that's great, If not then 300watts and a single cab (15 or 4x10) is what you need to get you started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A cheap 115 will struggle to cope with 300w, in fact it will be 8Ohm so you will only get at best 150w out of said speaker with a 300w amp. Go for a 4 ohm 212 (or a good 4ohm 410, but cheap ones weigh a tonne) if possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This thread is over 2 months old, have you bought anything yet? (Just 'cos I have a great 4x10" for sale................) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichF Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 i would love it if he came back to tell us he's bought an £5K Hellborg rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='RichF' timestamp='1345228836' post='1775375'] i would love it if he came back to tell us he's bought an £5K Hellborg rig. [/quote] Only to tell us it's too loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichF Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1345229527' post='1775393'] Only to tell us it's too loud! [/quote] well I'd be happy to swap him for an Ashdown or a Peavey TNT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Some guys/girls gig with seriously low wattage amps. There is no reason why you can't. Edited August 17, 2012 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1345230282' post='1775401'] Some guys/girls gig with seriously low wattage amps. There is no reason why you can't. [/quote] Yeah there is, you wont be able to hear yourself against a drummer, and your tone will be a pile of doodoo due to having no headroom for the bass end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1345233803' post='1775466'] Yeah there is, you wont be able to hear yourself against a drummer, and your tone will be a pile of doodoo due to having no headroom for the bass end [/quote] It is subject to the venue & other factors though. I've gigged with a 30w 1x12 combo in a 4 piece rock band & been able to hear myself (& be heard by the audience). Was not in a noisy pub/club venue though, but the drummer was a rather heavy hitter. I've also gigged with 90w & 150w heads going into 1 or 2 1x15s in larger pub club venues & had no probs being heard. It's how much air you're moving, not how many watts you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1345215276' post='1775122'] A speaker has an efficiency and this is defined as how much sound, or how loud, a speaker will go given an input of 1 watt at a distance of 1 meter. A figure of 98db means that with 1 watt input that speaker will have an efficiency of 98db. [b]An increase of 3db is a doubling of output so a 101db speaker will be twice as loud as a 98db speaker. As the 101db efficiency speaker is twice as efficient as the 98db speaker it will only require half the amplifier power to get the same volume hence[/b], [i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]120db with a 98db/w speaker at 1 meter you suggest 200w, but if that goes through a 95db/w speaker then it needs a 400w head, or only 100w with a 102db/w speaker. [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There is a lot more to it than that of course, but that is the basic principle.[/font][/color][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I hope that explains it for you[/font][/color][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif].[/font][/color][/i] [/quote] Although what you're saying is right, the reason you've given (which I've put in bold) is misleading. 3db is the increase in volume you'll get when you double the power, but it's not twice the volume - you'll need a 10db increase for that. So while a cab which is 3db more efficient will achieve the same volume with half the power, the actual increase in volume is pretty insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1345233803' post='1775466'] Yeah there is, you wont be able to hear yourself against a drummer, and your tone will be a pile of doodoo due to having no headroom for the bass end [/quote] That isn't always the way though is it? There are many players using high end low wattage tube amps (eg 50W) through whatever cab, enjoying enough volume and great tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Until you get band with big PA you need plenty of Watts and sensitive speakers. As mentioned before Peavey kit good value, I sold 300W bass combo for £130, fair tone, heavy though. In my current band, vocal pa only, guitars 20W combos, 700W peavey tour and barefaced Dubster is adequate. Peavey Tours on here for good money, then save for good cab or build own. Spend once, not many times. Have fun. Edited August 17, 2012 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie The Rad Dorklift Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I gig mainly with a humble 12" Markbass combo. 300w solid state, turned up about half. But I've also played arenas where the back line is a 300w valve head and 8x10. Both were fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I was actually trying to make the explanation as simple as possible and to say that to get the same output out of a speaker 3db lower in efficiency you would need to double the amp power but to the ear this will not actually make a lot of difference as you would need a 10db increase to hear an apparent doubling of volume, I thought would have been a bit confusing and also didn't answer the original question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 A rig capable of delivering 300 good watts should be the norm ....and either use half that or if you need more have a rig with a lot in hand in both amp output and cab handling. Single chassis combos (pushed ) tend to struggle to my ears....if the amount of times I hear them round here is anything to go by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I must be slacking. How much power do you need? All of it. Every bit. and then a bit more. my Rig of Doom V2 was 2600W. It was awesome. I've giving serious thought to re-building it with a pair of Barefaced Big Ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1345233803' post='1775466'] Yeah there is, you wont be able to hear yourself against a drummer, and your tone will be a pile of doodoo due to having no headroom for the bass end [/quote] All the pub gigs I've done over the last 20 years have been with a Trace Elliot AH100 amp and a single 15" cab and I've never had either of those problems. Never run out of headroom either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='spike' timestamp='1345300889' post='1776066'] All the pub gigs I've done over the last 20 years have been with a Trace Elliot AH100 amp and a single 15" cab and I've never had either of those problems. Never run out of headroom either. [/quote] Exactly where I was coming from. I don't ever use thunderous huge amounts of low end anyway. It just isn't my sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Up until now I`ve been using 500 watts, into a single 4ohm 410 (always rated higher than 500 watts). And never needed anywhere near what was available, always at less than 9 o`clock on volume. I`m going back to Ampeg, getting a PF500 with the matching single 8ohm 410. I`ll be getting 300 watts. That will be plenty for my needs. If I`m ever looking to join a band where it turns out I need more, well I think I`d consider not joining them for the sake of my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassdriver Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I would echo the advice given on page one of the thread. Not read through the rest... Busy day! Definitely don't buy new. Let someone else take the depreciation. Decent used gear is the way to go. The Ashdown rig in my sig came to me as a bargain for £125 and is loud enough for rehearsing with a fairly loud drummer and 2 guitarists with 100w amps going through 4x12 cabs. Ear protection is advisable at this kind of volume. I wish I'd thought of that years ago when I started playing. There was an old Peavy MKIV amp one here recently. something like that with a 15 or 2x10 cab would do you. Just cos it's old doesn't mean it's no good. Heavier than newer gear maybe but probably more affordable. Peavy combos were always well thought of in the bass world. IIRC TKO180 and TKO300 were marketed towards keyboard players but were used a lot by bass players because they had the good low end needed by keys. Perhaps they were TNTs, or did the TKO come with a graphic EQ which the TNT didn't... :-s If your 15/25w amps have been keeping up with your drummer they're really not playing very hard at all IMO (the drummer, not the amps). I'd be looking at 100w minimum but would suggest buying the biggest you possibly can for the money you have. Forget getting just enough for practices. Buy something older you could gig with. Then you're not limited to gigs where backline is included. You'll only need to upgrade again sooner otherwise ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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