paul h Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1339765480' post='1693978'] do danelectro's lipstick pickups qualify as high quality? [/quote] Dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I do know that with acoustic guitars, even the same instrument made with the same types of wood can sound different from one another. As for basses, I haven't a scooby. Some say the wood makes a difference, some say it doesn't. If the instrument sounds & looks good, I'll leave the rest to the luthier. Sorry I never got back to your response Luke, Busy at work & then a load of other responses. But my answer is..... No idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh here! I do know something after all... 18 pages over 18 months & still no one has given a definite answer that the majority agree on! & if tonewood is important, what about full carbon bass? Does it sound the same as a bass made out of used firewood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1339766759' post='1694010'] Oh here! I do know something after all... 18 pages over 18 months & still no one has given a definite answer that the majority agree on! & if tonewood is important, what about full carbon bass? Does it sound the same as a bass made out of used firewood? [/quote] If I were a bass builder I would market the used firewood as "Roasted Ash" and charge extra for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The type of wood makes a tiny, almost negligible difference to the amplified sound of solid electric bass guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1339770211' post='1694083'] I am determined when my hands a better to finish the one I started made from two bed headboards and a thin strip of mahogany and an MDF guitar. I did see somewhere the other day a thread where a couple of guys are building guitars Dano style with a Ply frame and MDF . But why would someone build something like that for commercial gain? As soon as someone seen it it would get bashed on the internet and they would lose custom. Instant marketing fail. [/quote] I wanted years back to make a ply body guitar like that (MDF would be too heavy I think) and got a fair number of people on here advising me not too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The problem with MDF is if it get's beer spilled on it, it then soaks it up, expands & weighs even more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1339757173' post='1693770'] Just realised Mr Foxen has also mentioned another factor which is really important but I don't think anyone has talked about, the damping factor (Q). Just like in a loudspeaker or electronic filter this relates to bandwidth and amplitude at resonance. Pick two hypothetical bits of wood with the same resonant frequency but very different q, make them into solid blocks like xylophone keys and hit them. The high q bit of wood will ring longer and sound a clearer note than the low q bit. Put a string along it and tune it to a similar frequency and pluck it, acoustically you will still get very different outputs as one block amplifies the note better than the other. Now add on a piezo and you should see the effect electrically as well, and all without a hollow body. Can the question be simplified to ask what is the difference in resonant frequency and q between different bits of wood, and how do the frequencies of resonance relate to the notes of a bass guitar? If the resonance isn't anywhere near the first few harmonics (say arbitrarily higher than 1k) and/or q is always low (the fact xylophone keys work would suggest otherwise) then wood variations couldn't impact much on tone. But otherwise then you'd expect to be able to measure it. I think in a lot of designs they're stiff enough that the major resonances ARE shifted higher and/or well damped which is why pine lumber can sound similar to say a guitar-shaped lump of alder. Laminate construction will obviously help here, making it stiff enough to shift the resonances higher to a range where they're not able to impact upon major string overtones. BUT, and this is from building loudspeakers and hearing the resonant panel modes in relation to their size, I would expect that some types of construction would have resonances and be of high enough q factor to audibly impact upon the midrange of the instrument. I am shifting further off the fence to say that wood [i]could be made to be [/i]important to tone. But still in a lot of cases changing it round won't do much because resonance and/or q won't be in range. So everyone's right, hurrah. [/quote] Exactly my argument in the maple vs rosewood debate. This may be more apparent unplugged than plugged in, but I think (my opinion) has an affect on the sound. This may also explain the whole 'nitro paint allowing a body to breathe' myth, which I'm not so sure about. I usually prefer to use my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1339677653' post='1692500'] +1 neepheid Construction techniques have more impact than choice of woods. Elsewhere on the boards there's a thread running where it's being claimed that the slither of touchboard material has a marked impact on the sound produced by a bass (it being stated that rosewood dampens the overall sound). Personally, I think that assertion is nonsense (not least because a fretted string almost never touches the board, but the fret wire, so even accepting transmission and dissipation arguments it's difficult to see how the wire isn't having more of an impact than the touchboard wood). [/quote] Why does the string have to touch the board to affect the tone? This is something you seem to assume matters but you've not explained why. Soundwaves react differently off different surfaces. Not because they are connected to them but because sound waves travel. I'll admit, one thing that has not been mentioned in the fretboard argument is that maple is nearly always finished with a hard lacquer and rosewood left bare. This will have a bigger impact, I'm sure, but if it has any impact at all, then surely this can be an argument that a different material will affect tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 If you took your bass that has a maple board & played an open A, then swapped the neck for a rosewood board & played an open A, would the fretboard make them sound different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1339871418' post='1695774'] I usually prefer to use my ears. [/quote] Nonono, that's absolutely not allowed! What if they actually heard something!? Placebo effect...uncontrolled variables...double-blind...bip bip bip kaboom Edited June 16, 2012 by LawrenceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1339871418' post='1695774'] This may also explain the whole 'nitro paint allowing a body to breathe' myth, which I'm not so sure about. [/quote] That one was totally killed by the pointing out that Fender used a sealer under the nitro coat. Plus the body breathing would be a total fail of warping. [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1339887844' post='1696036'] If you took your bass that has a maple board & played an open A, then swapped the neck for a rosewood board & played an open A, would the fretboard make them sound different? [/quote] Important bit would be swapping a single piece of wood to a multiple density laminate, which is a fairly significant structural thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1339888956' post='1696042'] That one was totally killed by the pointing out that Fender used a sealer under the nitro coat. Plus the body breathing would be a total fail of warping. Important bit would be swapping a single piece of wood to a multiple density laminate, which is a fairly significant structural thing. [/quote] I went into a guitar shop and tried out a fender jazz bass. Maple neck rosewood board. I also tried one of the overwater/tanglewood basses that had a 3 piece maple neck and rosewood board. How much difference did that make you think? I mean apart from the fact one was a JJ and the other a PJ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Bring up the sample size to a a representative sample, and the laminated construction ones will exhibit greater consistency for given material quality because of the nature of laminated construction. Could probably assume Fender use a higher grade of wood to start with mind. The reason laminates and composites are used in mass production is because of this increased consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1339888956' post='1696042'] Important bit would be swapping a single piece of wood to a multiple density laminate, which is a fairly significant structural thing. [/quote] But what if they was both of the same construction. Say it's my Ibanez bass. It has a 5 piece maple/walnut neck with an ebony board. Now I get an identical neck but with a maple board (They never made them with maple boards, so hypothetical). Would there be any difference in sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 The point of the laminating is to render them more consistent when using a not consistent material. So the inconsistency of material you suggest will have its effect minimised, that's a whole bunch of the point of laminate construction, an inconsistency in a single component laminate will average out to be minimally detrimental to overall consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1339738498' post='1693453'] [/quote] Hey! Don't do that! I just woke up my dog, my kids and my ex, and probably the neighbours as well! The nerve.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Even acoustic instruments do not need 'good' woods to sound good. Bob Taylor, many years ago, stated that it was the skill of the luthier that gave an acoustic instrument a good sound. He then built a good flat-top out of pallets from the factory dumpster, to prove the point. Good wood is nice, but not neccessarily neccessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 [quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1340050962' post='1698392']Even acoustic instruments do not need 'good' woods to sound good.[/quote] Great point. Same with old violins from Cremona's most famous builders. Some decennia ago, on studying these thoroughly, one found a lot of stuff that one couldn't explain, like "bad" wood. The new theory got to be that the dozens of layers of varnish were at least as important as the tone wood. IIRC, some later "science" has thrown that theory again. I simply tell world famous violinists that tone is in your fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1339670201' post='1692269'] Someone posted an interesting clip on the "Discussions" forum, a while back ( I did a search for the thread with no luck). The clip consisted of an experimental recording done on three different woods, using the same pups and strings on each. The thing was that one of the "basses" was made from bits and pieces of planks that the guy had found in his shed. A surprising amount of people could not pick out the "Frankenstein" bass. [/quote] Found the clip in question : [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 IMO in the days when solid electric instruments were made of one piece of wood for the body, one for the neck (and maybe another for the fingerboard) the choice of wood might have had more of an effect on the overall sound. These days when all but some exotic custom basses are made of multiple pieces joined in several planes and when you consider that the glue joints are stronger than the actual wood itself, the type of construction is more important than any individual piece of wood used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 If you are going to be able to see the wood in the finished bass then pick some pieces that you like the look of. If you're going to have it painted a solid colour then pick something that will give you the correct weight when complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Good wood for guitars is defined by sounding good, not by any arbitrary label such as species derived stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) I would have also thought that growing conditions make just as much difference, so wood from two trees of the same species grown in two different locations with different environmental conditions will be completely different. Edited June 19, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckendrick Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1339582968' post='1690824'] Also Google snake oil [/quote] [quote name='charic' timestamp='1339583476' post='1690834'] That's for cleaning the fretboard, right? [/quote] Dude... any fule know it's for oiling yer snakes. . Edited June 19, 2012 by mckendrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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