General Ignorance of What Musicians Do

[xilddx]

I often think a lot of the general non-musician public think that what musicians do, and go through, is a lot easier and enjoyable and profitable than it actually is. Which is why I believe we musicians and our efforts are often undervalued.

But does it really matter? And is it the same for everything else that is widely consumed? Sport? Food production? Pubs and restaurants? Retailing? etc ..

[Happy Jack]

Well I don't really know what I'm doing ... so why should the punters?

[2pods]

I remember being told that I was "just getting paid for enjoying yourself" as if this was wrong, or some kind of scam

Of course, this was back in the dark ages, when every second person wasn't in a band, so being a musician wasn't THAT common then

YMMV

[JTUK]

Not sure punters undervalue as such..they just think that anyone who can play is great....otherwise they would get up there and play themselves.

The numbers of times I have been in a music shop lately where older people came in and brought gtrs just to hang on the wall..seriously..
and when I asked why they didn't think to learn to play them, they said they accept that they couldn't or wouldn't be able to.
Others have taken up an instrument after years of watching from afar at others.. and are belatedly trying to get ready for a stage performance.
I hope they don't think Rome was built in 6 months... and that it will takes ages... but I don't want to put them off.

[flyfisher]

Music is so widely and cheaply available these days that it has become devalued.

Before recording, music would only be heard live and, mostly, it would involve the exchange of money. Thus it was 'special' and it was valued. If you wanted to make music the only way would be to learn an instrument and that process would reinforce an appreciation of what's involved.

Today, music is everywhere and it's mostly free, thus diminishing its novelty and value.

Even when people pay a lot to attend a concert, a big part of it is about celebrity rather than the music itself.

C'est la vie.

[Lozz196]

Yep, people at work don`t see how a gig is actually quite demanding, after a full day at work.

Pack the car, leave home at 5.30, get to guitarists to distribute pa amongst the bands cars, get to venue, unpack it all, set it all up, soundcheck, prob all done by 8.30.

Go on at 9.30 - 11.30, then do all the above (side from soundcheck) in reverse, get home earliest 1.30am. After having got up at 6am.

They all think it`s just standing there playing a few tunes, as probably, do all non-musicians.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Lozz196

[4 Strings]

I'm and engineer and a musician (well I like to think so). To be paid for either I am a necessary evil.

People make money form buildings (engineering part) and my fees reduces what they can make they just have to have me to make anything.

Similarly for paid gigs, the venue owner/agent etc would much rather not pay as it cuts his profits but has to as we help to bring in the punters.

So the OP's question, yes, when its for money, my experience as a musician is the same as for anything else. As a punter I'm more than happy to pay to see a band. It goes nasty at the middleman.

[molan]

I think some of this just comes from a bit of a British mentality to put people down all the time. We can be a very negative race at the best of times and the current economic climate must be making things a lot worse for a lot of people. Anyone who appears to be enjoying themselves at work whilst getting paid for it seems to be a general target for a lot of people.

I definitely think that this isn't confined to music related things. I've worked in advertising for over 30 years and am totally used to people putting my profession down and saying what a waste of space we are & how we're all overpaid. It's certainly not the most worthy of jobs but, contrary to popular belief it does actually work - if it didn't clients would keep spending millions of pounds on it. I know this is a real generalisation because of the need for lots of businesses to advertise simply to compete with other advertisers & this has a spiralling effect but hopefully you get my drift.

The killer for me is usually about how overpaid people in the 'biz' are. It's certainly a potentially very highly paid job. But, like just like being a musician, if it was so easy then 'everybody would be doing it'!

It also kills me when people have a go at associated music biz people like luthiers & retailers. I mean, have you ever met anyone that's making serious money making guitars and/or selling them to the public? I've met plenty of these people and am quite good friends with some of them. Not one fot hem has a huge stash of cash anywhere and most are struggling to balance cash flow just so they can keep going

The associated, very British phenomena, is to take a pop at anyone successful. Especially if they are in any way in the public spotlight. Really annoys me to be honest, quite different in lots of other countries where success is celebrated rather than despised. . .

[TimR]

I think that anyone who has worked hard to become very good at their profession makes what they do look very easy. Be that carpenter, engineer, or musician.

Most people see someone doing something well and it looks easy.

How many people have said to you "I wish I could play an instrument. When I was younger I started to learn ....... but never stuck with it. "

So I think people know it's hard and takes a lot if work but think because they're enjoying listening and dancing then you must be enjoying playing, so why would you want to be paid?

[chris_b]

Nigel, you are absolutely right.

If we're good we make it look easy, and then people think it is.

It never ceases to surprise me that you can be asked to play a number and the audience can't grasp that you don't know it. "Can’t you just play it anyway?"

We're working when people are having fun so they think we're having fun as well. My wife always says, "Have fun". She never said that when I went to the office.

Musicians are not valued at all, even by other musicians. Note the number of BC members who think that copying music off the net isn't stealing.

[chrismuzz]

It's very demanding, expensive, and difficult to make a living from... even if the actual playing live part is a hell of a lot of fun!

[Big_Stu]

I gave up wondering or thinking what people think about what I do in any aspect a long time ago....... "Design work too? That's just drawing pictures and play school stuff for silly money". There's always someone who will think the opposite of what you intend, sometimes just for kicks. Take away that restriction and it makes life a fair bit easier.

[risingson]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1339762959' post='1693898']
But does it really matter?
[/quote]

No, providing you're having a good time. Plus, we're all guilty of undervaluing what we don't understand. The key is to understanding the things we undervalue before we undervalue them.

[AttitudeCastle]

I wrote a paper on this for my school.

It's as when people think of musicians, they think of the bands they like/music they like and for the majority of people those bands (or at least some of them) are famous, and wealthy and earn alot, and are in the public eye, so they draw that as a stereotype/conclusion.

Or at least I feel that's part of it.

As wrong as it is, and the fact it's based on a minority.

[gjones]

I'm always amazed that relatively intelligent people,when asked to pick out instruments on a recording, sometimes can't tell a bass guitar, from a banjo, or a saxophone from a piano . They just know it's music and have no idea where it comes from and have very little understanding that human beings are responsible for the end product coming out of their hi fi or radio. Try it...... ask a non musician friend or relative to name the instruments they can hear on a tune on the radio you'll be amazed at the answers you get.
They also don't understand the time, money, blood, sweat and tears it takes to learn to play an instrument well either, so no wonder they don't value music makers as much as they should.

Edited June 16, 2012 by gjones

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1339811792' post='1694899']
I'm always amazed that relatively intelligent people,when asked to pick out instruments on a recording, sometimes can't tell a bass guitar, from a banjo, or a saxophone from a piano . They just know it's music and have no idea where it comes from and have very little understanding that human beings are responsible for the end product coming out of their hi fi or radio. Try it...... ask a non musician friend or relative to name the instruments they can hear on a tune on the radio you'll be amazed at the answers you get.
[/quote]

When I was a teenager I had no idea what a bass was

[lojo]

Sometimes people can also think more of you also, for example did a parents night fund raiser at my kids school , classic covers, loads of dancing, great night !

Following week, one of the parents asked me about guitar lessons for their daughter, when i said sorry, but I can't read music, have little knowledge of correct methods and approaches, they looked quite puzzled and thought I was trained.

Edited June 16, 2012 by lojo

[Geddys nose]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1339796810' post='1694737']
I think that anyone who has worked hard to become very good at their profession makes what they do look very easy. Be that carpenter, engineer, or musician.

Most people see someone doing something well and it looks easy.

How many people have said to you "I wish I could play an instrument. When I was younger I started to learn ....... but never stuck with it. "

So I think people know it's hard and takes a lot if work but think because they're enjoying listening and dancing then you must be enjoying playing, so why would you want to be paid?
[/quote]



I think this is true about any physical skill, In the middle ages anyone with a skill that took time to learn like carpenter,stone mason ect were at the upper end of the pay scale/society just for the fact that they could do what others could not do. Now it's undervalued having a skill and that includes entertainment.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Geddys nose' timestamp='1339828174' post='1694938']
I think this is true about any physical skill, In the middle ages anyone with a skill that took time to learn like carpenter,stone mason ect were at the upper end of the pay scale/society just for the fact that they could do what others could not do. Now it's undervalued having a skill and that includes entertainment.
[/quote]

I agree about the middle ages skill point, but it doesn't mean such things are [u] undervalued[/u] today. It's more that things have changed such that things like the availability of pre-cut wood or bricks or music has changed, so their value has changed. Value can legitimately change over time, especially when the item in question has no intrinsic value.

[ezbass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1339767962' post='1694040']
I think some of this just comes from a bit of a British mentality to put people down all the time. We can be a very negative race at the best of times and the current economic climate must be making things a lot worse for a lot of people.
[/quote]This, although I reckon we'll take a pop at anyone whatever the climate.

It never ceases to puzzle me that outside of the UK live music seems far more common, especially in North America, and the audiences are far more appreciative. This willingness to put on musical events that the attending folks then really appreciate was really brought home to me some years ago when I was staying in a small remote town/village in the Italian Dolomites. One night a really good U2 tribute band played in the square taking power from an adjacent hostelry. There was no charge, you just rocked up (and pretty much the whole community did) stood and enjoyed. They went down a storm with everyone (including the holidaying Brits in the crowd). I can't help thinking if it had happened here there would've been complaints about the noise, the big gaps when the power failed and pretty much anything else that could be complained about, and this from a nation where we have produced a massive output of popular music. When asked to describe the British character, things like stoicism, the ability to queue and talk about the weather are always mentioned. I reckon our biggest trait is our ability to p*** on others' fireworks and tell them it's raining. A sad state of affairs

EDIT Back on topic, it's not just the ignorance of Joe Average to appreciate what musicians do, even many of our fellow musos fail to realise what their colleagues do. Bassists have been the butt of quite a few jibes from guitar players I've worked with and drummers get lots of stick too (no pun intended). This may sometimes be just in jest, but how often does this come from a "How hard can it be?" attitude?

Edited June 16, 2012 by ezbass

[crez5150]

[ThomBassmonkey]

The one that gets me is "You get paid £50 for a gig? You only play a couple of hours" yes, and the months writing, practicing, recording, promoting, travelling, soundchecking, setting up/down, networking etc etc then we're lucky to get paid at any gigs, I know I rarely do.

[Lozz196]

Exactly. Getting £50 each for a gig, which involves (at least in my covers band) packing car at 5pm, all the loading/setting up/playing/ getting home at 1.30am - well that`s eight and a half hours. Not exactly a huge amount for 8 hours work.

And, as said, that`s just the work for the gig itself, not including the rehearsals and time spent arranging gigs etc.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Lozz196

[Paulgm1]

Agree with some of the other posts where a lot of the problems are in lack of understanding of what's actually involved and how difficult it is for a bunch of people to play well for a couple of hours - we're a misunderstood bunch!
Don't feel too bad though - as well as being an average misunderstood pub band bass player, my day job is working for a bank in the City - that's a job where the general perception is a long way from reality!!

[chris_b]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1339840175' post='1695127']
....I reckon we'll take a pop at anyone whatever the climate....

....It never ceases to puzzle me that outside of the UK live music seems far more common....and the audiences are far more appreciative.....

.... I was staying in a small remote town/village in the Italian Dolomites. One night a really good U2 tribute band played in the square....
[/quote]

Having the media we have doesn't help.

Put Europe on the list of those who appreciate and support live music.

I have played at several of these “town festivals” and they are an amazing experience as a performer. The Italian habit of putting on these events with no regard to the cost is partly why the country is in so much debt. I believe these festivals are a rarity these days. Hang the expense, though, it feels so good to be appreciated.
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