Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340210211' post='1701155'] In theory yes, in practice no. The people who pick up on something on the internet and share it and think it's OMFG this is awsome!!!!! are many, but those who OMFG you are so right!!!!! and reshare only tend to like pap with a massive marketing angle, cute kittens balancing plates, good cleavage, or stuff that's already popular. Even then it's the video getting shared and the music seems to be incidental. There is a massive load of sh*t to wade through before the good stuff hits your search results, and I think people are fatigued with that and prefer the push model, hence the sharing revolution. [/quote] I disagree. The feedback we've had from folk who have discovered us on the interweb bears testament to the fact that the interweb works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 While we're at it, congratulations to the OP Mr Ben Jamin - his first sixteen-page thread, I do believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1340210269' post='1701157'] Different thing him featuring bands - he wasn't responsible for their success/fame; he always did it from the start of his time on air. He championed Roxy Music & Slade in the early 70's too. It helped - but it didn't cause their success. Tho' everyone knows about him & The Undertones. Just sayin'. You can carry right on into Page 16 of "I said, you said" now - [b]not[/b] you personally, just the whole topic. [/quote] I am not saying that Peel was responsible for their success. My band did a peel session but it got us nowhere....what I am saying is that why did the programmers leave the likes of U2/Smiths/Cure/NewOrder to only be played on Peel or Janis Long when a few years later they were all over Steve Wright or Peter Powell? I suspect it's because the programmers had an agenda and were empowered to decide what was 'good' and what was not. And they got it wrong. I imagine that many more artists that only ever got air on Peel or Janis Long would have had just as good a chance of success had it not been for the blinkered programmers at radio one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340209853' post='1701141'] There are plenty of other bands that have been revived due to the internet. We play a lot of the same vanues as many of them. Balaam and the Angel And Also The Trees Alien Sex Fiend are 3 bands from our era that we've found are still working after years of having their material unavailable........ As I said before we are being exposed now to a whole new audience of people who were not even born first time around. Does that not make us more akin to a new band? OK so maybe we play on the legacy a little but in all seriousness it isn't much. Our original record company never spent anything on marketing in the first place. that's probably why so few people have ever heard of us. That and we are sh*te.... The difference between us and a new band is that we have a catalogue of material to market. Recording a catalogue of material is nowhere near as expensive as it used to be. The playing field is far more level with new bands than you are implying. [/quote] Only because nostalgia is so much easier to get hold of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340210389' post='1701160'] I disagree. The feedback we've had from folk who have discovered us on the interweb bears testament to the fact that the interweb works [/quote] But only because they were LOOKING for you! They didn't magically DISCOVER you. Perhaps nostalgia is killing music Edited June 20, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340210713' post='1701168'] While we're at it, congratulations to the OP Mr Ben Jamin - his first sixteen-page thread, I do believe [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340211057' post='1701176'] But only because they were LOOKING for you! They didn't magically DISCOVER you. [/quote] No they weren't. Many, particularly via Last.fm (which we have never sanctioned) just get us played to them because we are 'similar' to what they like to listen to......many had never heard of us before accidentally discovering us by clicking on a youtube vid that was thrust at them while they watched something else or was played to them on some streaming site even reading some of the 'Shouts' on our Last.fm page suggests some folk discovering us for the 1st time [url="http://www.last.fm/music/Sad+Lovers+and+Giants/+shoutbox"]http://www.last.fm/music/Sad+Lovers+and+Giants/+shoutbox[/url] Edited June 20, 2012 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethfriend Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have to be honest I sometimes get sucked into the "new music is worse" trap when I forget to normalise my position for my advancing years. If I was 15 again now I'd probably have a very different view on Radio 1's play list. I do think "people" buy what they are told to buy though, my theory is that if you repeat a sh*t song enough times on a big medium it will find it's way into enough peoples brains that some become acclimatised to it and buy it. This is especially true now because the internet has made thinking for yourself and filtering through the crap that doesn't get any airtime looking for the few good bands a chore - a lot of people are lazy. I actually think that the biggest problem with the current system is that it is still transitioning, the old industry is not yet dead so the benefits of any new system are not fully obvious. Take away all the big labels, money, marketing, commercialisation completely and something will have to fill the void, the real debate should be about how to make the most of that opportunity for the artists when it comes. Unfortunately I reckon it's going to have to get a fair bit worse before it gets better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340211201' post='1701185'] No they weren't. Many, particularly via Last.fm (which we have never sanctioned) just get us played to them because we are 'similar' to what they like to listen to......many had never heard of us before accidentally discovering us by clicking on a youtube vid that was thrust at them while they watched something else or was played to them on some streaming site even reading some of the 'Shouts' on our Last.fm page suggests some folk discovering us for the 1st time [url="http://www.last.fm/music/Sad+Lovers+and+Giants/+shoutbox"]http://www.last.fm/m...iants/+shoutbox[/url] [/quote] Ok, it's the push model again. But I would guess that because you are an established artist with back catalogue people feel it's ok to like you, you have elevated status, you are not like THEM. People need that sh*t. But nevertheless, good response from a few new listeners for you on the shout box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jamin Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340210713' post='1701168'] While we're at it, congratulations to the OP Mr Ben Jamin - his first sixteen-page thread, I do believe [/quote] Why thank-you! Sincerest apologies to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340211897' post='1701194'] Ok, it's the push model again. But I would guess that because you are an established artist with back catalogue people feel it's ok to like you, you have elevated status, you are not like THEM. People need that sh*t. But nevertheless, good response from a few new listeners for you on the shout box. [/quote] Maybe true. A colleague of mine is in a new band (psych rock/stoner/ metal) called Stubb. They have no back catalogue to speak of - just released album #1 - but they are using the interweb to build a followin. successfully and independently - the interweb is the new punk. They get gigs all over europe. Of course they're not making a living at it (yet) and probably never will be but they are still managing to gain exposure and sell records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 tonight Matthew, i shall mainly be illegally downloading U2's entire back catalogue (tax-dodging mf'ers), ..just for the pleasure of bunging it into the recycle bin immediately afterwards. (except the first couple of LP's, which were rather good, back in the day when making music meant more than making money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Ben Jamin' timestamp='1340212791' post='1701211'] Sincerest apologies to all.[/quote] Not required in the least. Good thread once we got past the whole moral thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jamin Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340213325' post='1701222'] Not required in the least. Good thread once we got past the whole moral thing. [/quote] Ahh we got past that? Good stuff! I've only just got home so I'm still catching up from page 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340213325' post='1701222'] Not required in the least. Good thread once we got past the whole moral thing. [/quote] i must admit I've enjoyed it more than any other thread on BC ever.....and now I've got sh*t loads of work that I should've done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340213490' post='1701224'] i must admit I've enjoyed it more than any other thread on BC ever[/quote] Splendid! You're a good egg, Twigman. And if I'm to be entirely honest, I well remember your band from the first time around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340213750' post='1701230'] And if I'm to be entirely honest, I well remember your band from the first time around [/quote] [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340205633' post='1701035'] Even when I worked on a specialist music station and had a commercially neutral playlist meet, we'd listen to the first 30 secs and / or the hook. That's all. [/quote] So did we ever get airtime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340214015' post='1701235'] So did we ever get airtime?[/quote] No - it was a country music station Heeeeeee-haww!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Perhaps it doesn't matter if the music business dies and no more music is ever produced again. Give things another decade, two at the most, and there'll be more video, audio and books online and freely available than anyone could actually watch/listen/read in their entire lifetime. The alternative is that the music business continues to produce absolutely wonderful music, but that no one will live long enough to listen to it all . . . so what's the point? Freely available information changes all sorts of things and we're only seeing the tiniest consequences today. You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340214265' post='1701243'] Perhaps it doesn't matter if the music business dies and no more music is ever produced again. Give things another decade, two at the most, and there'll be more video, audio and books online and freely available than anyone could actually watch/listen/read in their entire lifetime. [/quote] Perhaps the most dispiriting thing for me is that there are not enough mealtimes left in my life to try every recipe from the (not that many) cookbooks on my kitchen shelf. There's another happy thought, eh? [color=#ffffff] [/color] [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited June 20, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340214265' post='1701243'] Perhaps it doesn't matter if the music business dies and no more music is ever produced again. Give things another decade, two at the most, and there'll be more video, audio and books online and freely available than anyone could actually watch/listen/read in their entire lifetime. The alternative is that the music business continues to produce absolutely wonderful music, but that no one will live long enough to listen to it all . . . so what's the point? Freely available information changes all sorts of things and we're only seeing the tiniest consequences today. You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet. [/quote] BBBB Baby, music is very very important to the vast majority of people, but they don't need much of it, or much variety, to be satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340214588' post='1701247'] Perhaps the most dispiriting thing for me is that there are not enough mealtimes left in my life to try every recipe from the (not that many) cookbooks on my kitchen shelf. There's another happy thought, eh? [/quote] Yep. Makes me think I should be spending more time diving in the Maldives than arguing the toss about downloading music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1340212479' post='1701206'] How many Originals bands not making money through recordings are available to be freely downloaded through the normal file sharing channels? There seems to be a line of thought no money from recordings = some file sharing dickwad is costing me money. But if they aren't available to be downloaded then well file sharing isn't hurting them. It could be said that if no one has bothered to put them on some of the file sharing sites then no one is really interested in downloading them. If no one is interested in downloading them for free then surely the amount of people willing to pay is going to be a smaller pool. Therefore they maybe aren't as popular as they think they are and are just looking a scapegoat over why their record isn't making them money. [/quote] Are my posts being translated into Spanish or something? I'm not saying anything about "some file-sharing dickward is costing me money". I'm simply pointing out the simple GENERAL fact that if you wish to attempt to make a living as a musician and the possibility of income from recordings is (hypothetically) denied to you then, if as others have implied / suggested, you have to make a living from live gigs alone, things may become rather more difficult for you. It may be that you would never have made any money from recordings at all, but if you don't have the option of making money from recordings then an avenue of potential income is lost. I'm now going to go away and find out what Soundcloud and Spotify are. Edited June 20, 2012 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wow! Page 17 already! Got to be one of the busiest posts ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340215169' post='1701259'] Yep. Makes me think I should be spending more time diving in the Maldives than arguing the toss about downloading music. [/quote] Actually I think this is a much better idea than that interweb thingy. Which of course is only good for porn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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