Stealing

[Twigman]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1340215429' post='1701262'] if you wish to attempt to make a living as a musician and the possibility of income from recordings is (hypothetically) denied to you then,
[/quote]
How would income from recordings be denied to you?

If someone distributes files for free they expose your work to far more potential customers than you might otherwise have had.
If only 10% of them go on to buy a recording from you then that's income you would never have had in the first place.

It's is free marketing.


There would come a point at which this kind of exposure ceases to be beneficial - when one becomes a household name. Chances are at that point there would be more than enough legitimate income anyway.
Those that then get your stuff for free probably wouldn't have paid for it if the free stuff wasn't available anyway.
So who loses?

[4000]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340215879' post='1701276']
How would income from recordings be denied to you?

If someone distributes files for free they expose your work to far more potential customers than you might otherwise have had.
If only 10% of them go on to buy a recording from you then that's income you would never have had in the first place.

It's is free marketing.


There would come a point at which this kind of exposure ceases to be beneficial - when one becomes a household name. Chances are at that point there would be more than enough legitimate income anyway.
Those that then get your stuff for free probably wouldn't have paid for it if the free stuff wasn't available anyway.
So who loses?
[/quote]

Oh God. I'm getting the impression you're quite literal-minded. Which if so is fine, but it's something I often have difficulty communicating with.

Ok, once again, I was responding to an earlier implication that musicians should give away their music for free. Obviously I don't think that no-one will ever earn music from recordings again.

Or will they?

Right, I'm off back to the Maldives. (Ok, porn ).

[xilddx]

I think this may illustrate that, even on a community like Basschat, people would rather talk than listen to music online, even their fellow BC members' music.

Off Topic - Average about 25 replies per post.

General Discussion - Average about 20 replies per post.

Recording - Average about 5 replies per post.

[Ben Jamin]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340217387' post='1701312']
I think this may illustrate that, even on a community like Basschat, people would rather talk than listen to music online, even their fellow BC members' music.

[/quote]


Note: iTunes people!

[Ben Jamin]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340217387' post='1701312']

Recording - Average about 5 replies per post.
[/quote]

Sorry I think I mis-understood you in my last post - it's a good point - I haven't really looked into any Basschatter's music properly before...

Time to check out this Kit Richardson stuff!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1340217952' post='1701321']
you know you can listen whilst you type.
[/quote]

Actually I can't. I find music far too distracting and I can't concentrate on anything else. I find it very difficult to work in a music filled environment. Music demands that I give it all my attention.

Edited June 20, 2012 by BigRedX

[SteveK]

Would've contributed much sooner to this thread if it were not for the fact that I've just spent 4 hours down t' local nick, trying to explain to plod that the Odeon management had no right to deny me free admission, on account that if I liked Men in Black 3, then, I might buy the box set...I mean, nobody's actually losing out, are they?

What a depressing thread! Thought this was a site for musicians...jeez!

[Marvin]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1340220501' post='1701394']
Would've contributed much sooner to this thread if it were not for the fact that I've just spent 4 hours down t' local nick, trying to explain to plod that the Odeon management had no right to deny me free admission, on account that if I liked Men in Black 3, then, I might buy the box set...I mean, nobody's actually losing out, are they?

What a depressing thread! [b]Thought this was a site for musicians.[/b]..jeez!
[/quote]

That's are rather large leap Steve. Most contributors play once every other month down the Cock in Hand, for which their only payment is a pint of various ales from out of the drip trays. Hence the resistance for paying for music. There are a few almost beens I'll concede.

[4000]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340219542' post='1701367']
Actually I can't. I find music far too distracting and I can't concentrate on anything else. I find it very difficult to work in a music filled environment. Music demands that I give it all my attention.
[/quote]

I'm the same with music and sex. Thankfully I don't have to worry about that much anymore.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Ben Jamin' timestamp='1340218798' post='1701344']

Time to check out this Kit Richardson stuff!
[/quote]

Don't, it'll end up costing you money to buy it, it's a bit good.
(or you could go and download it for free somewhere.... )

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1340223813' post='1701464']
Don't, it'll end up costing you money to buy it, it's a bit good.
(or you could go and download it for free somewhere.... )
[/quote]

[Ben Jamin]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1340223813' post='1701464']
Don't, it'll end up costing you money to buy it, it's a bit good.
(or you could go and download it for free somewhere.... )
[/quote]

Is that an offer? PM incoming!

Nah, it's too late for me I'm afraid, it's a done deal. CD incoming! Mmm legal purchases feel good.

[BigRedX]

You can't really go wrong with the Kit Richardson EP - best band on Basschat along with the Jetsonics IMO!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Ben Jamin' timestamp='1340218798' post='1701344']
Sorry I think I mis-understood you in my last post - it's a good point - I haven't really looked into any Basschatter's music properly before...

Time to check out this Kit Richardson stuff!
[/quote]

You won't be disappointed. It's rare for me to carry on playing new stuff long after getting it; novelty wears off, something else newer replaces it, loads of reasons. But that Kit EP is even as I type lying next to the CD deck, in fact - no, it isn't - it's just the cover - the CD is still IN the deck. It's excellent!

[Ben Jamin]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340225387' post='1701509']
You can't really go wrong with the Kit Richardson EP - best band on Basschat along with the Jetsonics IMO!
[/quote]
[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1340226262' post='1701528']
You won't be disappointed. It's rare for me to carry on playing new stuff long after getting it; novelty wears off, something else newer replaces it, loads of reasons. But that Kit EP is even as I type lying next to the CD deck, in fact - no, it isn't - it's just the cover - the CD is still IN the deck. It's excellent!
[/quote]

Ordered the CD and just put the downloads that came with it on my iPod - great stuff! Haven't come across music this, well, musically interesting and engaging in a long time - best spend of the month so far
Might have to check out these other Basschat bands!

See, legal purchases still work!

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ben Jamin

[BassTractor]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340186973' post='1700521']
there were plenty of people who thought the invention of the wheel was a change for the worse.[/quote]

[b]WAS???[/b] As in that they actually did finish it? I never read that. Holy moses. Then I must admit I stand corrected.

Wheel, eh? Hm. Did they write anything about whether they've found out what to use it for?

Edited June 20, 2012 by BassTractor

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1340229155' post='1701592']
[b]WAS???[/b] As in that they actually did finish it? I never read that. Holy moses. Then I must admit I stand corrected.

Wheel, eh? Hm. Did they write anything about whether they've found out what to use it for?
[/quote]
They may do, if they can work out how to express the concept in cuneiform...

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340180542' post='1700309']
I assume this is aimed at me. I do support bands (more than almost anyone else I know). I don't think "piracy is ok".What I think is: "[b]sometimes[/b] piracy can actually be a good thing for musicians. [b]SOMETIMES[/b]."
[/quote]

It wasn't aimed at anyone specifically and I gave an example of where piracy can help the artist in the post you quoted. As a rule of thumb though, it's a bad thing.

[flyfisher]

Lots of unsigned bands (and some signed ones) have websites where entire songs can be played by simply clicking a link as well as being able to buy the songs on CD or download.

Is it 'stealing' if someone decides to only listen to the songs using the link provided by the artist and not buy the CD?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340262623' post='1701749']
Lots of unsigned bands (and some signed ones) have websites where entire songs can be played by simply clicking a link as well as being able to buy the songs on CD or download.

Is it 'stealing' if someone decides to only listen to the songs using the link provided by the artist and not buy the CD?
[/quote]

No.

Firstly it's the band or record companies choice to allow the songs to be streamed for free. As I've said before in this thread, if you just want to listen to a band there are plenty of places on the internet where you can do this legally. This is one of them.

Secondly, this is internet promotion working properly. Having the songs streamed from the band's website means that people who want to listen to them keep coming back to the site and at the same time get to see news and other information about the band while they are listening. You can listen for free, but at some point the songs will most likely be replaced with newer ones, and every time you listen you are using up your internet connection bandwidth allowance or mobile data plan. Therefore the band will hope that at some point you will find it more convenient to buy the CD or iTunes download.

[EskimoBassist]

Looks like this has already been discussed to death, but to the OP: thanks for directing me to this article, the blog it comes from is well worth a RSS follow.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340263875' post='1701763']
No.

Firstly it's the band or record companies choice to allow the songs to be streamed for free. As I've said before in this thread, if you just want to listen to a band there are plenty of places on the internet where you can do this legally. This is one of them.

Secondly, this is internet promotion working properly. Having the songs streamed from the band's website means that people who want to listen to them keep coming back to the site and at the same time get to see news and other information about the band while they are listening. You can listen for free, but at some point the songs will most likely be replaced with newer ones, and every time you listen you are using up your internet connection bandwidth allowance or mobile data plan. Therefore the band will hope that at some point you will find it more convenient to buy the CD or iTunes download.
[/quote]

All good points.

But, in the days before the internet, how many people would buy CDs listen to them for a week or so and then leave them on the shelf to gather dust for ever more? Skank mentioned this phenomenon somewhere; 25,000 tracks and only 30 of them any good.

Being able to stream songs these days, people can listen to a band completely legally and at no cost for a week or so. If they really, really like them then perhaps they'll buy the CD but - I suspect - in practice, most of the time, the novelty will wear off and they'll just move on without making a purchase. A few streamers will, of course, love the music and buy the CD.

So perhaps the decline in music sales is not so much that people are not buying music they love these days, more that they're not buying music that they don't really like after streaming it a few times.

Edited June 21, 2012 by flyfisher

[xilddx]

[quote name='Ben Jamin' timestamp='1340226874' post='1701536']
Ordered the CD and just put the downloads that came with it on my iPod - great stuff! Haven't come across music this, well, musically interesting and engaging in a long time - best spend of the month so far
Might have to check out these other Basschat bands!

See, legal purchases still work!
[/quote]

Twigman, I take it all back

Seriously, Dave V, BRX, Big Stu, and Ben J, thank you! This is very gratifying indeed I hope you enjoy it Ben, thanks mate

[BigRedX]

In real terms the cost of buying albums is far lower than it was when I bought my first LP back in 1972. Plus with on-line download stores like iTunes you no longer have to buy the tracks on an album that you don't like, so the potential spend is even lower.

I just looked at my iTunes library and there might be a lot of tracks in there but it only works out at one album a week over the last 40 years. Not at all excessive IMO.

In my early record buying days I would often spend all afternoon agonising over which album to buy, and unless it was something that I'd already heard in its entirety at a friend's house the final choice could be influenced as much by the design of the cover as the music contained within.

Later on when I had more disposable income I might have taken a chance on an album based on the one track I'd heard and liked and then discovered that the rest of the CD was rather dull, but I'm sure there are just as many albums I dismissed on the strength of not liking the single that contain songs I would have enjoyed.

I think the problem is that people now simply place less value on recorded music then they used to.

[BottomE]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340268177' post='1701839']

I think the problem is that people now simply place less value on recorded music then they used to.
[/quote]

True that. But so they should.

You did used to get a huge chunk of plastic, 12 inch square full colour printed covers and inserts, photos etc. The album was a real tangible product and you played it on a really expensive stereo. The whole process was different. Now you download a series of 0's and 1's with a filename.