Stealing

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1340358109' post='1703199']
the Verve "Bittersweet Symphony" where I believe someone forgot to clear the Stones sample and they found themselves in a bit of bother[/quote]

That was good, that, when the toad-faced junkie, poseur and professional miserabilist Richard Wossname came unstuck.

One of my happiest dreams was the one where I spent an afternoon stood over him, kicking him in the bollocks.

[Mornats]

If allofmp3.com taught us anything it's that people are more than happy to pay £2-4 for a downloadable album. I bought loads (with the mistaken belief at the time that artists were actually getting something from it) mainly because it was worth it to take a chance on an album that sounded good from a couple of snippets. What did the music industry learn? Nothing. They need to change their business model to take advantage of the Internet and not try and suppress it. But I think I'm going off topic a bit here.

Artists and those involved in producing music DO need to be compensated for it. I just bloody wish they'd get off their arses and do something innovative with the technologies available. The movie and book publishing industries are heading the same way too. In the book publishing industry (which I work in) entrepreneurs are cutting out the publisher, going straight to the agent and striking deals with Amazon and making a decent about of cash. I think I'm straying from the point again (I tend to do that).

Ok, so my point. Rather than introducing innovation and exploring new markets, the record industry is sitting back in yesteryear panicking. Their tactic is to use bully-boy tactics of suing their fans and customers and spending untold amounts of money on politicians to change laws in their favour. All this serves to do is make piracy a more attractive option. It instils the "screwing the corporation" ethos into people. It helps no artist or record label in the slightest. They need to change and do business in a way that makes it pretty pointless to download music for free. I really wish I knew what that way was.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340387927' post='1703974']
That was good, that, when the toad-faced junkie, poseur and professional miserabilist Richard Wossname came unstuck.

One of my happiest dreams was the one where I spent an afternoon stood over him, kicking him in the bollocks.
[/quote]

he also came a tad unstuck when returning home after The Verve's first tour. He hadn't paid the rent while away so the landlord locked him out of his flat.

True story that.

[Mornats]

May I try and clear up one of the points here (and really, I'm being pedantic). Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing. It's copyright infringement. Which is a totally different crime altogether.

See UK law: [url="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60"]http://www.legislati...k/ukpga/1968/60[/url]

[quote[size=3]][color=black][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Basic definition of theft.[/font][/color][/size]
[right][size=3](1)[/size][/right]
[size=3]A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.[/size]
[right][size=3][color=black][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif](2)[/font][/color][/size][/right]
[size=3][color=black][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit.[/font][/color][/size]


[right][size=3][color=black][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif](3)[/font][/color][/size][/right]

[size=3][color=black][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]The five following sections of this Act shall have effect as regards the interpretation and operation of this section (and, except as otherwise provided by this Act, shall apply only for purposes of this section).[/font][/color][/size][/quote]

[size=3]"[color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif][b]with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it[/b]" is the key bit. *Edit* to make the quote legible.[/font][/color][/size]

Edited June 22, 2012 by Mornats

[SteveK]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340364886' post='1703331']
and a third:

3. Is illegal distribution really really such a bad thing or an opportunity for free marketing?
[/quote]
[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1340377719' post='1703734']
Good question, and I think the answer depends on who you ask!
[/quote]Yeah...good question!
If you ask those that care about music, make a living from music or involved with music in any serious way, they would most likely tell you it's a 'bad thing'.
Ask those individuals that jump at the chance of getting something for nothing, then I'll wager, you will most likely get a different response.

As for [i]'an opportunity for free marketing?'[/i] who exactly are you to decide how a band should be marketed?

If a band wants 'an opportunity for free marketing?' then it should be their decision.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340356259' post='1703156']
Yes, it is wider than music but it's not always stealing. There is a large and growing 'open source' movement in the software world and there is loads of 'freeware' out there. Similarly, there are loads of bands that allow their music to be freely streamed and some even give away their music. Heck, a lot of bands play for free and, as we have discussed, some even pay for the privilege.

Such things might undermine the market for selling such things, but that's life. It's hardly reasonable to make it illegal to give away music [u][b]with the copyright holders permission[/b][/u], is it?
[/quote]With a slight adjustment, I would agree with your post. As I said, it should be the artists/copyright holder's decision.

[discreet]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1340391468' post='1704043']
What do you suggest to stop it? Laws that allow the Govt to snoop on every bit of Data that goes into peoples homes over the internet?[/quote]

Heh heh, that's the idea. Bastards.

[Musky]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1340205133' post='1701017']
I'm actually very interested in this question. There was a lot of suggestion that the Arctic Monkeys owed more to major labels than they did the internet.

Personally I have heard a hell of a lot of new bands through Spotify and friends, and I can only assume these bands would not have come to my attention if it weren't for the internet. Perhaps the majority of "airtime" on spotify is taken up by major label acts though - I don't know, it'd be very interesting to see the relevant statistics.
[/quote]
The Arctics owe less to majors (Domino is independent) than to Bad Moon PR, who were on board with the band early on. Very early.

Of course Bad Moon deny that they had much of a hand in the bands success, and the Myspace page which generated so much interest - and column inches - was neither theirs nor the bands doing, but the work of a fan. Which was quite fortuitous, as the fan managed to write (in the first person) a stream of consciousness style missive that screamed 'creative person at work' squarely at an aspirational teenage audience. And on the right kind of timescale to promote their first self produced single. Lucky.

Once Domino was on board, the story changed from one of 'yet another band you've never heard of' (which isn't actually a story for anyone other than the NME and overlooked threads
on specialist music boards) to a technological/cultural one which would garner mainstream interest. On the back of that interest, dial in masses of radio airplay, but without any product available. Result - single straight in at No. 1.

Actually a lot of the early discussion of the Arctics happened on the Libertines forum. The guy who did a lot of the photography/video for them, as well as hosting the promos the band was giving away, was quite active on that.

There's probably a lesson in marketing for us all there, even if that lesson is 'don't do it the same as all the others'. Marketing on the internet maybe cheap, but good marketing rarely is.