LukeFRC Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340292357' post='1702427'] You didn't find the mid sweep useful? [u]Not many amps offer something like it.[/u] My gripe with the J-Retro is that it colours the sound even when you set it "flat". Flat does not really exist with that preamp (but it does with others), and I really like a passive Jazz sound. But even then, I love the oomph and versatility it gives me. But I could use just the mid sweep module and be happy, to be perfectly honest. I use that a lot. [/quote] Eden, SWR, Thunderfunk do, on multiple bands. Isn't the Yamaha East Eq modual essentially a mid sweep too? The mixing desk I use has two, fully sweepable with varying Q too [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340292709' post='1702429'] I just think that sometimes people don't fully think through the reasons for fitting (or not) a pre amp in their bass. I would hazard that unless the controls on your amp are very subtle or the EQ points aren't sympathetic to the bass (in which case you've either got the wrong amp or the wrong bass for you) that the amp should be able to do everything that built in pre amp can and then some. It's far easier to build an effective and musical sounding EQ when you're not constrained with having to fit it into a typical bass guitar and power for a decent length of time off a PP3 battery. [/quote] +1 but I do think you often overestimate people's ability to make gear sound good. I think sometimes you hear the idea of the sound realised but wonder how musically that has been achieved. It's fairly easy to suck the life out of bass tone with Eq. I have another question for you but it's pretty OT so will PM you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Main advantage of an (EDIT) ONBOARD (/EDIT) preamp IMO is that it provides consistency of tone with different lengths and types of guitar cable, by buffering the pickups to give a low impedance output. Cable capacitance can shift the resonant peak, which plays a big part in a pickup's character, by quite a lot. Use a long twisty versus short straight cable and you'll really hear it. The Audere unit seems to offer great flexibility here not only with the z mode impedence switching but also, what's more overlooked, by allowing you to alter capacitance loading on the pickups so you can shift the peak to where you like it best and keep it there. Edited June 21, 2012 by LawrenceH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340292709' post='1702429'] I just think that sometimes people don't fully think through the reasons for fitting (or not) a pre amp in their bass. I would hazard that unless the controls on your amp are very subtle or the EQ points aren't sympathetic to the bass (in which case you've either got the wrong amp or the wrong bass for you) that the amp should be able to do everything that built in pre amp can and then some. It's far easier to build an effective and musical sounding EQ when you're not constrained with having to fit it into a typical bass guitar and power for a decent length of time off a PP3 battery. [/quote] Reasonable points. But that's how you roll. There are many ways to make a stew, and if the final result is tasty, it's all good. Unlike you I don't think that any piece of equipment *should* be able to do anything in particular, and just try and see. I personally use the amp to give me a "basic sound", generally. Then use the preamp (sometimes) onboard to go for something thicker for a particular song, or part of it, and something treblier there, etc. Generally I don't really fiddle with the onboard too much, but I get the sound I'm after with it, and no, I don't get it from an amp. I could probably get something with my amp (4 semiparametric controls), but that's a lot more fiddly than using my onboard, which I can in addition adjust wherever I am (I don't necessarily spend all my time one foot away from the amp). If I have one bass that is in teh ball park but I miss certain something... and I know that preamp X allows me to tune in to that "something" easily, why would I look for another bass? Do I really have the "wrong" bass? I already have what I need within my reach... I could continue searching for that holy grial of bass, but... I'd rather slap that preamp in it and spend my time playing I do not object to any preferences... whatever you prefer is fine. I like some passive basses, some active, oranges and strawberries and detest cucumbers... What I object to is the idea that any particular option is unnecessary (or even wrong) by default. I agree that many preamps, especially but not only the most inexpensive ones are pretty lame. I know, I tried them all! And I agree that many people slap one of those in their bass without a clear reason other than "because I can". I know, I have done that a few times. It never really hurt 'though. Sometimes there was nothing there for me. Sometimes it was quite interesting. Let people get the sound they want through any means they want. Some are bass+amp guys (and girls). Some love a big pedalboard and a 17-band semiparametric with multiple LFO onboard preamp/synth. If we want the "pure" sound of an electric bass, we'd put a microphone and play it unplugged... We want a sound in our heads. Get it in any way you can, even if you already know that you will never get there and you will always look for yet soemthing else. Especially if you read BassChat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1340293339' post='1702450'] Eden, SWR, Thunderfunk do, on multiple bands. Isn't the Yamaha East Eq modual essentially a mid sweep too? The mixing desk I use has two, fully sweepable with varying Q too +1 but I do think you often overestimate people's ability to make gear sound good. I think sometimes you hear the idea of the sound realised but wonder how musically that has been achieved. It's fairly easy to suck the life out of bass tone with Eq. I have another question for you but it's pretty OT so will PM you. [/quote] You quoted a few. You still missed more. Yet there are a WHOLE LOT MORE out there without it. Do you really need me to show you a catalog or something? The Yamaha NE-1 preamp is nice, but not quite a mid sweep. It's cut only, from what I recall (I owned one). Changing the Q and freq parameters you get really nice sounds. But it's nothing like a straight cut/boost midsweep, which is (to me) totally intuitive and direct to use. And, at my fingertips, woohoo! :-D BUt yes... all the controls in the world do not guarante a good sound, and people sometimes destroy bass and guitar through overuse of EQ. Those graphic equalisers on those amps (Trace Elliot, Peaveys...) that you often find in rehearsal spaces tell some amazing stories, when you walk in and find what the previous band was using My routine upon arrival is turn master volume down (often left high), set EQ flat, turn on, then adjust gain... and cut or boost a *bit* to get in the ball park of that "basic" sound I hear in my head with my bass controls set flat. It varies in different rooms, or course. Then adjust my onboard one to give it that personality I like about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340297044' post='1702528'] Those graphic equalisers on those amps (Trace Elliot, Peaveys...) that you often find in rehearsal spaces tell some amazing stories, when you walk in and find what the previous band was using [/quote] YES! Pre-shape/contour buttons pressed in then graphics at smiley face, and lows boosted, all at once with a crazy dose of compression to boot so the signal is getting utterly mutilated...add in a sub-octaver if it's an Ashdown for the icing on the cake. I think we must've used the same rehearsal spaces, but it's not me who leaves the amps set up like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I could see the appeal of an onboard pre-amp for players who need a specific EQ voicing to get their sound (as opposed to the usual tweaks for room acoustics etc), as it would enable them to apply that EQ right at the start of the signal chain even when running a DI straight from the bass. Although I imagine this could be a sound guys worst nightmare if not used with some restraint. There is also the risk of plugging an inherently mid scooped preamp into an amp which already has a similar voicing built in and ending up with that rumbly yet clacky mush we hear all too often! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I use the same spaces too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 As another Edinburgh bassist, I can only say "Wasnae me!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 So come on, own up, who is it in Edinburgh that hates all mid frequencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1340297750' post='1702542'] YES! Pre-shape/contour buttons pressed in then graphics at smiley face, and lows boosted, all at once with a crazy dose of compression to boot so the signal is getting utterly mutilated...add in a sub-octaver if it's an Ashdown for the icing on the cake. I think we must've used the same rehearsal spaces, but it's not me who leaves the amps set up like that [/quote] Probably the very same spaces, indeed. But I think we could be in different towns and have the same experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1340299271' post='1702575'] So come on, own up, who is it in Edinburgh that hates all mid frequencies? [/quote] LukeFRC is quiet now. I bet it is him!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1340293339' post='1702450'] I have another question for you but it's pretty OT so will PM you. [/quote] Fire away without fear edit: but I must say, just in case, that I am already spoken for Edited June 21, 2012 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340301943' post='1702643'] Fire away without fear edit: but I must say, just in case, that I am already spoken for [/quote] it was for big red X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340292357' post='1702427'] You didn't find the mid sweep useful? Not many amps offer something like it. My gripe with the J-Retro is that it colours the sound even when you set it "flat". Flat does not really exist with that preamp (but it does with others), and I really like a passive Jazz sound. But even then, I love the oomph and versatility it gives me. But I could use just the mid sweep module and be happy, to be perfectly honest. I use that a lot. [/quote] Interestingly I recently bought an Ashdown MiBass which has the same feature (I think they call it semi parametric), where the knob picks the frequency you want and the slider boosts or cuts it, just like the j retro mid control but for all frequencies not just mid. It's a brilliant little amp and allows to get just about any sound you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have a passive jazz bass and went through this same dilema - I opted in the end for the J-Retro by John East and have been really happy with it as for me it just makes a good bass sound even better. I don't agree that changing pick ups is a better first start option as that really is going to alter the fundamental sound that your bass produces. I personally like the tone of my 70's pick ups but needed a hotter signal with more bass boost to make the switch from my Stingrays or GB easier as before I was having to re-set the EQ on the amp and adjust some of my pedals too. The Sadowsky is a great pedal and sounds awesome but fiddling around on the floor is a bit of a fag - I have kept mine on my board to give a slight boost when slapping but I could just as easily do this on the bass with the pre-amp. The J-retro is great on a vintage bass because it does not need any mods or altering so you can go back to original with no problems, only down side is that you have to change the original knobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SisterAbdullahX Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 This would be my choice.... http://ews-us.com/item_triLogic2.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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