Marketing Ploys ... Do you fall for them?

[BassPimp66]

The quest for the perfect sound is endless...
But, I feel marketing is sometimes a lot of b*******.What do you think of the below?
- True Bypass = big switch that goes click, how difficult is that?
- Oxygen Free Copper cable = overpriced cable with no proven benefit
- Vintage Tone Circuit = could not be bothered to design something new, so I stole schematics from old Fender stuff
- High Mass Bridge = a little thicker and less flimsy than average bridge
- Phenolic Fingerboard = plasticky fingerboard
- Made in USA = so what ????
- [s]High excursion speakers = isn't it the speaker job to excursiate big time?[/s][color=#0000cd] OK "high excursion" is actually value add.[/color]

etc... Feel free to add.

Edited June 26, 2012 by BassPimp66

[Cameronj279]

I can't fall for them, even if I wanted to I have no money.

Your move marketing departments.

[plunkrock]

I'm waiting for HD basses to come out.

Fender Jazz HD - buy now and get a HD audio cable half price at £80

Then maybe 3D, 3D basses are ok at gigs but I wouldn't have one in the home.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1340454642' post='1704632']
- High excursion speakers = isn't it the speaker job to excursiate big time?
[/quote]

The sound of them failing to excurt is important to some tones. And plenty of stuff doesn't have high excursion speakers, so it tells you they might actually handle some power. Much more useful thing than watt ratings.

'Handwired' is one, things can still be wired craply by hand.

Also 'point to point' and 'true point to point', firstly, no it isn't, and secondly, actually being point to point is a terrible way to make something. It has got so silly that someone will point to a massive green pcb in the middle of an amp and declare it to still be 'true point to point'.

[skankdelvar]

Oh, bogus claims.

I saw 'Marketing Ploys' and immediately thought of stuff like this:



Me, I'm a total sucker for it.

[discreet]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1340454642' post='1704632']
- True Bypass = big switch that goes click, how difficult is that?
- Oxygen Free Copper cable = overpriced cable with no proven benefit
- Vintage Tone Circuit = could not be bothered to design something new, so I stole schematics from old Fender stuff
- High Mass Bridge = a little thicker and less flimsy than average bridge
- Phenolic Fingerboard = plasticky fingerboard
- Made in USA = so what ????
- High excursion speakers = isn't it the speaker job to excursiate big time?[/quote]

All tummy rubbish, except for the last - driver excursion (xmax), is vitally important imho.
When deciding on a driver for my BFM J12, I went for a Kappalite mainly because of its xmax rating.

Edited June 23, 2012 by discreet

[LukeFRC]

and add to that...

special edition with matching headstock
AAAAAAAA grade quilted maple
the idea that a 2mm laminate of some wood will make a massive difference over another 2mm laminate.
vintage capacitors
go faster stripes
etc
etc

[flyfisher]

Well, we all say these sort of things, but there must be enough people out there to fall for marketing ploys otherwise why would they do it. It's a bit like those enticing letters from pleasant African fellows who somehow have a mountain of money they wish to share with you.

Anway, isn't there an old marketing saying along the lines of "50% of all advertising is a pure waste of time and money. The problem is that nobody knows which 50%".

[chris_b]

This has very little to do with marketing and seems to be more to do with the OP wanting to have a rant.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340457400' post='1704698']
Anway, isn't there an old marketing saying along the lines of "50% of all advertising is a pure waste of time and money. The problem is that nobody knows which 50%".
[/quote]

Lord Leverhulme, IIRC, bitching about how much his ad budget cost. Chap that owned Lever Bros. Lux, Lifebuoy soap etc.

Marketing? Thing is, you're a manufacturer and you're sat there with - say - a jackplug and you think "What can I say about this, it's only a jackplug". Well, what do you do?

You hire some little advertising squit in a trendy t-shirt and he goes away and he comes back with some boards and whips the cover off and it's a picture of the jackplug and a slogan that says:

"It's only a jackplug. But it'll get you laid."

Huzzah! Trebles all round!

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited June 23, 2012 by skankdelvar

[steve-soar]

Warwicks marketing is world class. On a par with BMW. And their endorsee list is the envy of most bass manufacturers.
All they need is Vic Wooten, (they have Reggie) and that would be that. I reckon it's only a matter of time.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1340459368' post='1704731']
Lord Leverhulme, IIRC, bitching about how much his ad budget cost. Chap that owned Lever Bros Lux, Lifebuoy soap etc.

Marketing? Thing is, you're a manufacturer and you're sat there with - say - a jackplug and you think "Well, what can I say about this, it's only a f**king plug". Well, what do you do?

You hire some little advertising squit in a trendy t-shirt and he goes away and he comes back with some boards and whips the cover off and it's a picture of the jackplug and a slogan that says:

"It's only a f**king jackplug. But it'll get you laid."

Huzzah! Trebles all round!
[/quote]Lordy, from my neck of the woods. My best friends brother-in-law was the late Lord Leverhulme's body guard/ driver.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1340459373' post='1704732']
Warwicks marketing is world class. On a par with BMW. And their endorsee list is the envy of most bass manufacturers.
All they need is Vic Wooten, (they have Reggie) and that would be that. I reckon it's only a matter of time.
[/quote]

But does world class marketing make for world class products?

I'd be more impressed by endorsees if they didn't get any perks and spend their own money buying the product they're endorsing. After all, we all the endorse the stuff we buy, don't we? Pay people enough and they'll say anything - ads are full of examples and it all means diddly-squat really.

[BassPimp66]

I find Warwick marketing actually pretty factual compared to some other brands. Nothing wrong with them.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1340459694' post='1704740']
After all, we all the endorse the stuff we buy, don't we? [/quote]

Not BC's very own Dr Dave. He turns his supermarket carrier bags inside out to thwart the endorsement process.

As for world-class marketing, the musical instrument sector is eons behind everyone else. Positively Victorian with its pictures of 'Happy Users' and wild claims about 'features'. Everybody else is all about 'lifestyle' and psychographics and tangential approaches. Product hardly comes into it.

Somewhere like Tescos or Ford, there's a whole marketing [i]skyscraper[/i] full of eager beavers singing the company song and working 24/7. Over at - say - Gibson there's probably some old boy named Morty, with a comb-over and a shirt pocket with biros in it. Fourpence to spend on ads, has a nap in the afternoon, that sort of thing.
[color=#ffffff].
.[/color]

Edited June 23, 2012 by skankdelvar

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1340456892' post='1704688']
Funnily enough I was looking through Ebay yesterday seen this poster for sale.


[/quote]

is that one of the original Jackson Bollocks ?

i could always splash some paint over it, if not.

Edited June 23, 2012 by phil.i.stein

[JimBobTTD]

True bypass is removing as much stuff out of the signal path when the effect is off as possible. I wouldn't call it marketing bollocks and it is way more than a big switch. Perhaps some reading up about what it is would be a good idea.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1340461775' post='1704779']
True bypass is removing as much stuff out of the signal path when the effect is off as possible. I wouldn't call it marketing bollocks and it is way more than a big switch. Perhaps some reading up about what it is would be a good idea.
[/quote]

In practice they mean a constantly changing impedance load on your pickups, which changes the sound coming from them. Buffered bypass is superior for consistent sound and to avoid the switching noise: http://www.tech21nyc.com/technotes/index.html

[phil.i.stein]

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1340463399' post='1704809']


In practice they mean a constantly changing impedance load on your pickups, which changes the sound coming from them. Buffered bypass is superior for consistent sound and to avoid the switching noise: http://www.tech21nyc.com/technotes/index.html
[/quote]

Link above is from a company which makes pedals. Not really unbiased stuff.

Whether true bypass is something you want is another discussion; it is a real thing and not simply a large switch or marketing bollocks.

Yes, it changes your pickups' impedance which, in turn, changes the sound coming from them. That is also why people buy pedals!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1340465571' post='1704843']
Link above is from a company which makes pedals. Not really unbiased stuff.

Whether true bypass is something you want is another discussion; it is a real thing and not simply a large switch or marketing bollocks.

Yes, it changes your pickups' impedance which, in turn, changes the sound coming from them. That is also why people buy pedals!
[/quote]

It all checks out, the only thing it justifies is an engineering decision that produces a cost to the company. Its the best explanation I have found to link to on the subject. The idea that true bypass preserves tone is the bollocks bit, because it doesn't.

[BassPimp66]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1340466103' post='1704853']
It all checks out, the only thing it justifies is an engineering decision that produces a cost to the company. Its the best explanation I have found to link to on the subject. The idea that true bypass preserves tone is the bollocks bit, because it doesn't.
[/quote]

OK, got it!
You put a big switch versus a buffer. It's cheaper. So, you tell everybody it sounds better. How did I fall for that???

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1340466409' post='1704862']
OK, got it!
You put a big switch versus a buffer. It's cheaper. So, you tell everybody it sounds better. How did I fall for that???
[/quote]

That is basically it, although the buffer needs to be done well to work properly. The thing that got people into the habit of believing it was explained in the link, the early wah pedals caused a lot of tone problems due to simple switching, switching them to true bypass did improve matters, the assumption that the same would be applicable to other things was the mistake.

[heminder]

last i checked mechanical switches (especially heavy duty stomp switches) were a lot more expensive than jellybean electronics components. that's a reason we don't see mechanical switches on everyday consumer electronics.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='heminder' timestamp='1340468070' post='1704909']
last i checked mechanical switches (especially heavy duty stomp switches) were a lot more expensive than jellybean electronics components. that's a reason we don't see mechanical switches on everyday consumer electronics.
[/quote]

Still need a heavy duty stomp switch for buffered bypass, since it still needs a switch that is stomped. Plenty of mechanical switches in my household electronics, like all the power on and light switches.