Quiet EVO ABM300

[essexbasscat]

HI all

Picked up an Ashdown EVO II ABM300 head from a local bod a while ago. His whole rig had been well looked after and from the amp's appearance, it's no exception. The guy said he hadn't pushed the rig and after meeting him (he's a vicar and a sincere person), I believe him.

Thing is, when paired with one GS112 cab, I struggle to get sufficient volume. It's got to the point that I use an EBS Microbass in line with the bass itself to raise the input gain in an effort to bump up the volume.
My 50's / 60's / 70's band isn't that loud, as our key feature is the vocals. It can drive for sure, but I wouldn't describe us as loud compared to other bands that acknowledge themselves as being loud.

There are several factors at play here. The GS112 isn't the loudest of cabs out there, but it certainly delivers when it's paired with my Peavey MK IV head (300W), with tons of power to spare (it's usually not turned up more than 3 and has never been beyond 4).

My Roadworn Precision has a rather weak pickup. That said, I'm sure the microbass will compensate well until I can replace the pickup. When using the Peavey head, I don't use the microbass at all, as there's easily more than enough volume.

Question is, is the ABM300 II a quiet head ? I'm considering taking it to an engineer to get it checked out, but I'd appreciate your collective opinions, as I've no prior experience of this amp.


Thanks for reading, all help's appreciated

[pietruszka]

Ask the Vicar, has he had the same experience? Are you able to try the head through a different cab to see if it makes any difference?

I know from experience, just based on sound alone and not volume, I couldn't get anything decent out of any Ampeg heads, yet Aguilar were completely different. Back to volume, my AG500 SC seems louder than the pro series heads Ampeg do. Different strokes and that.




Dan.

[RandomBass]

you say you are having to boost the signal to the input? Where is the needle on the meter when you play?

[franzbassist]

I had an ABM300 for a while and it was a cracking little amp. [u]Plenty[/u] loud enough for the bands I was playing in at the time, neither of which were exactly shy on the volume front.

Important to eliminate as many potential problems as possible before you take it to a tech so, as RandomBass said, where's the input needle getting to when you play? Any chance you have the input switch set to active instead of passive?

Failing all the abve, some folks say that certain amp/cab combinations just don't work well, so perhaps this is one!

Cheers

Gareth

[essexbasscat]

Thanks for the replies guys

Alternative cabs - I do have a recently acquired Berg AE112 which I haven't tried yet. This could be an interesting experiment. The vicar said he had more than enough power, but he was running it through a Peavey 2 x 15 cab at 4 ohms, so he got the max from the amp at that load.

The input needle isn't moving very much at all, so I'm wondering if this is part of the problem ? I'm told there is one valve on the input side, so I'm wondering if this may need attention ?

Walbassist - thanks for the post, it's good to hear that someone has found these amps to be loud enough, it's reassuring to know there is a potential way forward here. What cab(s) were you using ?
Input switch ? lost me there. I've checked the amp and can't find anything like a switch. I do use the high input though, not the low.

Thanks again all

[Ed_S]

I had an ABM500 that I thought was very quiet. I was running it with matching ABM cabs and everybody tells me that unless it was broken or I just didn't know how to use it (neither of which I'm buying) it should have been knocking down walls. It really wasn't, even going full tilt. I've generally found that the cheaper MAGs seem more 'lively' for less wattage.. so maybe it's an EQ thing?

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1340530748' post='1705577']
I had an ABM500 that I thought was very quiet. I was running it with matching ABM cabs and everybody tells me that unless it was broken or I just didn't know how to use it (neither of which I'm buying) it should have been knocking down walls. It really wasn't, even going full tilt. I've generally found that the cheaper MAGs seem more 'lively' for less wattage.. so maybe it's an EQ thing?
[/quote]

This is confusing, yet representative of other things I've heard around here. Are Ashdown heads known to be inconsistent with power delivery ?

[0175westwood29]

Id try plugging into the low input, im guessing the high will be doing a 15db cut like an active input would? Probs why the needle not moving.

Ive not had an ashdown but made this mistake on a old trace elliot amp and couldnt work out why i had to crank everything to be heard! Then next practice plugged in to the passive input and was so loud i nearly crapped myself!!

Andy

[RandomBass]

That needle needs to be heading up towards the red, even entering into the red briefly on loudest notes. Check you have the Passive/Active button set correctly: out for passive, pushed in for active. Boosting EQ (my faves are the 180 and 340Hz sliders, with a tad Bass knob boost too) will push the needle even more. Unless you are getting a healthy signal on the VU, you wont be pushing the power amp with a strong enough signal to get the most out of it.

My ABM500 is extremely loud, with an incredible amout of grunt there. It handles any gig I do with a single 15" cab (a Compact). I had a MAG600 before (which I miss, mainly because of it's EQ frequencies) and that was equally as loud. They have the same 575W output stage, only the preamp and facilities are different.

Let us know what knob & slider settings you are using....

Cheers

Geoff

[RandomBass]

Silly me, its an earlier EVO, and doesnt have a Active pad switch. Try both inputs - use whichever gives the most level. It should be the High input (Ashdown mean this as High gain, not high level output from bass, which always seems a bit arse about face to me)

Cheers


Geoff

[Doctor J]

I have a first series ABM 300w and it is most definitely not a quiet amp.

First things first, you need to get the needle moving. If you're not getting the needle moving that means you're sending very little to the power amp, so this is where your problem is. Use the high input for passive basses - the one on the left. Even on my weakest output passive bass, I don't need to go any higher than about 3 O'Clock on the input gain to get the needle bouncing. If this isn't the case for you then you're never going to get any serious volume out of it. Try raising the pickups on your bass a little closer to the strings to see if that gives you more. If that doesn't work then try a different lead. Also, if you can, try a different bass with it too, just to compare outputs. In my experience, you need to get the needle going into the red with your loudest notes to really get the best out of that amp.

Another thing to consider, once you've got that sorted, is the ohm rating of your cab. The ABM will give you 300W into 4 ohms. If your cab is 8 ohms then you're not getting the full 300W of output.

[such]

+1 to what the guys above have said about the gain/needle thing. Also, different amps have different ways of delivering power via the master volume potentiometer. If I'd have a choice between an amp that [i]"I never go past 10 0'clock"[/i] and an amp that [i]"I never go past 2 o'clock"[/i], I would choose the latter anytime. It still gives me more power that I need and more usable (and precisely adjustable) range.

Edited June 24, 2012 by such

[essexbasscat]

Thanks for all the constructive and thoughtful replies all.
I've said it before, but it's worth repeating that BC is such a valuable resource. Without it, I would struggle to get the experience offered here.

To work;

- it's reassuring to hear support for the opinion that these amps are loud. It's good to know I was on the right track when I bought this amp in the first place, as I'd heard previous good things about it 'round 'ere.

- I did consider the high / low input issue on first discovery of the poor volume delivery. I did try both and the low input definately produced a quieter output than the high input. On this basis, I've used the high input ever since, which is the one to the furthest left of the amp face.

- I run the amp with the EQ flat. Loading up the lower end tended to make it too boomy for the kind of music my band plays. As it is, there's a nice solid platform for the band's overall sound to sit on, which suits the vocals and overall mix nicely.
I know the nature of this thread has been a bit on the negative side about this amp, but the quality of sound it delivers is a pleasant change to the Peavey MK IV.

- I've checked the back of the amp to confirm the details. This amp spec is 300w at 8 ohms and 600w at 4ohms. My GS112 is an 8ohms cab, so it's 300 watts max. Anyone know of a 4ohms single 12" cab that goes significantly above 300 watts ?

- I've no reason to suspect the integrity of the output from the bass, or the lead. They've performed faithfully in a consistent manner for several years.


Given the comments about the meter, I'm going to connect up the rig at home (with the output turned down) to witness the behaviour of the meter needle under a range of conditions. I'll also test with an active bass or two. Once this is done, I'll report back.


Thanks again all

[RandomBass]

Thanks for this. One thing - it says 300w into 8 ohms and 600w into 4 ohms on the back? Does it possibly say 300W RMS, 600W Peak? I'm not doubting you, but based on my experience of owning several Ashdown amps this is what they normally have printed near the speaker outputs.

If it is 300W RMS and 600W peak, then into an 8 Ohm cab you are probably getting just less than 200W max. These things don't actually halve their output into 8 Ohms, but that's a design thing. I consider it to be a flaw: if it's designed properly, it should double the output power as the load impedance halves, but limits on current supply and the associated PSU design affect this. Sorry, that's off topic and no help whatsoever.

My ABM500 says 500W RMS, 1000W Peak on the back. Even though Ashdown state it has a 575W output stage - they've always been a bit random with their specs in my view. My MAG600 said 600W RMS, 1200W peak, even though it had the same 575W output stage.

Have I confused things? Probably. Sorry. Just curious about the power ratings you mentioned.

Cheers

Geoff

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1340538631' post='1705721']

Thanks for this. One thing - it says 300w into 8 ohms and 600w into 4 ohms on the back? Does it possibly say 300W RMS, 600W Peak? I'm not doubting you, but based on my experience of owning several Ashdown amps this is what they normally have printed near the speaker outputs. If it is 300W RMS and 600W peak, then into an 8 Ohm cab you are probably getting just less than 200W max. These things don't actually halve their output into 8 Ohms, but that's a design thing. I consider it to be a flaw: if it's designed properly, it should double the output power as the load impedance halves, but limits on current supply and the associated PSU design affect this. Sorry, that's off topic and no help whatsoever. My ABM500 says 500W RMS, 1000W Peak on the back. Even though Ashdown state it has a 575W output stage - they've always been a bit random with their specs in my view. My MAG600 said 600W RMS, 1200W peak, even though it had the same 575W output stage. Have I confused things? Probably. Sorry. Just curious about the power ratings you mentioned. Cheers Geoff [/quote]

Good points and well taken RB. Just checked the back of the amp to be certain and it is in fact 300W RMS and 600W peak, not 300W at 8ohms as I stated earlier - banana skin there. Near the two outputs it does say Min. load = 4ohms.

Testing done. With the roadworn precision, the input gain has to be approx. 95% up to get the meter needle bouncing into the red with the low E + A. The D + G won't send it into the red. The roadworn Jazz takes around 90% to get the low E + a pushing the needle into red.

Surely it's not healthy for the amp to drive the input stage so hard ?

An active Warwick Rockbass Corvette sends the needle into the red zone at around 50% of input gain through the high input. Switching to low input socket and a bit more on the gain makes the needle react a bit slower without excessive peaking.

Surely Ashdown (or any other manufacturer come to that) wouldn't make an amp that would only work well with high output pickups ?

Edited June 24, 2012 by essexbasscat

[stingrayPete1977]

I had one for years and like the others say you need that needle jumping!

I changed the input valve a few times over the years on mine when this problem happened, also just a good dust out and clean with servisol appears to give loads more volume? no idea why but trust me pop a new valve in and clean all the muck out by spraying it right into the pots while turning them and it will give much more sound and be like a church mouse even with the gain up when your not playing

[franzbassist]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1340540190' post='1705750']An active Warwick Rockbass Corvette sends the needle into the red zone at around 50% of input gain through the high input. Switching to low input socket and a bit more on the gain makes the needle react a bit slower without excessive peaking.[/quote]

And is this a giggable volume?

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1340540312' post='1705754']


And is this a giggable volume?
[/quote]

Good question, which I don't know the answer to at this point, as I checked the needle activity with the output gain down. Can't do any more at this point, due to neighbourly considerations.

[RandomBass]

Just concentrating on the original 'quiet' issue, with the needle moving up near, or into, the red zone - are you getting a lot more volume output through your cab? If you are, then it sounds like we are on the right track here.

In my experience, Ashdown build a lot of headroom into their preamp stages (except the MiBass which needs some redesign in my view), meaning it takes a lot to get into the red. You will find that boosting EQ will help with the input a lot, notably the Bass knob and the first 2 sliders. If you don't want to do this, and stay flat, then by all means use as much of the gain as you need. Yes, it does feel a little odd that having to use 95% of the input to get a strong output - but that's their design.

And yes, the E and A strings will push the needle much more than the D and G. There's more energy there and its just physics, or something mystical like that.

So, are you now getting a decent output with the needle moving much more?

Geoff

[RandomBass]

Oops posted my last reply about a nano second after your reply re the output volume lol. Look forward to your feedback on this...

Cheers

Geoff

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1340540299' post='1705752']
I had one for years and like the others say you need that needle jumping!

I changed the input valve a few times over the years on mine when this problem happened, also just a good dust out and clean with servisol appears to give loads more volume? no idea why but trust me pop a new valve in and clean all the muck out by spraying it right into the pots while turning them and it will give much more sound and be like a church mouse even with the gain up when your not playing
[/quote]

Thanks Pete, good to hear from you. I havn't tried this one yet, maybe this is what it needs ? Havn't done my own amp servicing up to now, so this could be a another new experience

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1340541174' post='1705769']
Just concentrating on the original 'quiet' issue, with the needle moving up near, or into, the red zone - are you getting a lot more volume output through your cab? If you are, then it sounds like we are on the right track here.

In my experience, Ashdown build a lot of headroom into their preamp stages (except the MiBass which needs some redesign in my view), meaning it takes a lot to get into the red. You will find that boosting EQ will help with the input a lot, notably the Bass knob and the first 2 sliders. If you don't want to do this, and stay flat, then by all means use as much of the gain as you need. Yes, it does feel a little odd that having to use 95% of the input to get a strong output - but that's their design.

And yes, the E and A strings will push the needle much more than the D and G. There's more energy there and its just physics, or something mystical like that.

So, are you now getting a decent output with the needle moving much more?

Geoff
[/quote]

Thanks for all your thoughts here Geoff, hope to return the favour one day. This needle activity topic does make me wonder if it can be used to balance string output across the bass.

I'll report back about the output volume when I get a chance.

Cheers

T

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1340541286' post='1705772']
Thanks Pete, good to hear from you. I havn't tried this one yet, maybe this is what it needs ? Havn't done my own amp servicing up to now, so this could be a another new experience
[/quote]

Its very easy on these amps, Im no expert, just extract the tray by removing the 4 bolts under the plastic covers then if your not sure dont touch anything! The valve is obvious so that can be pulled out and a new one pushed in, then I used to sit it on something like a crate with a towel underneath then spray the servisol (maplins a few pound) into the back of the EQ sliders, pots, all the jack sockets etc and switch, push, turn slide everything as you do. Spray the servisol everywhere then carefully stand the amp chassis so as the excess can drain away, leave it until its all dry maybe overnight to be on the safe side then put it all back together and enjoy! If your happy to then you can carefully unplug and re plug any connectors that you can see so as to clean the contacts, Oh and dont forget to get all the crap out of the cooling fan blades!

Good quality leads also made a big improvement to the low end but I guess you already use them?

Edited June 24, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[stingrayPete1977]

Oh and BTW you might not even need a valve, trust me I have done this on my old evo many times even though I looked after it, It always improved things

[gjones]

Remember to push the EQ button in to activate the EQ and if you want a flat sound and just a volume boost from the EQ then just push all the frequency faders up together. Your amp will be a lot louder anf the VU meter will be up to the red. I had a similiar problem with my ABM 500 playing with a very loud band and this did the trick.

Edited June 24, 2012 by gjones