lee650 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) Hi everyone Thinking of replacing the valve in my EBS td650, mine was before the groove tubes, i have been looking at the Groove tubes 12ax7 m but there are a lot of bad reviews online(and they are always sold out!! ) im not bothered about loads of gain as i dont really use the valve overdrive( well just occasionally) i mostly like a clean/bright sound and use the valve to warm up the sound a little and give it some body. If anyones made any valve mods to their EBS heads id love to hear your opinions. Thanks very much- LEE Edited April 22, 2008 by lee650 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whynot Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I had a Td650 a while back and replaced the original valve with a Groove Tubes, purchased direct from Bernie Goodfellow the EBS distributor. I rarely used the valve setting but when switched in it was an obvious improvement over the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee650 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Thanks for that! Just found an old thread on here, with a lot of valve comparisons, that was really interesting, thanks for your reply ill give bernie a ring, i used to have an swr bass 350 that had a groove tube in it and it sounded great so ill prob go that route. Cheers-LEE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hey Lee. If you're talking one valve (12ax7 / ECC83) in the preamp I have to confess that from experience there is sometimes not a huge amount of difference in the tone between valves. The EBS may be different but I've had 4 valve fronted amps and I bought a whole selection of tubes at one point (sorry they've all gone) to try in the front end and the difference was negligeable! I had H&K, Groove Tubes, Rubies, EH, Mullard etc and even though I tried all of them in all of the different amps over the course of a couple of years they didn't make enough difference for me to justify one over the other. I'm not saying that would be the case in all amps or that valve amps wouldn't be affected to a greater degree by the choice of preamp valve(s) but in the case of a single valve in the front end of a basically solid state amp I didn't notice any massive difference. I could be wrong (step in and correct me techies) but I have a feeling that many of these valve fronted amps actually don't send 100% of the signal through the valve, which could account for the lack of obvious difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='185106' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:51 AM']Hey Lee. If you're talking one valve (12ax7 / ECC83) in the preamp I have to confess that from experience there is sometimes not a huge amount of difference in the tone between valves. The EBS may be different but I've had 4 valve fronted amps and I bought a whole selection of tubes at one point (sorry they've all gone) to try in the front end and the difference was negligeable! I had H&K, Groove Tubes, Rubies, EH, Mullard etc and even though I tried all of them in all of the different amps over the course of a couple of years they didn't make enough difference for me to justify one over the other. I'm not saying that would be the case in all amps or that valve amps wouldn't be affected to a greater degree by the choice of preamp valve(s) but in the case of a single valve in the front end of a basically solid state amp I didn't notice any massive difference. I could be wrong (step in and correct me techies) but I have a feeling that many of these valve fronted amps actually don't send 100% of the signal through the valve, which could account for the lack of obvious difference [/quote] i'm pretty sure the signal does go through the valves since it is a valve pre amp unless the circuit shorts really badly i don't see how they would and why you'd go to the effort to make the signal not pass through them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whynot Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I noticed an obvious difference when changing to the Groove Tubes but possibly the original valve was so knackered that was the reason. Either way the Groove Tubes sounded fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 [quote name='umph' post='185180' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:21 AM']i'm pretty sure the signal does go through the valves since it is a valve pre amp unless the circuit shorts really badly i don't see how they would and why you'd go to the effort to make the signal not pass through them[/quote] Sorry, I may not have explained very well, I'm not saying the signal doesn't go through the valve but on certain amps this isn't always the case. When I was looking into this some years ago there were certain amps that split the signal and ran it parallel; one going through the valve the other going to the next stage (EQ), don't ask me why but I'm sure there was a techie reason why this was good practice! IIRC this was also supported by the fact that certain amps have a bleed control that alters how much of the signal goes through the valve. Again IIRC when these were first 'fashionable' there was discussion in Bass Player magazine about how much of any given signal was actually running through the valve and the effect that it had on tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Lee, I've just got a replacement pre-amp valve for a my amp (which I bought from warwickhunt as it goes but it's not an EBS) and I got a JJ/Tesla ECC83S. There's quite a few valve reviews on the web and it does seem that the GrooveTubes get variable reviews. I felt the pre-amp could have done with a little more gain so that it could be overdriven a bit more when required and that valve (the "S" version) has a bit more gain than the standard ECC83/12AX7. When run clean it's also very good. It does sound a bit better than the original - it has a bit of a stronger bottom end. I also bought the "cryo" version. It was a bit more money at about £12 but they supposedly last longer and are more consistent between individual valves. www.watfordvalves.com specialise in them and delivery was pretty prompt. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee650 Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hi everyone Thanks for your replies, my EBS can actually run as solid state as well, so not sure if the valve is in the pre amp as such but can be switched in and out as required, which you couldnt do with my old SWR, i do like a bit of valvey goodness though as it adds a bit of life and warmth to the sound(especially to the EBS which is very clean) i do fancy the groove tubes though i let you all know if it makes a difference (especially to my cloth ears ha ha ). Thanks again guys-LEE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumour6 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Hi there, had a TD650 fro a while..changed the tube for a NOS Mullard...circuit didn't like it... I'd go with Bernie's (Goodfellow) suggetsions. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Have you looked on the Watford valves site? They've got just about everything, including cryogenic treated valves which apparently sound amazing. Does anyone know what happened to the sticky that compared different valves? It seems a shame its not on here anymore seeing that someone put a lot of time into it. Good luck in your search for perfect valve tone. Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee650 Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hi everyone Ive looked on the watford valves site, but to be honest they might as well be speaking in japenese, lots of nice little glass things which can transform a sound, but i must admit ive used hybrid amps for a while now, but never really delved too much into what makes valves tick. i did replace a groove tubes in my old SWR head for a mesa boogie one and i must admit i did notice a slight change, (a bit thinner sounding IMO) but nothing drastic, i do think its more important in all valve heads(which ive never tried, but im very curious ) very interested to hear about the NOS mullard not getting on with the EBS, as ive been reading lots of positive reviews of these( but not the price )but it doesnt surprise me. Will def call bernie goodfellow though as he's the authority on the EBS stuff, and im sure he'll stear me in the right direction, im always on the lookout, to slightly improve my tone (should really just work on my playing ha ha ) thanks again guys for your replies most appreciated- LEE Have you looked on the Watford valves site? They've got just about everything, including cryogenic treated valves which apparently sound amazing. Does anyone know what happened to the sticky that compared different valves? It seems a shame its not on here anymore seeing that someone put a lot of time into it. Good luck in your search for perfect valve tone. Cheers Just [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I think the lack of agreement on what valves work is best is partly due to the great variation between individual valves of even the same type. Apparently the manufacturing process is prone to quite a bit of variation. Then there's the amps they're used in and personal preference. Watford valves test their valves to try to achieve some sort of consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hmm, i'd love to hear what results you have when you pick a tube. I have the fafner and need to replace the valve! Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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