highwayone Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hi, just bought an Ibanez Srx430 new and the intonation is not great. Looked at a few sites, some say you'll never get perfect intonation on a stringed instrument others say you can! Some say to tune the open string to the 12th fret and others say to tune the 12th fret to the harmonic on the 12th?!? I've tried all ways but can't seem to get the bas*$€^d right!!! Is it possible to get the intonation bang on or only on megabucks basses? And if so how? Your expertise is welcomed as ever! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 How old are the strings? Old strings (especially those worn by fret contact) can be very difficult to intonate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 tune the harmonic, then the 12th, and adjust the saddle accordingly, rinse and repeat. 'tis true, perfect intonation on a stringed instrument is impossible. Every time you press the string down the length is affected due to the bending of the string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Re-reading your post - are you just having difficulty in getting the note at the 12th fret and the harmonic in the same position to match? Or are you talking about the fact that fretted notes are not always perfectly in tune? If it's the second, as lettsguitars says, with a standard fretting system you're fighting a loosing battle. Either go fretless or have a look at [url=http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?go=0&sgo=0]True Temperamant[/url]. Edited June 24, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayone Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 The bass is brand new from Rattle and Drum in Derby so the strings are also new. I checked the intonation and the fretted 12th was very flat compared to the harmonic and after adjusting quite a bit it was hardly any better. I'm a newbie to bass so wasn't sure how much i could adjust the saddles before I bugger them up as the spring over the screw is starting to bend quite a bit already!! I have one bass that's spot on but my fender precision won't get quite perfect either. Will I damage the spring if i keep adjusting the saddle?? Thanks for the info guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 When you turn the screw make sure the saddle is actually moving, sometimes it doesn't and needs a little gentle persuasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 How is the action set - what gap is there between the 12th fret & the underside of the strings? The higher the action, the more the string has to move, from open/harmonic to fretted, the more tension is changed & the more difficult it is to set the intonation. Also make sure you're not pressing the string 'behind the fret' as you might when playing, just the most gentle touch to hold the string directly onto the fret is all you need. Also - what tuner are you using? Apologies if you know all this already, I'm guessing not? Cheerz, john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayone Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1340562386' post='1706291'] How is the action set - what gap is there between the 12th fret & the underside of the strings? The higher the action, the more the string has to move, from open/harmonic to fretted, the more tension is changed & the more difficult it is to set the intonation. Also make sure you're not pressing the string 'behind the fret' as you might when playing, just the most gentle touch to hold the string directly onto the fret is all you need. Also - what tuner are you using? Apologies if you know all this already, I'm guessing not? Cheerz, john [/quote] The action is quite low(about 4-5mm) the tuner is a korg pitchblack. I suppose it's all about practising! Never attempted it before as I'm a ex drummer!! So all of the advice received is great, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBones Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I was always told to fret the string behind the twelfth fret as the harmonic doesn't take into account the distance the string moves when pressed down resulting in the note going sharp. Just my twopence worth, just done mine with peterson isostrobe App and the fretted, open and harmonic are all spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='highwayone' timestamp='1340562857' post='1706297'] The action is quite low(about 4-5mm) the tuner is a korg pitchblack. I suppose it's all about practising! Never attempted it before as I'm a ex drummer!! So all of the advice received is great, thanks. [/quote] I'd say 4-5mm at the 12th is quite high & you're going to struggle getting it right with that much movement, depending how you play of course, I use fingers 99% of the time & a very gentle touch or so I'm told & like about 1.5mm at the 12th. How's the rest of the neck? Have you adjusted the truss rod? A good set up involves balancing everything. Korg tuner is fine & [s] very[/s] extremely accurate so maybe you're worrying too much? I'd say get it as close as you can within reason then PLAY! If you find you're going up the fretboard & it's not sounding 'right' then have another look at things. Cheerz, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1340560300' post='1706252'] When you turn the screw make sure the saddle is actually moving, sometimes it doesn't and needs a little gentle persuasion. [/quote] +1 The screw might be moving but the tension of the string could be stopping the saddle from moving. Sometime you can move it with your fingers, other times you just need to detune it a bit and it'll move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='highwayone' timestamp='1340559652' post='1706237'] The bass is brand new from Rattle and Drum in Derby so the strings are also new. I checked the intonation and the fretted 12th was very flat compared to the harmonic and after adjusting quite a bit it was hardly any better. I'm a newbie to bass so wasn't sure how much i could adjust the saddles before I bugger them up as the spring over the screw is starting to bend quite a bit already!! I have one bass that's spot on but my fender precision won't get quite perfect either. Will I damage the spring if i keep adjusting the saddle?? Thanks for the info guys. [/quote] Erm, if the fretted note is flat you should be moving the saddle forward!!!, which on most bridges means letting the spring expand more!. If the spring is bending because you're compressing it then it sounds like you're moving it the wrong way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='TonyBones' timestamp='1340562964' post='1706301'] I was always told to fret the string behind the twelfth fret as the harmonic doesn't take into account the distance the string moves when pressed down resulting in the note going sharp. Just my twopence worth, just done mine with peterson isostrobe App and the fretted, open and harmonic are all spot on. [/quote] Surely that's the whole point of an adjustable bridge, so you can compensate for the fact that you are also effectively bending the note by the string to fret clearance when you fret it. The harmonic is not affected and gives you the true octave of the open string, fretting at the twelfth will give you a sharp note, so you wind the saddle back to bring that note to the same as the harmonic. It's only ever an approximation however You can get the open string and the twelfth fret spot on, but other frets will be out by a small amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Remember to detune the string you are adjusting the intonation on, to ensure that the saddle has room to move. You sometime have to move the saddle quite a distance. Really the shop should have sorted this for you before they sold it to you. Edited June 24, 2012 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBones Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1340565345' post='1706351'] Surely that's the whole point of an adjustable bridge, so you can compensate for the fact that you are also effectively bending the note by the string to fret clearance when you fret it. The harmonic is not affected and gives you the true octave of the open string, fretting at the twelfth will give you a sharp note, so you wind the saddle back to bring that note to the same as the harmonic. It's only ever an approximation however You can get the open string and the twelfth fret spot on, but other frets will be out by a small amount. [/quote] So like i said fret behind the twelfth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='TonyBones' timestamp='1340568052' post='1706418'] So like i said fret behind the twelfth [/quote] My apologies, I didn't quite see what you were saying in your original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 [quote name='highwayone' timestamp='1340562857' post='1706297'] The action is quite low(about 4-5mm) the tuner is a korg pitchblack. I suppose it's all about practising! Never attempted it before as I'm a ex drummer!! So all of the advice received is great, thanks. [/quote] That's pretty high action even by my standards and I have a high action compared with other people here. The higher the action the more you have to compensate for the stretching of the string when fretting a note. I'd start by getting the action down to 2-3mm and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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