neck shimming

[KennysFord]

hey all.
could anyone tell me if adding a 4mm maple shim under a maple jazz bass neck will affect the sustain.
thanks in advance

[ped]

On paper yes it might well do - but if your shim covers the gap nicely (lots of surface contact) then I doubt you will notice anything. I used a playing card on an OLP musicman and it was great.

[BigRedX]

Is that 4mm length or 4mm height?

You'd be surprised about how little thickness you need to make a big difference by the time the strings reach the bridge.

For big adjustments try a piece of coarse sandpaper half the length of the neck pocket. For smaller changes I find the piece of clear acetate from a TI string packet ideal.

[KennysFord]

cheers guys.
ive got a guy from denmark complaining that i sold him a bass with a thicker than stock bridge but didnt state the neck was shimmed and its affecting the sustain.I thought that if anything the sustain was better.It filled the neck pocket exactly and i was sure that it wouldnt be a problem but alas.

EDIT: it was 4mm thick.

here's the email he sent me,
note that he's an attorney at law,
i feel a "monster cables" type headache coming on

Hi
I got the bass yesterday, on April the 22nd. I paid you via PayPal on April the 9th. I paid you hours after buying it incl. the shipping fee you told me (actually 5p too much)

Problem:
In your description of the bass, you say:

Its a string thru design which allows both thru body stringing for more sustain or standard thru bridge stringing.The rear of the body has the ferrules fitted and a jolly nice job they made of it too.The bass is in excellent condition although from the pictures you can see the screw holes for the ashtrays,both of which will be shipped with bass.

I upgraded the bridge to a beefier item but as a result the rear ashtray no longer fits,however a simple retro fit back to a stock F****r bridge will reacomodate the pup cover.

BUT NOTHING about the fact, that you have fitted a wooden plate between neck and body (not to be seen on the photos).

This change gives the bass less sustain.

Suggestions?

Jørn Wistesen Andersen
Attorney at Law


- wistesen

Edited April 23, 2008 by kennyrodg

[ped]

I wonder if he 'noticed' the 'lack of sustain' before or after he saw the shim? He probably saw it and has decided to try and get some sort of compo.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='ped' post='184003' date='Apr 23 2008, 06:39 PM']I wonder if he 'noticed' the 'lack of sustain' before or after he saw the shim? He probably saw it and has decided to try and get some sort of compo.[/quote]

Even so... but with a 4mm shim I would start asking questions about what I had just bought...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='finnbass' post='184016' date='Apr 23 2008, 06:54 PM']Purely IMO, 4mm is not a 'shim', it's a block.

A playing card or piece of acetate, as cited above, might constitute a shim.[/quote]

Exactly.

[KennysFord]

a playing card or piece of acetate wouldnt have done it.the bridge in question was 3.5 mm thicker than the one that came with the bass so i figured thats how much higher the neck needed to be.

[The Burpster]

In my experience neck shimming makes little if no difference to sustain if done properly... Sounds to me the whole neck has been 'raised' and not what we know and love as shimming.

How do you tell if its done properly when so many different resources give differing advice....?

Tell him to pay for the shipping back and you'll give him a refund for what he paid originally sending it to him.
Or better still if he knows anything about basses he should be able to shim it properly himself why is he causing a fuss?!

Sounds like he's trying it on--- and does he think mentioning he's a lawyer makes any difference?

[The Burpster]

[quote name='kennyrodg' post='184023' date='Apr 23 2008, 07:03 PM']a playing card or piece of acetate wouldnt have done it.the bridge in question was 3.5 mm thicker than the one that came with the bass so i figured thats how much higher the neck needed to be.[/quote]

Yes it would, you only put it at the body end of the neck socket creating an angle between neck and body that changes the realationship of the neck to the body....

if he knows anything about basses he would know this!

Cant remember if your new bass ( ) is shimmed now or was before but it certainly has been !

made no difference!

[Jono Bolton]

Is he trying to say that the the bass has less sustain than the bass would have had with the stock bridge? New chunky bridge + thru body stringing = increased sustain, so is the guy claiming that this 4mm block has counteracted all of that? Or is he saying that it sustains less than it should do? Either way, the block would decrease sustain, it means there's less space for the neck and the body to make contact and resonate against each other.

[Count Bassy]

It sound to me like you put the 'shim' across the whole of the pocket, thereby moving the whole neck 4mmm forward, without changing the angle.

My understanding was that you'd normally put a much shallower shim in, but only at one end of the pocket, thereby altering the angle of the neck rather than moving the whole thing forward. If you do this then the effective shift at the bridge is given by the (thickness of the shim) x (the distance from the pocket to the bridge) / (length of the pocket), hence shims are generally much less than 4mm.

Then again, I have been wrong before.

Clive

[ped]

Sounds right to me too Clive

[Mr. Foxen]

If you put in a block under the whole neck pocket, then the contact area should be sthe same as before, which would make no noticeable difference in sustain. In addition, many stock basses will come with a shim in anyway. Get some numbers on how much sustain it has with and without the shim.

[KennysFord]

its sold as a "badass type" bridge.it was cast alli and loads better than the stamped steel one that came on the bass.I felt the bass mad more tone with the new bridge compared to the old one. Had i a bit more experience i should have altered the angle of the neck but my thoughts were that would reduce the contact area.hay ho.

[bnt]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='184029' date='Apr 23 2008, 07:14 PM']My understanding was that you'd normally put a much shallower shim in, but only at one end of the pocket, thereby altering the angle of the neck rather than moving the whole thing forward.[/quote]
That's what I've done with the Tune, using Gaffa tape layers to build up a wedge. It's about 1mm at the thickest, but has a dramatic effect on the neck angle. For a permanent fix. however, I'd prefer a 5mm block, or (even better) to recess the bridge.

[The Burpster]

Just found this which I've PMd to KR and is actaully quite a good read.. nothng left unsaid in this!

[url="http://www.articlekarma.com/Article/Understanding-The-Purpose-Of-The-Guitar-Neck-Shim/8660"]http://www.articlekarma.com/Article/Unders...-Neck-Shim/8660[/url]

[BigRedX]

You would have probably found that a single piece of course sandpaper in the bridge-most quarter of the neck pocket would have changed the angle enough to have given you 3.5mm increased height at the bridge.

[KennysFord]

a lesson learned me thinks.
thanks all. :ph34r:

[Muppet]

He asks for suggestions.

Send him the original (or an original bridge) and tell him to fit it and remove the shim.

[Buzz]

So, wait hold on. Clarification of facts needed

[b]It's not a shim, just a plate covering the entire pocket?[/b]

If it is just a plate, then it wouldn't effect sustain as it'll still be making 100% contact.

Tell him that fitting the new bridge required you to raise the neck to [b]keep the angles all the same[/b] and therefore keep a good setup, whereas [b]a shim would ALTER the angle[/b] of the neck, and possibly have less contact, as well altering the required setup.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Buzz

[gafbass02]

shims still confuse me, even after the article, does anyone have pics of shims in place as examples of different placements and their effects?
(In slow typing in big letters using small words!)

[Muppet]

[quote name='Buzz' post='184226' date='Apr 23 2008, 11:58 PM']If it is just a plate, then it wouldn't effect sustain as it'll still be making 100% contact.[/quote]


I disagree slightly. The neck will be 4mm higher in the pocket so the contact patch around the edges of the neck will be less and it will stand more proud of the body. Don't know if this wil affect sustain, but I would imagine that if the neck is less snug in the pocket then it would.

[BOD2]

Of course the (as yet unmentioned) advantage of fitting a proper shim that changes the neck angle (as opposed to a "plate" that raises the whole neck) is that no one can see the damn thing unless they take off the neck !

I'm sure many people would be very surprised with what they might find in the neck pocket of their wonderfully sustaining bass if they removed the neck (i.e. fag packet bits, old business cards etc. etc.).

[BigRedX]

[quote name='gafbass02' post='184278' date='Apr 24 2008, 08:09 AM']shims still confuse me, even after the article, does anyone have pics of shims in place as examples of different placements and their effects?
(In slow typing in big letters using small words!)[/quote]

This any use?