Mr Fretbuzz Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Ive heard that you ought to hold the neck like a guitarist between the knuckle and first joint on the first finger. I'm finding that difficult, also my first finger is flying off the fingerboard when I'm going for the fourth stretch and at the same time my thumb points down the neck at the headstock......so I'm not holding it like that. Does that matter much as long as you hit the note on time as a newbie? What's the correct holding playing position guys. I know that the thumb is to be on the back of the neck and should be pointing upwards I've heard between the first and second finger, but heard again between the second and third which is much harder. I know also that the first note should be held down but that finger just flies off :-(. I've seen guys go over the top with their thumb as well.... I'm not sure if these guys trained first as guitarists...... I don't like the look of it, it doesn't seem right.....?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 As far as the thumb is concerned there is no "should", i.e. let it go where it feels natural to do so. Placing the thumb behind the ring, or even the index finger, narrows the carpel tunnel through which the tendons go. This can cause problems over time. Below are two clips, one deals with safe L/H technique ( addresses the "thumb pointing towards the headstock" issue too). The other video clip deals specifically with the thumb. Hope they help. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM-rkoy2H8I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM-rkoy2H8I[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You know, I've never took much notice of how my thumb sits. It moves about depending on what notes I'm playing, but tends to mainly be rested horizontally on the apex of the neck. Just flicked through those vids above & glad to see I'm doing things the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyfish Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 It is a gray area, and like most of the techniques in bass playing, I think the technique that feels most comfortable and is able to give you what you need (e.g. being able to play fast/slow etc) is the one you need to find. My personal experience was always thumb over the top in most cases, unless playing higher notes. I've since been taught by a very competent bass teacher to fully relax the thumb and try playing the notes on the neck without applying any pressure with the thumb. I was taught a technique where you sort of pull from the shoulder and hit the notes that way, giving you more freedom to move up and down the neck. It also leaves the wrist fully relaxed and hanging while playing sitting down and standing up. I've also found, since doing it, that the neck barely moves as well which really helps as you always know where the notes are going to be. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 i think this can come down to what your playing.. for something very easy i wouldnt keep the finger for every fret finger position.. finger/hand position is all about economics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='ChristopherGilbert' timestamp='1341132318' post='1714028'] It is a gray area, and like most of the techniques in bass playing, I think the technique that feels most comfortable and is able to give you what you need (e.g. being able to play fast/slow etc) is the one you need to find. [/quote] +10000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='ChristopherGilbert' timestamp='1341132318' post='1714028'] It is a gray area, and like most of the techniques in bass playing, I think the technique that feels most comfortable and is able to give you what you need (e.g. being able to play fast/slow etc) is the one you need to find. My personal experience was always thumb over the top in most cases, unless playing higher notes. I've since been taught by a very competent bass teacher to fully relax the thumb and try playing the notes on the neck without applying any pressure with the thumb. I was taught a technique where you sort of pull from the shoulder and hit the notes that way, giving you more freedom to move up and down the neck. It also leaves the wrist fully relaxed and hanging while playing sitting down and standing up. I've also found, since doing it, that the neck barely moves as well which really helps as you always know where the notes are going to be. Hope this helps. [/quote]sorry Chris i have to respectfully disagree with your first comment.... i have a theory that most things that are good never come easy... a good left hand technique or finger/hand position is not necessarily right for the body... and going for the most comfortable position is not always the right way... falling in to that trap can lead to lazy techniques imo... sounds very strict but music accommodates music not the body.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1341133590' post='1714042'] sorry Chris i have to respectfully disagree with your first comment.... i have a theory that most things that are good never come easy... a good left hand technique or finger/hand position is not necessarily right for the body... and going for the most comfortable position is not always the right way... falling in to that trap can lead to lazy techniques imo... sounds very strict but music accommodates music not the body.. [/quote] Agreed. With the left hand you want the thumb in the middle of the neck, pointing towards the headstock. It allows maximum comfort and movement. Really a good left hand technique should mean that you can use your left hand without your thumb touching any part on the neck. I've seen it many times where people have a weaker sound or restrict the articulation possibilities by having a poor position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Ace thanks.... I'm going leave my thumb do what it wants which is usually in the relaxed position pointing up the neck, but try and keep the first note pressed down and no fly off it on the stretch in a see saw type of way.....Gee twenty quid yesterday for an hour of depression :-(. It's been a crap week of practice :-( Good vids thanks :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 The easiest way to get your left hand in the correct position is to start without a guitar. Relax your hand and arm while imagining a guitar neck cupped there. Move your arm up and down and you'll feel your wrist 'pulling' if you go too low. Try 'hooking' your thumb and you'll find your fingers become more tense as they are pulled into a 'claw'. What you're after is a height and position where your arm, wrist and fingers are as pressure free as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Personally, I always think that good left hand technique is with the thumb in about the middle of the neck pointing upwards (perpendicular to the neck), with the wrist dropped down which allows more accurate and comfortable fingering. Your hand should be as relaxed as possible too. Any contact with the palm of your hand should be minimal, maybe only when your reaching for the E or B string perhaps. This relaxed style with just the thumb and fingertips in contact with the bass not only helps to reduce tension and stress in the fingers, hand, wrist and forearm, but also allows much more accurate and dexterous playing, with minimum effort. It can feel a bit unnatural at first, especially if you already have bad habits, but after a little practice the benefits can really be felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just had an hour with Mr Ace..... My technique isn't as bad as I was told yesterday ...... All is good again in my own little Bass World :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1341137540' post='1714104'] The easiest way to get your left hand in the correct position is to start without a guitar. Relax your hand and arm while imagining a guitar neck cupped there. Move your arm up and down and you'll feel your wrist 'pulling' if you go too low. Try 'hooking' your thumb and you'll find your fingers become more tense as they are pulled into a 'claw'. What you're after is a height and position where your arm, wrist and fingers are as pressure free as possible. [/quote] Sounds like you're having a chugg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyfish Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1341133590' post='1714042'] sorry Chris i have to respectfully disagree with your first comment.... i have a theory that most things that are good never come easy... a good left hand technique or finger/hand position is not necessarily right for the body... and going for the most comfortable position is not always the right way... falling in to that trap can lead to lazy techniques imo... sounds very strict but music accommodates music not the body.. [/quote] I understand your point, but i've never thought about it that way. I don't really know about other players, but i'm in the category where as long as I can play the notes I need to (and get a good sound while doing so) i'll always pick the most conservative/lazy technique I can. Especially with 5 strings and small hands. I know it does differ for some people though. I know a lot of bass players and guitar players will also tell you that to fret a note, you only need so much pressure, and overexerting the pressure on each note will just make your hands more tired when they don't need to be. One of my favourite bass players, John Myung, is often seen using a vicious left hand technique that makes my hands tired just looking at it. But then you look at someone like Brian Bromberg who promotes a 'naturally hanging' right hand technique when slapping, but also carries this over to his left hand technique and if you look at any video of him jamming or anything, he makes it look effortless. If the problem for Mr Fretbuzz is fingers flying off when fretting other notes, then my advice is relaxation and to slow down. I still have problems with my little finger flying off and then being too far away when I need to do fast runs, but through a lot of concentration and watching myself, I managed to get it under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='ChristopherGilbert' timestamp='1341150946' post='1714314'] If the problem for Mr Fretbuzz is fingers flying off when fretting other notes, then my advice is relaxation and to slow down. [/quote] I agree. This is a different issue altogether from the thumb one. The way to tackle this as stated above is to place the fingers very slowly and deliberatly onto then off of the frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 ...I'll try shifting about a bit too to make it easier and try and avoid some 4 fret stretches at the top of the neck...... but also try and hold down notes as well as I'm aware of it...... been reading the muting thread, I've tried it a little with my lefty but usually I'm just too busy trying to hit the notes ...... I use the rest stroke finger style though which helps.... What I'm definitely not going to do is to hold the neck on my first finger unless I'm on frets 1-3 ish...... think I'll avoid the thumb over the top too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1341161584' post='1714521'] ...I'll try shifting about a bit too to make it easier and try and avoid some 4 fret stretches at the top of the neck...... but also try and hold down notes as well as I'm aware of it...... been reading the muting thread, I've tried it a little with my lefty but usually I'm just too busy trying to hit the notes ...... I use the rest stroke finger style though which helps.... What I'm definitely not going to do is to hold the neck on my first finger unless I'm on frets 1-3 ish...... think I'll avoid the thumb over the top too [/quote] Here is another video clip that might be of help. It is basic L/H technique, and concentrates on fingering. You are right IMO to concentrate first on getting a good clear note. The muting technique can come later. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks for that..interesting that the guy doesn't go for the stretch at the top of the neck.....:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 [quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1341203895' post='1715039'] interesting that the guy doesn't go for the stretch at the top of the neck.....:-) [/quote] That's true, he does not. However, about three quarters the way through the clip, he shows you how to use the thumb as a pivot, instead of stretching the fingers. IMO, this is the method to use on the lower frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Sitting here reading this with the little finger of my left hand aching from practice yesterday, I have to say there are some really good posts here in this old thread. I've had 2 teachers, each in their 20-30s telling me, a 54 year old, I need to use 1 finger per fret even on the bottom 5 frets. I say, yes this is something to work towards, but not a big issue. Last night I just over-did it. Reading this it's good to have the confirmation that I've been right all along; do what you can. If you CAN easily stretch to cover F-A on the E string then I salute you, but doing it with a small movement in the left hand is not the end of the world. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza 2905 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1389689801' post='2336861'] If you CAN easily stretch to cover F-A on the E string then I salute you, but doing it with a small movement in the left hand is not the end of the world.[/quote] Totally agree. I used to worry about this when I started playing, even believing that my hands were too small for bass, but when I stopped trying to rigidly adhere to one-finger-per-fret fingering and used a bit of thumb pivoting down at the lower end of the neck, I overcame the problem. On the broader subject of comfort; whilst there's a lot to be said for finding a playing position that is comfortable; if you are self taught you are more likely to have picked up some bad habits that will limit your progress in the long run. Anyone who picks up a golf club for the first time, for example, and just starts swinging, rarely grips the club correctly. As others have rightly pointed out, avoid hooking the thumb over the neck if you can, and try to play with the tips of the fingers. And relax, - that's very important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1341160578' post='1714504'] I agree. This is a different issue altogether from the thumb one. The way to tackle this as stated above is to place the fingers very slowly and deliberatly onto then off of the frets. [/quote] Flying fingers is a sure sign of tension Read. "Serious electric bass" for exercises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1389715243' post='2337150'] Flying fingers is a sure sign of tension Read. "Serious electric bass" for exercises [/quote] You know me so well!! You mean [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Serious-Electric-Bass-Complete-Contemporary/dp/1576238830/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AHRB2OK2Q2YCL"]this[/url] book, Simon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yep - that's the badger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Ordered. [size=4]It looks like it's a good book for many other things too. [/size] [size=4]Many thanks Simon.[/size] Rich Edited January 14, 2014 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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