Stingray pick-up / preamp

[Guest MoJo]

Finally got my 1990 SR4 back in one piece. The first thing that struck me was how the tone of the G string seemed to lack body compared to the other three strings. I did a bit of digging on the 'net and found several different theories behind the Stingray 4's weak G string one being misalignment with the pick-up's pole pieces. Examining my bass, I found



If I play an open G and push the saddle down, the body in that string's tone improves. Does anyone make a replacement pick-up that uses bar magnets that should over-come this problem?

Secondly, I really don't like the preamp. I don't know whether they're all like mine but I have to have the bass full up to get any body in the tone and the treble turned right off. If the treble is turned right up, it is ear-piercingly bright. Can anyone recommend a more usable 2 band EQ?

Thanks

[simon1964]

The John East Stingray pre-amps are really good.

[BassBus]

I can't speak for the MM preamps but I've just had an East J-Retro fitted to my Jazz and it sounds monstrous when you need it to.

[Guest MoJo]

Are all 90's 2EQ pre-amps like mine then?

[umph]

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1341146412' post='1714244'] Finally got my 1990 SR4 back in one piece. The first thing that struck me was how the tone of the G string seemed to lack body compared to the other three strings. I did a bit of digging on the 'net and found several different theories behind the Stingray 4's weak G string one being misalignment with the pick-up's pole pieces. Examining my bass, I found If I play an open G and push the saddle down, the body in that string's tone improves. Does anyone make a replacement pick-up that uses bar magnets that should over-come this problem? Secondly, I really don't like the preamp. I don't know whether they're all like mine but I have to have the bass full up to get any body in the tone and the treble turned right off. If the treble is turned right up, it is ear-piercingly bright. Can anyone recommend a more usable 2 band EQ? Thanks [/quote]

I think a stingray may be the wrong bass for you. Have you tried a P strung with flats?

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='umph' timestamp='1341151867' post='1714338']
I think a stingray may be the wrong bass for you. Have you tried a P strung with flats?
[/quote]

I have, in the past (and now Basswesty owns it) but it wasn't for me. I love my SR5. It's my 'go to' bass but the SR4 is nothing like it in terms of tone. I was hoping to get close to a classic 70's Stingray tone with the 2EQ SR4 but it's not even close

[far0n]

I've ripped out the preamp and pickup out of my Sub4. Replaced with a Nordstrand MM4.2 and a John East 3 band parametric eq preamp. Weirdly the chrome plate that came with it didn't fit the screw holes. No idea if this is a Sub4 anomaly or not ?? Anyway, has it cured the weak G ? Yes, although there is a tendancy for the strings to get weaker towards the G, but I've had this same problem on plenty of other basses in the past. It's manageable if you screw the E end down a bit. The Nordstrand is quite a subtle pickup though, certainly not "in your face screaming stingray" as you might want. Me personally I like that, I always thought the original pickup was over the top sound wise. The Bartolini MM replacement is single rails across all four strings so that may be your best bet pickup wise.

[stingrayPete1977]

Ignore the talk about pole pieces its utter rubbish, If they had covered poles it would never of even been a theory! That thread has been done many times and we found loads of basses with strings that dont run over the pups pole pieces and guitars too, Put it this way does a Fender Strat drop in volume if you bend the strings well out of any pole pieces when playing a solo?

I think you could have the whole pickup too close to the strings which sounds like your going to have even less chance of hearing the G string but hear me out, if you lower the pup into the body quite a bit on the E side and lower the G end level to start with then plug it in and try it to see what the overall sound is like then you will need to boost your amp volume wise a little from where it was to compensate and the G will probably be too weak, keep it plugged in use a flat EQ, raise the G end up until it gives a bit more clarity and an even output, I have done this at home before in isolation and actually had to reduce the pup back on the G end a bit at the next rehersal as it was actually over powering on the G&D strings, crazy I know

As for the EQ I would take the 2 EQ over a 3 any day, Im saving up for a Classic Ray5 as we speak

[stingrayPete1977]

BTW the pole pieces are so strong if the pup is too close it actually trys to dampen the string and stop it vibrating which will obviously reduce the output from that string.

[Guest MoJo]

Thanks for that Pete. What are your thoughts on the pre-amp. Martin's 30th anniversary SR4 and my SR5 both have that classic 90's Stingray tone but my SR4 sounds nothing like either. The treble control on full chat is way too bright for anyone in my opinion and the sound with the bass rolled right off is so thin as to be unusable. Do you think my preamp is shot?

[stingrayPete1977]

I guess it could be or it could of had a pot changed or something? Even a passive wired standard MM pickup should not sound totally thin. I tried a new Classic Ray4 a while ago and it was a lot brighter than my pre EB even though its meant to be exactly the same circuit (last pre EB version with electrolytic caps), that said it could be rolled off to give anything from muddy thumps all the way back up as you say to glass shattering highs. The John East version is meant to be very good and mcnach is your man for info on those

[4 Strings]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1341162688' post='1714546']
Ignore the talk about pole pieces its utter rubbish, If they had covered poles it would never of even been a theory! That thread has been done many times and we found loads of basses with strings that dont run over the pups pole pieces and guitars too, Put it this way does a Fender Strat drop in volume if you bend the strings well out of any pole pieces when playing a solo?

I think you could have the whole pickup too close to the strings which sounds like your going to have even less chance of hearing the G string but hear me out, if you lower the pup into the body quite a bit on the E side and lower the G end level to start with then plug it in and try it to see what the overall sound is like then you will need to boost your amp volume wise a little from where it was to compensate and the G will probably be too weak, keep it plugged in use a flat EQ, raise the G end up until it gives a bit more clarity and an even output, I have done this at home before in isolation and actually had to reduce the pup back on the G end a bit at the next rehersal as it was actually over powering on the G&D strings, crazy I know

As for the EQ I would take the 2 EQ over a 3 any day, Im saving up for a Classic Ray5 as we speak
[/quote]

There is wisdom and truth in this. I found that the pup magnet are very strong and if set too close to the string a sort of slightly phased sound is heard and this is a weaker sound. I set mine up in a similar way, set the G as close without this effect and then balance the E side accordingly. This results in quite a gap from the pup to the string but a balanced output. I don't suffer from a weak G.

[stingrayPete1977]

That's it, a less is more approach using the amps headroom rather than putting the pup too close, even with it quite far away the signal to the amp will be hotter than say a passive p bass or similar. Some people have pushed the pole pieces out more but I have not needed to yet on any of mine. A good bit of trial and error should do the trick, also quite a few of us with the 2 EQ preamp use the bass knob flat out all the time then use the treble pot like a single tone pot, the results are usually good and offer a massive scope in one simple adjustment, I use fingers, pick and the odd bit of slap, it's very easy to dial in a good sound on the fly live if like me when using those different techniques your EQ needs altering to suit.

Edited July 1, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[4 Strings]

I have two (now!) a pre-EB, bass always full up, treble most of the way off unless I want to slap (which isn't often) then up it comes, almost like a switch. Both these tones are outstanding, very powerful. The other I have recently acquired is a 3 band, treble and mid on the detent and bass full up. I'll put up the mid if I need more definition (like last night when, unusually, I was DI'd and the tone out front was bass heavy to say the least (even for the Motown set). This bass gives a very powerful sound too despite the pups being a little way from the strings.

These basses do work and, in my experience, unparalleled for tone.

The Pre-EB is the better bass.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1341172748' post='1714741']
That's it, a less is more approach using the amps headroom rather than putting the pup too close, even with it quite far away the signal to the amp will be hotter than say a passive p bass or similar. Some people have pushed the pole pieces out more but I have not needed to yet on any of mine. A good bit of trial and error should do the trick, also quite a few of us with the 2 EQ preamp use the bass knob flat out all the time then use the treble pot like a single tone pot, the results are usually good and offer a massive scope in one simple adjustment, I use fingers, pick and the odd bit of slap, it's very easy to dial in a good sound on the fly live if like me when using those different techniques your EQ needs altering to suit.
[/quote]

I found myself doing much the same with my 3EQs - albeit with the Mids set to the middle position.

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep I agree with all of that guys that's how I use my SR5 EQs too

[stingrayPete1977]

Oh yeah and the pre EBs are the best

[Guest MoJo]

Going to try dropping the pick-up down and take it from there

[4 Strings]

...or find a pre-EB! Just kidding!

No, I'm not.

[mike257]

Am I right in thinking that (unlike the boost/cut controls on a 3EQ) the treble on the 2EQ is boost only? If so, then having it all the way off is the 'flat' position and the extreme settings could easily veer into treble overkill.

I might be completely wrong of course. Happens a lot.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1341177996' post='1714879']
...or find a pre-EB! Just kidding!

No, I'm not.
[/quote]

I wish I could afford one. I'd buy one in a heartbeat

[mcnach]

[quote name='far0n' timestamp='1341159124' post='1714480']
I've ripped out the preamp and pickup out of my Sub4. Replaced with a Nordstrand MM4.2 and a John East 3 band parametric eq preamp. Weirdly the chrome plate that came with it didn't fit the screw holes. No idea if this is a Sub4 anomaly or not ?? Anyway, has it cured the weak G ? Yes, although there is a tendancy for the strings to get weaker towards the G, but I've had this same problem on plenty of other basses in the past. It's manageable if you screw the E end down a bit. The Nordstrand is quite a subtle pickup though, certainly not "in your face screaming stingray" as you might want. Me personally I like that, I always thought the original pickup was over the top sound wise. The Bartolini MM replacement is single rails across all four strings so that may be your best bet pickup wise.
[/quote]

Do you still have the original pickup on the SUB? I like them and I would be interested in it if you were selling...

And +1 for the John East MMSR preamp.
My Stingray was 2EQ, and I found it a bit too brittle on the high end. I bouught the 3-band from JE, more for the midsweep than anything, but as a bonus, I found the treble seemed a bit less gritting and more useable, while the bottom end seemed... "tighter" somehow.
However, I am happy with the 2EQ in my SUB. I think the different pickup in the SUB (wired in series) works better with the 2EQ preamp. For me.

Plate not fitting... I encountered the same thing with my 2002 Stingray. So I reused the original plate. I told John East about it. I actually compared the plate to my OLPs, and... it was identical to the OLP plates, but as you found out, the Stingray (and SUB) is a tiny bit different. I guess he has not changed them, or still has a few of those. He said he'd look into it when I sent him pictures... but he also said nobody had mentioned this to him before (hmmm)

The Bartolini pickups may be nice, but if a "stingray" tone is desired, perhaps not the best choice.

Edited July 2, 2012 by mcnach

[Mcgiver69]

I had the same problem and changed the pickup for a Status MM Pickup, they are made with bar magnets instead of pole pieces and have way less magnetic pull which means that the strings can vibrate more freely. Now my G string is present.

The John East preamps are a great option.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1341162688' post='1714546']
Ignore the talk about pole pieces its utter rubbish, If they had covered poles it would never of even been a theory! That thread has been done many times and we found loads of basses with strings that dont run over the pups pole pieces and guitars too, Put it this way does a Fender Strat drop in volume if you bend the strings well out of any pole pieces when playing a solo?

I think you could have the whole pickup too close to the strings which sounds like your going to have even less chance of hearing the G string but hear me out, if you lower the pup into the body quite a bit on the E side and lower the G end level to start with then plug it in and try it to see what the overall sound is like then you will need to boost your amp volume wise a little from where it was to compensate and the G will probably be too weak, keep it plugged in use a flat EQ, raise the G end up until it gives a bit more clarity and an even output, I have done this at home before in isolation and actually had to reduce the pup back on the G end a bit at the next rehersal as it was actually over powering on the G&D strings, crazy I know

As for the EQ I would take the 2 EQ over a 3 any day, Im saving up for a Classic Ray5 as we speak
[/quote]


+1 for this man.

I do not notice a difference when I bend strings and push the string sideways over the polepiece... I doubt that with those huge poles sliding the string a bit one way or the other makes a big difference... I certainly do not hear it, so I am with stingrayPete about the polepiece position being not very important.

I find, however, that string gauge does make a difference.

In addition to what is said above abount the pickup height etc...
Use a 40 for the G?
Move to a 45, and you will notice a difference.
Even more so with a 50, although going from 40-50 may not seem nice at first if you are used to thinner gauges.

The MM 3EQ is different from the JE 3EQ. The JE 3-band is merely a 2-band, with an added mid-sweep control. The midsweep control alone is wonderful as it allows you to really fine tune your sound.
On the MM 2EQ, as in my SUB, I tend to have the bass control just slightly up, and the treble anything from totally down, to quite high, depending on the situation. I find they interact a lot, and sometimes you can control the top end better if you turn down bass, rather than turning up treble...
These basses, in passive form, do not sound thin at all. Lots of bottom end. But you need to balance the controls not to unbalance the sound too much.
The treble is cut and boost, without centre detent... so no idea where it is flat (unless you have a bypass switch added). The bass control I've heard it said it's boost only. To me it sounds like it is asymmetrical, and can boost a lot more than it can cut.

For the Stingray I went with the JE 3-band, and I asked for a bypass switch to be installed. Because of that, I am sure I know what my bass sounds like without the preamp, and so where the "flat" setting is. And believe me, thin is not the word that best describes the sound.

Edited July 2, 2012 by mcnach

[stingrayPete1977]

Thanks for your input Jose I knew you were the man for the job regarding the pre amp and I agree on the string gauges too, I have actually just gone to .45 on my black Ray5 to see how I get on as mainly I wanted the 130 B instead of the 125 I had previously, the only word of caution is that if you change the whole set up a gauge the pickup being too close issue is exagerated again, I knew it would be before I hade even opened the packet so It was just a matter of lowering the whole pickup (2 full turns on all three screws) to compensate, its still got more output than the blue Ray5 with the 40s on now so I might even need to go another full turn which will put the ramp section flush with the pickguard!

PS congrats on the football too!