5 string - bad B - a myth?

[aldude]

I used to have a 5er, and detuned the B string to A. The weedy B string was far too flappy and loose to sound any good. So I replaced it with a .145 and all was well.

This got me to thinking - many people seem to look for a 5 string with a "good" B string - apparently some 5 stringers don't have a good B. But is this just because the gauge of the string is wrong? Would these "bad" 5 stringers be completely fixed just by adding a thicker B string?

[ead]

I think that is pretty much it. Heavy gauges reduce floppiness aka bad B string

[Jellyfish]

I think you're right. And I think complaining about a B string is as silly as complaining about fret buzz or string height. It takes no effort to get it changed.

[BigRedX]

While fitting a heavier B might give you a string that feels better, it won't always give you a string that sounds good.

IMO getting a good sound out of the B string is all down to neck construction and the neck/body joint if there is one. Unfortunately this generally costs more money.

I've found that people who are unhappy with the B-string have generally bought something at the cheaper end of the 5-string market in order to find out whether or not the extra string is going to be right for them. The cheap(er) construction generally leads to a poorer feeling and sounding B-string which then tends to put them off.

[geoffbassist]

IMO no. I've owned and played many 5ers and there is a genuine difference from bass to bass.
I used to own a very expensive bass with a weak B string and tried every possible gague and had many trips to the maker and couldn't resolve it. It was simply a lot quiter than the e, a, d & g.

It's further complicated by being much less apparent at practice levels than at giging volume.

Scale length and to a lesser degree gauge makes a difference but my current bass is 34" and has a great B. I think a big part of it is the construction of the neck.

IME Its always work experimenting with strings but some basses just have weaker B strings.

Edited July 3, 2012 by geoffbassist

[deepbass5]

BigRed, that’s my finding too. Manufacturers do a disservice to themselves and the customer by thinking to put a cheap 5 string on the market compliments their product range. I view a five string bass as a different instrument, it needs to be approached in a different way and benefits from quality material selection and set up. But to answer the question yes quite a few 5 strings suffer from bad 'B's

[BigRedX]

IME good construction always trumps just adding another inch or two to the scale length.

[geoffbassist]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341319580' post='1716903']
IME good construction always trumps just adding another inch or two to the scale length.
[/quote]

+1.

Also intresting to hear about pickup design.

For me you could hear the problem acoustically. The neck actually shook a bit when playing the B and my thoughts were that this was the reason it sounded weaker.

[ead]

[quote name='aldude' timestamp='1341314751' post='1716734']
......So I replaced it with a .145 and all was well........

[/quote]

Is the Clifton bridge still safe to cross?

[chrismuzz]

The two Peaveys, and the one Shine bass that I have owned over time (all pretty cheap IMO), have had great B strings! The only bass I ever owned which didn't was a German made "H&S" 6 string bass from eBay a few years ago. But to be fair the entire thing was so shoddily made it was near unplayable!

Played them all with .130 gauge B's as well. The 35" scale Peavey Grind even sounded good dropped down to A, until I got a beefier string on there!

Never liked those flimsy .125 gauges though...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341319580' post='1716903']
IME good construction always trumps just adding another inch or two to the scale length.
[/quote]

Oh, and this! MM Bongos 'only' have a 34" scale... Says it all really!

Edited July 3, 2012 by chrismuzz

[lettsguitars]

Most of the myths surrounding guitars are exactly that.

[thodrik]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341319580' post='1716903']
IME good construction always trumps just adding another inch or two to the scale length.
[/quote]

My view as well. My fiver has a scale length of something like 33 2/3 inches. Very good low B response. Although I have liked the 35 inch scale basses I have tried (Overwater/Lakland etc).

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1341344353' post='1717518']
My view as well. My fiver has a scale length of something like 33 2/3 inches. Very good low B response. Although I have liked the 35 inch scale basses I have tried (Overwater/Lakland etc).
[/quote] Construction goodness, yes. But the b will definately get better with longer scale basses.

[thodrik]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1341344904' post='1717532']
Construction goodness, yes. But the b will definately get better with longer scale basses.
[/quote]

I won't dispute that. But just as every 34 inch scale or less bass won't necessarily have a 'bad' b string, not every 35 inch+ scale length basses will have a 'good' B string response. Construction, pickups and EQ can compensate for a shorter scale length, although the same construction, pickups and eq would perhaps lead to a better b string sound if that bass was designed as a 35 inch scale length instrument. Although that didn't stop me from buying my five string.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Good string choice (quality/type) and a good set-up can help a lot. Good construction helps too. Only one of the fives I've had has a "weak" B, and that's my Hohner B2a V. I attribute that to the cost-cutting in the electrics department, and the fact that the instrument is simply too light!
My Stingray 5 was fine, but their QC/construction is good.
The Vigier sounds the best, as it sits well tonally with the other 4 strings
The Warwick Fortress Masterman is a bit OTT, but that's in keeping with the rest of it
Even the OLP is reasonable, and the bridge on that isn't that great.

I wonder if it's down to the rigidity of the neck, and the joint with the body?

[chris_b]

I don't believe bad B strings are a myth. Like dead spots they turn up all the time.

Lower notes sound better from longer and fatter strings, which is why pianos and harps are the shape they are, but there are also good sounding basses with shorter scales.

We just have to be aware that sh*t happens and be on the look out for basses that have problems.

[JTUK]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341317420' post='1716834']
While fitting a heavier B might give you a string that feels better, it won't always give you a string that sounds good.

IMO getting a good sound out of the B string is all down to neck construction and the neck/body joint if there is one. Unfortunately this generally costs more money.

I've found that people who are unhappy with the B-string have generally bought something at the cheaper end of the 5-string market in order to find out whether or not the extra string is going to be right for them. The cheap(er) construction generally leads to a poorer feeling and sounding B-string which then tends to put them off.
[/quote]
Nutshell......
I would go further and say there are more 5's around with an unconvincing B than not...... Certainly when I have been looking.
It is ALL in the construction. I use 118 at times and the B is great, IMO, and works up the neck as well......

[ashevans09]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341319580' post='1716903']
IME good construction always trumps just adding another inch or two to the scale length.
[/quote]

I'd agree to this to an extent. I've owned some higher end 5ers in both 34 and 35 inch scale (Pedulla, Spector, MTD + Sandberg) and tried out a number of 34s in shops and honestly, the extra inch does make a lot of difference. I think if you had a similar quality 34 and 35 next to each other, the 35 would win out every time.

Then again, all personal preference and all that. I just feel more comfortable on 35" scale basses.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ashevans09

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ashevans09' timestamp='1341441661' post='1719303']
I'd agree to this to an extent. I've owned some higher end 5ers in both 34 and 35 inch scale (Pedulla, Spector, MTD + Sandberg) and tried out a number of 34s in shops and honestly, the extra inch does make a lot of difference. I think if you had a similar quality 34 and 35 next to each other, the 35 would win out every time.

Then again, all personal preference and all that. I just feel more comfortable on 35" scale basses.
[/quote]

I have to disagree. IME adding a single inch to the overall length of the string makes little difference. On a cheap bass it can make a very slight improvement, but at that price point it's normally done because it's a marketing fix rather than an actual fix. Once you get to the level where a 35" scale bass has a good sounding B you'll find that an equally well made 34" scale bass will sound just as good.

I have basses with 34", 35" and 36" scale lengths. The 35" scale basses are the cheapest (approximately $1000 new) and unsurprisingly have the least good sounding B strings.

Edited July 5, 2012 by BigRedX

[EBS_freak]

ah yes, it's like assholes... everybody has one...

[XB26354]

There's been lots of debate on this, and I don't think there is a definitive answer.
It's note scale length because Warwicks have almost uniformly excellent B-strings and they're 34" unless you go custom shop.
It's not quality of construction or price because I've played some boutique basses with poor sounding B strings and much cheaper ones with excellent B strings.
It has something to do with strings as obviously that's the thing that is vibrating so it makes sense that trying something different/better improves the tone and feel.
The Ibanez range has very good B strings and most of them don't appear to have special attention paid to neck construction (other than that most have laminated necks). The cheap Gary Willis Bass (GWB35?) in particular is very good, even with cheaper electronics and a thick paint job.
I've found most Fender 5-strings to have a much darker and less defined B-string, which was solved by going for one with a maple board - American Standard P 5 and Marcus Miller 5 both have great B-strings.
What is true is that some basses have a bad B-string, no matter what you do with strings, setup, amplification etc. Conversely basses with a great even tone seems to stay like that even when you change things.
It's a tough one to pin down really...

[EBS_freak]

I think you'll find choice of pickup will effect quality of the B also...

[pierreganseman]

Myth yeh. My sei six 33 had a thunderous b.

[ThomBassmonkey]

I think having a good B string is harder to get right than having a good E string. So many manufacturers (even on premium instruments) think that making a 5 string is a case of making everything a little wider and putting an extra string on.

It's easy saying "stick a thicker string on it and it'll fix problems" but if you have to do that on one bass and not on another then the B on the first is clearly not as good.

I don't think it's a case of paying a premium for a decent B either, plenty of sub £500 instruments have great Bs, it's just that they need to be designed with the extra string (and the frequencies it produces) in mind.

[TRBboy]

Although string gauge can help to a certain extent, I think it's all down to the design and geometery of the bass. My bass is 34" scale, but even with a .125" B string and fairly low action, the response and tone of the B is great. The bridge design, neck joint, headstock angle and the design/reinforcement behind the nut all make a considerable difference. A traditional headstock can be okay too with a suitable string retainer/tree (lakland springs to mind) but I always seem to prefer basses with angled headstocks.