I have changed so much from my humble beginnings

[Highfox]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1341389938' post='1718001']
I'm in the pretty much the same boat Mr C. 48 and I used to get really hung up about not knowing any theory.
To be honest I'm not bothered now. I can hear when a note sounds wrong so I don't play those ones.
I've also just come to terms with not trying to over play. If for instance a chorus sounds better with me just bashing out the roots I will do it happily now.
I'd rather spend the time I'd need to learn theory writing lyrics, getting gigs or doing band admin.

That said if I was 28 now I'd probably be up for a bit of learnin'.
But then again I'd probably do what I did when I was 28 so that wouldn't work.
[/quote]
Interesting post.. Sorry I haven't read through all the replies
These 2 posts sum me up as well. I have often felt I'm very limited in my progression after playing non stop for 34 years.
It gets frustrating feeling that you are limited in what you can do,... but as a load of people have said it's up to you what you play, I find sticking in a bit of melody here and there keeps my playing fresh and also challenges me to to be a little more melodic and creative.. Roots and 5ths are fine as well it's our job.

[Balcro]

What a terrific supportive thread. Basschat at it's best. There's so much good advice in the various replies. I particularly like what Charic and Sarah Thomas have to say.

Theory is a means to an end. A bit like the driving test before you drive for the rest of your life. So avoid getting hung-up on the mechanics of musical theory. The various scales can be useful for giving you background structure to what you're playing, but they're secondary to playing the note interval and having the ear for what the third, the fifth, the minor 7th and the pentatonic whatever etc,, sound like.

Do go and get some lessons from a sympathetic teacher. Scales, chords and intervals seem to be what you're looking for. You might want to know the notes and that 's fine, but time will come when you just hear a note and you'll know a fifth or an octave because you can sing it in your head.

I know you like books fumps. Remember the "Hendrix" book. Personally I would keep the book use to a minimum. I've only ever bought 2 and the music/tab stuff was enough. Says to self, ("did Paul McCartney really play that floppy bass line?" -- and he can't read music either). However if books do it for you, then use 'em.

Personally, I'd like to pick you all up in my magic bus, including "kingbollock" who's so far west he's almost in the sea, and take you off to the Basschat weekend school where you can learn a little, laugh a lot, cry a little, and learn a little bit more. So from an ancient (10 years older than Karlfer's coffin dodgers) theory-absorbed piano/keyboard brained bass player whose fretting hand doesn't work too well, good luck.

Balcro.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Balcro

[gjones]

You don't need theory to be a 'good' bass player. What you do need though is a love of music. Once you've picked the style of music you want to play, analyse it and listen to what the bass lines of your favourite players are doing. Play along to the tracks and don't just play the basslines already recorded, make up your own. Listen to a song and hum what you think an altenative bassline should be before you even touch the fretboard - then play it. All of these will make you a better player. Learning theory on it's own won't.

Edited July 4, 2012 by gjones

[ead]

I picked up the bass aged 46 with fingers suffering from 30+ years of rugby dislocations, breaks etc. which limits what I can do a bit. Although decent theory from studying violin at school.

I count myself very fortunate to have fallen into a band that I really enjoy playing with (I'm hoping that's a mutual thing) and we have have been together for nearly 5 years now. We play as many originals as we think we can get away with and some covers. Because of jobs, kids etc it's very much a hobby and we tend to rehearse 2 to 3 times a month and gig when we can.

Can't beat it!

[fumps]

[quote name='Balcro' timestamp='1341399740' post='1718246']
Personally, I'd like to pick you all up in my magic bus, including "kingbollock" who's so far west he's almost in the sea, and take you off to the Basschat weekend school where you can learn a little, laugh a lot, cry a little, and learn a little bit more. So from an ancient (10 years older than Karlfer's coffin dodgers) theory-absorbed piano/keyboard brained bass player whose fretting hand doesn't work too well, good luck.

Balcro.
[/quote]

I'd buy a ticket lol

yes mate I totally agree, I was really nervous about my OP, i was not sure what people would say or how people would react, but Bass chat has a way of being fantastic and giving you the viewpoint you need when you need it.
I hope others will find this thread as useful as I have done.

Again I'm deeply in debt to the fantastic people of Bass chat without your words & opinions i would have not got certain things in order & in perspective in the complicated store room that is my brain

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I want to know the band you played for Fumps!

(PM me if you don't want to advertise )

[dmccombe7]

I think a few basic lessons to point you in the right direction might help and you will be surprised at how easy it will be provided you accept yourself as a beginner when attending the lessons.
Once you get more comfortable with the teacher you will realise you are far more knowledgable than you initially thought.
As pointed out by Happy Jack you are an experienced beginner and that is better than knowing absolutely nothing.

I took lessons 35 yrs ago and it has been helpful but by no means a pre-requisite to playing bass. There are many bass players with no knowledge of music yet they have a great technique and can play better than most.

You say you have found a relaxed fingerstyle that your daughter reckons is "classical" in style. Work on that. Playing with several fingers tells me that you have the capability to play but lack a lot of the confidence probably based on the fact you "used to play" thrash metal styles.
We all learned on different styles of music. I learned on Rock Music like Status Quo which was easy and moved onto Rock then Prog then Jazz then a bit of Funk and then whatever took my fancy and currently back to playing rock again at 52yrs old.

I'm still learning. I don't read music very often these days and tend to play by ear. I still use the fundamentals like when guitarist tells me he's playing an A i know what an A is and that's enough at the moment. I did look at perfecting my technique which is why i bought the 6 string fretless cause I'm a lazy sod and this forces me to play better or the wife will hit me with it - LOL.

I too like the 5 finger relaxed plucking style and find it relaxing and quite simply - just nice to do. Not sure if i would use it live in current band but i enjoy it at home.

You must have known what the notes were when you started out with your band at an early age. I'm kinda guessing you had a feel for what sounded right otherwise it would have been out of tune and sounded pretty c**p to be honest. Don't underestimate that fact that you must have had a feel for it back then. Use that feel and add a few basic lessons and if you take to lessons then make the best of it and take it to level you feel comfortable with if that makes any sense.

Like several others before my input i was very touched and moved by your post.

Well done and all the very best whatever you decide to do.

Cheers
Dave

[charic]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1341405609' post='1718408']
I want to know the band you played for Fumps!

(PM me if you don't want to advertise )
[/quote]

It was Metallica but he changed his name from Cliff and faked his death

[fumps]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1341405609' post='1718408']
I want to know the band you played for Fumps!

(PM me if you don't want to advertise )
[/quote]

Will PM you in a few mins....stories will be also added as there is a lot cut out
[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1341406423' post='1718434']
You say you have found a relaxed fingerstyle that [b]your daughter[/b] ( ) reckons is "classical" in style. Work on that. Playing with several fingers tells me that you have the capability to play but lack a lot of the confidence probably based on the fact you "used to play" thrash metal styles.
We all learned on different styles of music. I learned on Rock Music like Status Quo which was easy and moved onto Rock then Prog then Jazz then a bit of Funk and then whatever took my fancy and currently back to playing rock again at 52yrs old.

You must have known what the notes were when you started out with your band at an early age. I'm kinda guessing you had a feel for what sounded right otherwise it would have been out of tune and sounded pretty c**p to be honest. Don't underestimate that fact that you must have had a feel for it back then. Use that feel and add a few basic lessons and if you take to lessons then make the best of it and take it to level you feel comfortable with if that makes any sense.

Like several others before my input i was very touched and moved by your post.

Well done and all the very best whatever you decide to do.

Cheers
Dave
[/quote]

Hi Dave
Cheers for your post, Yes mate the style i've started developing is a very chilled finger style (like a plucked acoustic guitar player, think Richard Thompson, but less skilled )
I started doing this years ago because the Bass lines I was playing back then (early Metallica, Slayer & Iron Maiden) was hard to do finger style (I cant play with a plectrum, never been able to do it) so I started playing with all four fingers staring with my little finger and working to my index in one stroke, it just made sense to me that i could hit the string 4 times instead of twice. I still do it now but now i've started playing the bass in a more relaxed style, I feel in a very natural state when i play the bass like that. but as i dont know really how to make the style work. which is why i've just gone to ground.....Over the course of this thread i realise i need to butch up & get out there and show people what i'm doing.

I really do appreciate your kind words and take on board what you say. I have organised some time with a good mate (Very talented sound technician to show me how to do my own recordings so i hope to maybe post some recordings of how i play soon enough.

Thank you again Dave for your time & input its very appreciated.
Gav

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1341406479' post='1718437']
It was Metallica but he changed his name from Cliff and faked his death
[/quote]


You told.............



***runs away & weeps***

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341413761' post='1718599']
so I started playing with all four fingers staring with my little finger and working to my index in one stroke,
[/quote]

At last! Someone else who does this, thank you thank you thank you, i am not a freak!

I always figured I've got 4 fingers, why not use them all and save all that stress.

[LiamPodmore]

If i re-joined my first band now i would probably want to shoot myself, though on the other hand, i might find it more enjoyable as i actually know what i'm doing with a bass now and would be able to craft some good basslines. I left that band after a year and joined my current band. During the first 2 years of my playing i was having regularly weekly lessons at school, which helped at first but then it turned to just learning new songs as the guitarists i was grouped with weren't up to scratch (One of which was the guitarist in my first band) so i really didn't get the help i needed with the theory side of things, which at the time didn't see as an issue as i didn't know.

As many others have said, the first step toward solving a problem is actually realising that there's a problem. As is the same with you Fumps, i have no idea what makes up my playing either, i just play what i think sounds good for the song (which tends to be theoritacally correct as that's what sounds best) and i only know basic scales (Pentatonic major and minor, i think) although i have been reading Bass Guitar For Dummies to try and rectify this, with no luck.

I think that you would probably benefit from learning theory in a much more hands on approach, actually being shown it and having the support from a good teacher showing you where you're making mistakes and where you're excelling. This is part of the reason i am seriously contemplating on getting Piano lessons, as it's an instrument i've always wanted to learn and will help with my bass playing, because i'll be entering as almost a complete novice, so i feel like i wont be fixing mistakes from my past.

I'd be very surprised if that made sense to anyone, but if it does, and it helps, that's even better.

Liam

Edit: I have also tried that so called strange 4 finger technique, and use it on certain songs (Though 3 finger not 4) and it's quite fun actually, though it does feel a little awkward at first.

Edited July 4, 2012 by LiamPodmore

[fumps]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1341415140' post='1718632']
At last! Someone else who does this, thank you thank you thank you, i am not a freak!

I always figured I've got 4 fingers, why not use them all and save all that stress.
[/quote]

Thank god for that ....People used to look at me like i was wearing a dress at metal gigs doing this finger style. *
I'm glad I'm not alone lol


[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1341415276' post='1718637']
I'd be very surprised if that made sense to anyone, but if it does, and it helps, that's even better.

Liam

Edit: I have also tried that so called strange 4 finger technique, and use it on certain songs (Though 3 finger not 4) and it's quite fun actually, though it does feel a little awkward at first.
[/quote]
Mate your speaking to a man who want to be a fire truck, it makes perfect sense. I was thinking about the piano idea too as it makes perfect sense.

Go on master four fingers, it does work once you get the flow right



[size=2]*No actually thinking back, you got the Mosh pit perverts (The guys who stand watching your playing technique (Yeh you know the types) shaking their heads & the guys (& girls) who would shake your hand & go "Jesus i cant believe you did Battery with your fingers......i've never seen someone playing with your hand like that"[/size]

[Musicman20]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341320434' post='1716924']
Yeh I have gone the exact opposite to what I used to be. strange how life changes you
[/quote]

I've had this experience, and im 31. I was 30 at the time, and I'd rejoined an old band who played hardcore punk. We USED to have a lot of fun, and it was all about what WE wanted to play. As we all grew up listening to (and I still listen to it!) 90s skate punk, hardcore, and ska, (obviously with some of the original 70s and 80s stuff thrown in) we tried to just do it, and ignore the current wave of very heavy hardcore, which isn't really my thing. Its more like metal to be honest, and as much as I appreciate some good metal bands, bands like NOFX and Bad Religion do a lot more for me, and you can HEAR the bass properly as well.

Anyway, I went back. It was a disaster. They had turned into what the disliked and wanted to stay away from, (eg they had followed the masses and toned down the melody and speed and just written heavy heavy beatdowns).

The drummer is still class, but that wasn't enough. Plus I wasnt the oldest, yet I felt myself wanting to leave the tour as I felt far more mature and friendly than anyone else. I just didn't care, so I left. I also fell out with a good friend due to it all, even though I never did anything wrong. We still don't get on like we used to.

My girlfriend said I'd obviously moved on. I have. I play 80-90% fingerstyle, and I learn pop/RnB/motown/funk/dance songs now, and I love it.

Recently, a guy we all toured with back then from another band came round to jam...just to see if I fancied joining his new band. I have, as his requirements for time match perfectly (he is at uni doing a masters and I'm very busy with my career) and we just seem to have that level of maturity that matches. He also likes the bass a lot, and likes busy bass players and told me to play whatever I wanted, pick, fingerstyle, whatever, as long as I like it and I put my personality into it. We are doing what could be described as a modern approach to punk, with folk and country in there somewhere. More about the songs than the riffs, and more about getting really good before we do anything.

We all must go through it. You will eventually probably join a metal band again, Maybe at the moment the time isn't right.

[lee4]

Hi Fumps.I've been through bouts of insecurity with regards to my playing on many occasions.I finally realized that I needed to push myself if I wanted to improve.
If you find a way of playing that you like,then do it.Enjoy the way [i]you [/i]do it.
Be open minded to all styles.Ask other band members what lines [i]they[/i] think you should play.Get some bass books(I think The Bass Bible is the best for learning new styles).
Above all,enjoy the bass.Free your mind and your(b)ass will follow!

[LiamPodmore]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341416229' post='1718667']

Mate your speaking to a man who want to be a fire truck, it makes perfect sense. I was thinking about the piano idea too as it makes perfect sense.

Go on master four fingers, it does work once you get the flow right

[/quote]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be a fire truck Piano's something i've considered for a while, but never been able to afford/had the time.

Liam

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341416229' post='1718667']
Thank god for that ....People used to look at me like i was wearing a dress at metal gigs doing this finger style. *
[/quote]

I have worn a dress at metal gigs as well.

[fumps]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1341477688' post='1719513']
I have worn a dress at metal gigs as well.
[/quote]
Erm well not all the way through.....it was snatched off me half way through.....erm i probably should have worn something underneath though.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1341477688' post='1719513']
I have worn a dress at metal gigs as well.
[/quote]

Is this Basschat or Eddie Izzard convention.

Dresses at a metal gig - come on guys - kilts I can accept (being a Scot) but dresses - Mmmmmm .

Are you sure bass playing isn't a front for some hidden craving to be a woman

All the best and yes I'm kidding - or am i ????

Dave

[lee4]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1341584260' post='1721394']
Is this Basschat or Eddie Izzard convention.

Dresses at a metal gig - come on guys - kilts I can accept (being a Scot) but dresses - Mmmmmm .

Are you sure bass playing isn't a front for some hidden craving to be a woman

All the best and yes I'm kidding - or am i ????

Dave
[/quote]
Congratulations,you've been Fumped!
If you've been left feeling slightly confused,worried,and scared for your own sanity,then you too have spoken to The Master of all Absurdity,His Fumpishness.

Edited July 6, 2012 by lee4

[sarah thomas]

Here's a quote from the Victor Wooten book mentioned earlier:

“Rhythm can be looked at as harmony slowed down.”
“What do you mean?” He totally lost me with that
comment.
“A-440 means that a note vibrates four hundred and forty
times per second, right?”
“Yeah, I understand that.”
“If you keep cutting that number in half, 440, 220, 110, 55,
etc., you will eventually get beats per minute. At that point,
it’s called rhythm. You see?”

I don't see. Can somebody break this down for me, into small steps that the mathematically challenged might understand?

[paulbass]

I went through a phase like this when i was younger.Like you i played in a heavy rock band and being the driving force in a band gave me belief and recognition but something was missing. At this time i had been playing for 3 years and i felt my playing had become dull so i left this band not knowing what to do. I had all the kit but no music knowledge....if that makes sense?!!
By fate a year later i was asked to join a covers band that covered stuff like Duran Duran,Paul Young,Talk Talk,Frankie goes to Hollywood,Madness etc....typical 80's stuff. After playing heavy rock music this was a culture shock and totally against the grain for me but at that time something felt right about playing with this band.Maybe it was the challenge of playing something different and what i thought was 'cheesy' was going to be easy money......how wrong was i!
I discovered a new way of playing that interested me and took me to another level and unknown to me at the time it suited my style and i played it well! I would of loved to learn more theory but i found i didnt have time.I was too busy discovering new ways of making the bass groove by listening to allsorts of music and trying to create the same feel and groove as some of these talented bassists.
That was 25 years ago! I've played in allsorts of bands since and learnt something from all of them....did i have music lessons? NO! i still havent got round to that and now with the internet i have discovered more interesting styles and ways to play so that keeps me entertained!
By the way at the age of 42 i now play in a heavy rock band playing the stuff that i used to get bored of playing but this time i've learnt to groove and add a bit of colour to the lines i play and really enjoy it....strange how its gone full circle for me on that one but one thing i have learnt is that playing an instrument is like having a relationship.You have good and bad times you just need to keep working at it and keep it interesting! Ive played bass longer than i've been with my wife and the big difference is my bass never answers me back!

[fumps]

[quote name='lee4' timestamp='1341601794' post='1721772']
Congratulations,you've been Fumped!
If you've been left feeling slightly confused,worried,and scared for your own sanity,then you too have spoken to The Master of all Absurdity,His Fumpishness.
[/quote]
And this one started as a serious thread........i have no idea how it went left at the traffic lights. But I'm glad my real life personality comes through accurately.

My mate once said "a view into your mind for one day only would be like the LSD that Satan secretes from his bum crack.....you'd never come back from the brink".
I've no idea what he means I was too busy staring at a bee

[fumps]

Well guys I thought I'd give an update.

This weekend I managed to wrangle an extended period of practice time (thank god for rain eh?), armed with a few bass books, a laptop & my trusty Bass I started to actually study what I was doing. learning from the book (Literally from the beginning) and learning what I was playing.
Root, fifth & seventh note bass lines.

I was fighting the urge to play what I usually would & actually sat patiently & played like a student (Note pad, the works) I was sometimes a little lost so would look on the net at study bass & Musicopedia.com (Brilliant website) to find a slightly easier explanation. but I feel much better about myself.
It's really a funny thing when it clicks that some of the things you were doing already is correct but you didn't know the reason why it was right in the first place.


Root's & 5ths ......never knew the notes I was playing WAS roots & 5th's they just sounded correct also 5ths that are below, this is why I think people thought I knew more than I did......just pure fluke that I was actually playing the correct notes.
I was playing with these a while & getting to know the fretboard (Musicopedia.com fret board test is superb) then once I got a little more confident that I had worked out the patterns of the fretboard I started to work out some songs just by looking at the chords played on guitar. Before I knew it I was working out a strange Bass version of a Crowded house song (Not a CH fan or owt) but within about 5 mins of messing about I had sorted a bass line hat was almost a lead guitar line, my other half was astonished that I did it in the time that I did. But it's like the knowladge was instantly useful. It's not like my left/right hand technique is wrong it's just the squidgy grey thing that was controlling them was lagging behind .....anyway I'm a happy bunny now.

My god I seemed have suddenly accelerated into a learning stream. And I'm loving it so far.

I'm struggling as to why I now have to understand the chord descriptions by numbers though, I'm a little lost on that one. But I [i]will[/i] work it out in my head I'm in no rush to learn everything. I have become very inspired but peoples kind words of encouragement & common sense.

Cheers guys it's done me a world of good to realise that I'm not alone in this but also don't see learning music as endless maze, pick & choose what info you need & work with what you have.......good advice & great site.

[fumps]

[quote name='sarah thomas' timestamp='1341668647' post='1722531']
Here's a quote from the Victor Wooten book mentioned earlier:

“Rhythm can be looked at as harmony slowed down.”
“What do you mean?” He totally lost me with that
comment.
“A-440 means that a note vibrates four hundred and forty
times per second, right?”
“Yeah, I understand that.”
“If you keep cutting that number in half, 440, 220, 110, 55,
etc., you will eventually get beats per minute. At that point,
it’s called rhythm. You see?”

I don't see. Can somebody break this down for me, into small steps that the mathematically challenged might understand?
[/quote]

Aww thats easy ......

Just make sure the string is taught, the wind is in the right direction (Left to right from the opposite pram wheel) and don't jump before the washer falls off, other wise you'll have to set it up all over again......ho & never wear your cloth cap, you'll scare the frogs away.

[charic]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341838106' post='1724822']
I'm struggling as to why I now have to understand the chord descriptions by numbers though, I'm a little lost on that one. But I [i]will[/i] work it out in my head I'm in no rush to learn everything. I have become very inspired but peoples kind words of encouragement & common sense.
[/quote]

What do you mean "by numbers"?