watton_earth Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Been following this on talkbass for a while (3years? )...how are you going to finish off this awesome bass? Natural...fireglo...blueboy...pollockglo? Love the idea of the M tail piece. How are you going to achieve that? also...I'd like to see the 3/4 Rick 360 when you start, keep us posted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='watton_earth' timestamp='1341764685' post='1723747'] Been following this on talkbass for a while (3years? )...how are you going to finish off this awesome bass? Natural...fireglo...blueboy...pollockglo? Love the idea of the M tail piece. How are you going to achieve that? also...I'd like to see the 3/4 Rick 360 when you start, keep us posted.... [/quote] Too many flaws to stay natural. My 360 is fireglo and it's gorgeous but reproducing wouldn't be easy. My 4003 is Jetglo and cool looking and would be pretty straightforward. The advantage of Pollokglo is that it would hide any multitude of sins and allow me to be much lazier when it comes to fine sanding and finishing. At the moment, Jetglo is the winner but there's still time to switch. The "M" tailpiece will be crafted from a slab of 1/4" steel plate. I'm going old skool on this one so it's gonna be a lot of elbow grease; basic shape with hacksaw/grinder, drill some holes, maybe the jigsaw, and then hit it with the files before polishing and chroming. I expect the 3/4 360 will be a way off yet and I worry that my daughter will be ready for a full sized version by the time I'm complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) I did a little more work this weekend including drilling the 17.5mm (11/16") holes in the headstock for the Schallers. The arbor bit I bought last week was around 0.5mm too big (almost 18mm) and with added wobble factor, the holes in my test piece were too sloppy to hold the bushings in. I had to hone the bit down to just under 17.5 and the bushings now fit snug in the headstock. Also drilled the holes for the mounting screws once I'd got the positions for the tuners. I took a litte more material out of the headstock for access to the trussrod adjustment and generally cleaned the headstock up ready for finishing. I'm really not sure if I should be thinking about gluing the neck into the body so that I can level the back down evenly ready for the rear panel to be glued in and the binding rabbet cut. I'm also toying with the idea of skimming a little more off the neck. I'm worried it might be a little "fat" and not give the same sustain as the slighter original neck. My biggest worry is the depth of those truss rod channels. It's odd because it looks like it's almost ready to rock and roll but when I think about it, there still shed loads of work ahead. I just need to make sure I don't jump the gun and do things in the right order. The closer you get to the end, the more critical it is not to screw something up and this being my first build, I don't have experience to guide me... Edited July 8, 2012 by The Legoheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='The Legoheads' timestamp='1341790330' post='1724304'] It's odd because it looks like it's almost ready to rock and roll but when I think about it, there still shed loads of work ahead. I just need to make sure I don't jump the gun and do things in the right order. The closer you get to the end, the more critical it is not to screw something up and this being my first build, I don't have experience to guide me... [/quote] This is your[i] first [/i]bass build????? Holy cow! What are you going to come up with when you've got a few more builds under your belt? Really enjoying this thread, and I love these basses. GASsing like mad right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've just read this entire thread with my mouth wide open. beautiful workmanship & it's clearly a instrument that once finished will be loved. I am in awe of this & it looks so amazing it hurts lol I cant wait to see this finished. I wish i knew where to even start on something like building a bass never mind a 4005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the encouragement. My wife thinks I'm nuts; in her words, "you've already got too many guitars. Why are you building another"? My answer is simply, "because I didn't build any of the others...". I suppose it's a tick the box before you die kind of thing. Some people climb Everest, or swim with dolphins but I'd like to think there will be something of me left behind when I'm dead and gone. When you think of it like that, it's a little easier to put more of your heart and soul into it. I'm sure there are much more talented and skillful "crafters" out there that could do a better job but this bass is really about me and what I can achieve. To be honest, it's turning out better than I'd ever dreamed it would but I'm not out of the woods just yet. It's also been a great learning experience and with 6 years to mull over the plans and preparations, the project certainly hasn't suffered from lack of fore-thought. For anyone who doubts their own ability to undertake this kind of build, I'd have to say, "just go for it". You have little to lose other than the price of a few bits of wood and the countless hours you would otherwise waste in front of the TV. The worse that can happen is that you'll give up and have a half cut body blank staring at you from the corner of the garage for the next 20 years... or maybe after 6 years you'll pick it up and finish what you started. Edited July 14, 2012 by The Legoheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Managed to steal away a couple of hours this morning to start work on the tailpiece. I cut out the template and used the offcut as a stencil for spray-painting the profile. Next, I jigsawed the main curve before using a cutting wheel on the grinder for the straighter edges. I then penciled in the "M" and sidebars using the template as a guide before drilling some starter holes and filing to shape. [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece02.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece03.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece04.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece05.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece06.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece07.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece08.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece09.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 How are you forming the string guides underneath the tailpiece, are you welding it on later? Great work again!, it's looking fab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1342291577' post='1732960'] How are you forming the string guides underneath the tailpiece, are you welding it on later? Great work again!, it's looking fab. [/quote] The plate is 1/4" thick so I'm hoping to have enough material to incorporate the string guides. I guess it will come down to some gentle use of the cutting wheel and some refining with needle files. It's still quite a chunk of steel so the grinder is gonna see a lot more action to thin it out and shape it. Once the tailpiece is finished, I intend to do a preliminary construction including strings just to check the neck alignment. The fretboard of the 4005 is offset from the front of the body by quite a distance meaning that the bridge also needs to be set high so that the strings clear the frets with zero neck relief. Unfortunately, I may have a little too much offset and using a straight edge from nut to bridge I am barely clearing the frets. It would be nice not to have the bridge at the maximum height adjustment just to achieve this. If my offset is too much I can either skim some material off the rear of the fretboard or shim the neck joint by gluing in a thin veneer along the full length and width of the tenon & mortice joint. My neck and fretboard are currently perfectly matched so I'm not really wanting to take the first option. The second option also requires that I skim off the same amount of material from the back of the neck, from the heel down to the bridge. I'm hoping that the results of the preliminary build show that I have to do neither. Edited July 14, 2012 by The Legoheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 [quote name='The Legoheads' timestamp='1342295316' post='1733035'] The plate is 1/4" thick so I'm hoping to have enough material to incorporate the string guides. I guess it will come down to some gentle use of the cutting wheel and some refining with needle files. It's still quite a chunk of steel so the grinder is gonna see a lot more action to thin it out and shape it. Once the tailpiece is finished, I intend to do a preliminary construction including strings just to check the neck alignment. The fretboard of the 4005 is offset from the front of the body by quite a distance meaning that the bridge also needs to be set high so that the strings clear the frets with zero neck relief. Unfortunately, I may have a little too much offset and using a straight edge from nut to bridge I am barely clearing the frets. It would be nice not to have the bridge at the maximum height adjustment just to achieve this. If my offset is too much I can either skim some material off the rear of the fretboard or shim the neck joint by gluing in a thin veneer along the full length and width of the tenon & mortice joint. My neck and fretboard are currently perfectly matched so I'm not really wanting to take the first option. The second option also requires that I skim off the same amount of material from the back of the neck, from the heel down to the bridge. I'm hoping that the results of the preliminary build show that I have to do neither. [/quote] I can see now that the plate is quite thick, should be fine to form the guides. On mine, the fretboard is also set quite a bit higher than the body, meaning the bridge etc are set quite high also, as you say, to properly align the strings on the neck. I actually played a real 4005 about a year ago, and found it to be very similar. Having been used to playing solid body (Predominantly Fenders) basses all my life, i found the 4005 i made quite odd to play, because despite the fact that it felt fine with the fretting hand, all the way along the neck, i found it weird on my right hand, because as i looked at the strumming position of the right hand, the strings were about 30mm away from the body, so visually it was a bit odd. Something you'd get used to very quickly though, and, reassuringly, something that is also evident on the real 4005's, so don't think something is fundamentally wrong when you first string it up, as I did! Looks amazing anyway, remarkable effort on this, can't wait to see it all painted and strung up, I'm going to be very jealous, as you're doing what I wanted to do with mine, but never had the skills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watton_earth Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Would Brass have been strong enough for the tail piece? Steel is quite difficult to shape no? (I suppose it's easier to weld....) For what it's worth... I really don't like stringing up Rick tail pieces.... the dam strings fall out the seat / 'channel' before you can apply tension. I thought a better design would have been to make use of a hole 'through' the harp shaped end rather than a cut 'channel'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 I guess it's always a trade-off with such things. Brass would have been easier to work and I suspect that original tailpieces are chrome plated brass. However, my small square of 1/4" steel plate cost under $10. A similar square of brass plate might have been nearer $50...? Given all the drilling and filing I'll be doing the extra $40 may start to sound reasonable. In all honesty, I didn't really think about it too hard. If I had, then brass might have been a better choice. I am contemplating different ways to "hook" the string into the tailpiece. It's been a while since I restrung my 360 so I don't recall any major hassles with the RIC design. A proper hole would be nice given enough depth of material. Right now I'm a more focused on design for manufacture rather than design for maintenance so whatever is easiest to implement will probably win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) People have been asking me what it cost to do this project. I knew it was mounting up but never thought I'd hit the grand mark. I've not included additional tooling costs in this estimate which run at about $600 for tools and equipment I didn't previously own. The biggest of these was the thickness planer at $350. I'd hate to calculate the manhours I've put into it...!!! Body Blank $ 60.00 Neck $ 60.00 Pickups $ 300.00 Truss Rods $ 45.00 Tuners $ 75.00 Bridge $ 50.00 Fretboard $ 135.00 Binding $ 10.00 Glues $ 15.00 Scratchplate $ 15.00 Tail Anchor $ 25.00 Electronics $ 60.00 Misc Hardware #1 $ 90.00 Paniting & Finishing $ 50.00 Strings $ 20.00 Strap Bolts $ 20.00 Chroming $ 50.00 [b]Total[/b] [b] $ 1,080.00[/b] Edited July 16, 2012 by The Legoheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Got my final package of toys today and decided it was time to check out the neck alignment and relief so I strung her up with a single fat E string. The bridge needs pretty much the full adjustment to get the action parallel. This is with no neck relief though as the neck was dead straight so that should buy me a little more. I even recorded a quick video of the first few notes... Check the video out here... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL5wBEpdoY&feature=youtu.be"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL5wBEpdoY&feature=youtu.be[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't know who's more excited about this, you......or me! Lovin' it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Not much of an update right now; I'm just prepping for the final push which involves the finishing. A friend of mine has convinced me to give the Fire-Glo (Cherry Sunburst) finish a try. If it turns out to be a disaster then at least I can go over it with the originally planned Jet-Glo (Gloss Black) finish. I'm intending to use waterbased acrylic with ColorTone stains as sold by StewMac here in the US [url="http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/1730"]http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/1730[/url] [url="http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/ColorTone_Liquid_Stains.html"]http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/ColorTone_Liquid_Stains.html[/url] I figure I should be laying down 2-3 clear base coats before I start to introduce the liquid stain into the mix? But then as I build up the deeper red around the edges and no red in the centre, there will be more layers of paint around the outside. I believe that burn in between layers is pretty good with this stuff so the difference in layering between edge and center may not be too much of a problem...? Finally, once the desired "burst" has been achieved, another round of clearcoats to protect...? Any advice on achieving the finish I want with these products would be greatly appreciated even if it's just pointing me in the right direction of an appropriate post, website or article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Spent a couple more hours grinding and filing this morning. There are some really tight areas that will take a lot of time and patience with needle files to clear the material. I also attempted to rough out the string guides. As you can see, the back of the tailpiece isn't very pretty but it's functioning as required. After drilling a regular hole I fashioned a makeshift bottom reamer by cutting down a regular 1/4 " bit and flattened the bottom of the hole. I then cut the string channels with a hacksaw and widened them out with a cutting wheel on the grinder. [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece12.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece14.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece15.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/tailpiece16.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Looking great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Last night I glued the fretboard and then I spent this morning blending the seam. I also took a little more material from the neck to get a better profile. I then did a mock build with the tailpiece and all strings tuned. I had to shim the nut but apart from that the action was pretty spot-on from the get go. Intonation is way off but that's not an issue at this stage, although maybe I should be checking it's achievable before I set and glue the neck in place. I knocked out a few riffs and though I always intended that the first tune be Rose's "Resurrection", I always play "Sunshine of Your Love" to tune up. Acoustically, I was very happy with the tone, resonance and sustain even without all the parts being properly glued and with the addition of several G-clamps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y49pDHKk0u8&feature=youtu.be Edited July 30, 2012 by The Legoheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watton_earth Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 buh!...wow....just...awesome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Finally laid in the binding last week and then started spraying over the weekend. I've done 7 clear base coats and then 2 colour coats, 3 coats per day and lightly sanding before the start of each day . Doesn't seem to be going too badly so far. The pics make the "burst" look less of a graduated finish than it is, although there is one that shows the fade better than the others. It's hard to guess the final colour without spraying endless test coats on some scrap. I'm using water-based acrylic with stains (approx 10 parts cherry, 2 parts mid brown) and am just gonna keep building up until I get the depth of color I require. Hopefully, it won't take 20 coats to do that... :hmm: [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/basecoat00.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/basecoat01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/basecoat02.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/basecoat03.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/colorcote00.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/colorcote01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/colorcote02.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.legoheads.com/mickenbacker/colorcote03.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Looking great!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legoheads Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 10 coats in and ever increasing amounts of stain in the ever decreasing stock batch #1... Looks like we're finally getting somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Looking fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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