hollowsbass Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hi All, I've been asked by a bassist friend what i thought of Sandberg and i really dont know anything about them as they are not on my radar when it comes to GAS. He was asking specifically about the Sandberg Basic Ken Taylor model which i have to say, Googling a photo a bit later (4 string Black, High Gloss), looks nice and features the twin humbuckers sported by the Musicman Stingray HH. Its not cheap but neither is a Stingray. I did use to own an old pre-Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray about 5 years ago and i was very impressed by its build quality and tone. I think he should go for a Musicman HH Stingray over the Sandberg but have no experience of the Ernie Ball models so am i wrong on this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbandit599 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hi mate I can't comment on the specific Sandberg model, I have a California JM5, or the Stingray (which do always sound great), only thing I'll offer is that I've had several Fender players look a bit sick when they see the difference in build quality between the Sandberg and their USA Fenders. Of course, the Stingray may have similar quality build, but something to consider I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If anything the new EBMM models are even better built than the pre EB ones and that's from someone who loves pre EB Rays so there are no worries on that score. Resale values will be better long term on a Ray, some second hand bargain out there now could see no depreciation at all, maybe even go up a little over the next ten years? I like sandbergs but I'm told they don't sound anything like a Ray really so if it's the sound he wants I'd go for the real thing. That sounds a bit harsh but what ever anyone says its essentially a copy. That's my biased view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbandit599 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think that's fair comment around re-sale value, a lot of this is driven by name and that's understandable. I don't change gear often so this is never a consideration for me. I've got the 'Stingray Style' pick up on my Sanberg California, sounds great and it's what I want, but I'd agree it doesn't sound like a Stingray. If it's the Stingray sound you want and build quality is up to scratch then I think your choice is pretty easy. I must admit part of the Sandberg attraction for me is that it's not so well known, and I still get a kick out of spotting those four little silver circles on numerous professional musicians basses that 99% of the crowd will think are the ubiquitous Fenders. Just wish I could play the damn thing as well they can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollowsbass Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Thanks for your thoughts on this, I'll pass them on. By the way StingrayPete, you surprised me when saying EB are making better models than the originals. Is it just better fit and finish or have they gone deeper. Since my friend started asking these questions and reading your feedback (Thankyou both) its actually sparked my interest in the Stingray HH. Bloody GAS its a terrible thing isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 It's just that the pre EB is more of a hand made bass I guess, neck joints are never going to be as good as a computer guided effort, the bad ones (sorry Musicman20) are down human error as its their poor fitting or poor programming skills rather than the actual machine at fault there. Then modern paint finishes are more durable and hard as nails, again computers can be used to help mix the paints and check they are applied to the exact thicknesses the paint manufacturers suggest, 6 bolt neck joint and the awesome wheel of fortune truss rod adjuster speak for themselves. On the other hand the choice of quality timber is on the decline and for me it's the little quirks that make it more special as soon as you pick it up New or old they are still very solid bass guitars though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I briefly had a Sandberg KT, very good fit and finish but didn't sound anything like a Ray. Much darker sound out of the Humbuckers - less in your face. Very nice bass though - just didn't do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) The KT pickup positions are more towards the bridge than on a HH Ray IIRC. Therefore, the KT is more likely to have the tone of a really beefy J or PJ (this is certainly how the bucker on my PM Basic sounds). You would probably get a damn close approximation of a single pickup Ray using the blend, but never fully get the sound of the 2 pickup version. Sandbergs are beautifully built (so are MMs of course) and there is the cache of owning something a bit different, MMs are always weighty (which helps on strap balance, especially for 5 stringers) whereas AFAIK 'Bergs are a bit variable, mine is nice and light for instance, but have heard the opposite from other users. Sandbergs look best with the woods showing IMO and I really like the waxed/oil finishes as opposed to the high gloss ones. Ultimately it's a question of what sounds best to the ears of the user, how the ergonomics work for them and which one they like the look of best (that's the order of criteria I use YMMV). Either instrument will be a class investment. EDIT go onto the Berg thread on the gear porn section and get some feedback there too. Edited July 8, 2012 by ezbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I'd be happy to gig with either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) My HH Ray is my most versatile bass - does the standard Stingray thing, but with both pick ups in humbucker mode, it has the most killer slap tone, and for fingerstyle playing, smooths out the Stingray bite. The single coil settings are also great, usable tones - and it is the lightest Musicman I have. They're usually the upper end of 9 lbs but this is at least a pound lighter. Worth trying one IMO. Edited July 8, 2012 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Well, I play a Sandberg Basic Ken Taylor, and I love it! Obviously the build quality and the sound is great, but what I really love about the Basic series is the feel. For me, the neck is sooo comfortable and fits like a glove. They're pretty slender with a fairly flat fretboard radius. They balance very well on a strap and are fairly light too (although it's variable depending on what body wood you go for); mine is a high gloss black one which has an Alder body, and comes in somewhere between 7.5 - 8lb on my bathroom scales, which I think is pretty light for a 5er! The matt finishes on an Ash body usually come in around 1lb heavier, but even that's not too heavy compared to some other basses. It's a bit frustrating that people always have to compare anything with MM style 'buckers to a Stingray; it's just a pickup and it doesn't mean that every bass that has one is designed to "nail that Stingray sound"! For instance, as someone mentioned above, the California TM and VM basses have a Humbucker at the bridge position. It's never gonna sound like a Stingray, because it's in the wrong position BUT it does serve a purpose. You can get a great bridge pickup sound without the weakness sometimes associated with a J at the bridge. Of course on the California TM and the Ken Taylor the Humbuckers are splittable to single coil too to offer more versatility. I think the only Sandberg model you could kind of compare to a 'Ray is the single humbucker Basic, and even then there's enough differences to make it difficult to compare them directly. For me, the Ken Taylor offers me all the sounds I could want. I tried a SR5 for the first time in years recently and found it a little weak tbh, but I did have a suspicion that there might have been something amiss with the electronics. The Glockenklang preamp in the Ken Taylor is very transparent and natural sounding, but offers more that enough boost/cut, and the controls all seem to work together very well. The Ken Taylor is about the only 34" scale 5er that I've ever really liked. I've got quite a light set of strings on at the moment (.125" B ), and there's no issues with a sloppy B whatsoever. I think it's mainly down to great design and construction really, although they're quite a simple bass, the Basic series have been very well designed from a geometrical perspective. Basically the Ken Taylor is perfect for me, and as such I've just commissioned a new one to be built! In summary, it's two great basses that you're talking about here, but I don't really think that it's fair to ask "will a Sandberg sound like a 'Ray?", they are different basses and I'm sure both have their own merits. The only thing to do is try both and see which you like best! If you're ever in Hereford you're more than welcome to try mine! As far as price goes, at the moment you can buy a brand new Ken Taylor 5 for less than I've seen some used SR5s going, and if you find a Used Ken Taylor, you're definitely on to a bargain! Hope this all helps! Edited July 8, 2012 by TRBboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Re my post about pickup positions, check the relative placements in drTStingray' pics and TRBboy's avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1341761471' post='1723676'] Re my post about pickup positions, check the relative placements in drTStingray' pics and TRBboy's avatar [/quote] Yeah I think the traditional 'Ray pup position is bang in the middle of my two. I feel I can blend in as close an approximation of a 'Ray sound as I'll ever need. I can get pretty damn close to a P sound on the neck pup too, and the bridge pup soloed is like a J bridge on steroids! I don't really use the coil split in my rock covers band, because it sounds a bit too tame for the band IMO, but I did use it on a recent gig with the local Soul Choir, where it sounded far too aggressive in humbucker mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sime17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Dude, in my bigotted little 'blind-to-non-vintage-style-basses' world, I can't believe someone would see these two as interchangeable! When I was shopping around (via email) for my five string HH Stingray last year one well-known retailer tried the 'why not try a Roscoe?' (to lessen any offence insert name of any modern pointy thing here) approach- and I found it hard not adopt a defensive stance . I know I'm a small-minded luddite but I think I'm too old to be reformed now. I like my HH Ray very much. It's got a great range of tones and they're quick and easy to swap on the fly with the five-position switch. It'll do a nice 'hot p' with the two inner coils, a cool 'two-pickups-on-full j' with the two outer coils, and of course the classic growly ray sound with the solo'd bridge pup. 'All coils on' is a nice useable setting too. They all cut through the mix nicely (except maybe front pup solo'd) but have some nice rich tones in them. Three band eq gives loads of twiddle-ability. Build on mine is great, you do very occasionally hear of problems which at about £1200 is not on but seems pretty rare. Mine is heavy but fit and finish is really nice. Buying an EBMM of course also gives you the right to spout forth on the scariest and most cultish forum on earth, apparently. If your friend likes the [i]look[/i] of the 'ray, but wants to consider some alternatives, maybe try a G&L 2000 for a kind of similar but different approach - 2 MM pups and lots of switching options - doesn't necessarily give a classic 'ray sound though. They cost a tad more than a 'ray new and about the same used. The G&L Tribute 2000 is basically the same but much cheaper (now made in Indonesia but well built by most accounts). Also made in Indonesia and cheaper than a 'ray are the Sterling by Musicman range, comprising of the Stingray-style Ray 34 and a Sterling-style SB14 (the names here are well confusing) - they have just the one normal mm pup but the SB has some nice coil switching options. I'm sure Sandberg also do a double mm bass in their vintage-inspired California range, which generally get rave reviews. There are lots of great double-soapbar humbucker options too like the Lakland 44-01 and the Overwater/Tanglewood Contemporary J4 - both far eastern and quite competitively priced. I'm sure Fender do a twin humbucking p or j variant of some sort, and there's always the Fender Roscoe Beck sig if you can find one, people seem to rave about them, I'd love to try one. This list is by no means exhaustive! Firms like ESP and Ibanez offer stuff in this vein too probably, much of which is most likely built in the same factory as half of the above. If it's not the 'ray [i]look[/i] he's going for, just that pup combo, then er... fill yer boots. I'm sure Ibanez do one with two MMs, we know Sandberg do various ones, as do Warwick... I kind of lose interest at this point. One thing is very clear in my mind - if he's buying a pointy modern-shape one then it's got to be secondhand: it's absolutely mental to buy a new one because, with VERY few exceptions, the depreciation will bankrupt him! I'm off to seek psychiatric help now. PS. In the spirit of proper innovation, if somebody absolutely [i]has[/i] to have a 'modern' shaped bass I don't know why they don't try something properly different like a Dingwall Combustion, which at least tries a more genuinely innovative approach, or one of these: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/179614-fsft-steinberger-spirit-xt-25-5-string-with-john-east-preamp-l250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Vlad loves them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo54oWpuGk&feature=youtube_gdata_player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have a TM4 and it is spectacular. I love it. Seriously thinking about another one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Nice post sime17 I have gas for both the Lakland and G&L, the Laklands don't have quite as much bite as a Ray IMO but they have a cracking range of useable tones and match the EBMM for build quality, great basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sime17 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Thanks Mr. I loved my old Bart loaded 55-02, it was a class act and really nicely put together, just a bit too 'polite'. She now belongs to BC's own mr Chardbass. Not tried the Lakland 01s at all though, or a G&L for that matter, hmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Either would do you well. I used to own a Sandberg custom with an MM config and I now own 2 rays and in a band context they're vey hard to tell the difference between. I did a thread a while ago about my Sandberg vs a Ray 5 (single pup) and loads of people made loads of excuses about why it was wrong, the pickups in the ray (stock ones) were the wrong pickups, I had the controls set wrong etc. I did another test with the pickups set to what people wanted and it was still pretty even between people that got it right and people that got it wrong, a few more people got it right but I did manage to do the recording with the mid maxed out on my sandberg which probably skewed the results. I prefer the Ray, I'm not sure why, I just do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Nice post Sime 17 - and I agree with your view on the single coil settings - the neck pick up soloed, with boosted mids and played quite harshly gives a nice Amembicy sort of sound. [quote name='sime17' timestamp='1341867862' post='1725489'] Buying an EBMM of course also gives you the right to spout forth on the scariest and most cultish forum on earth, apparently[/quote] Lol - I'm guessing you mean the EBMM forum which does seem to have a very scary reputation - but honestly, the worst you're likely to encounter there is someone mistaking The Shadows for The Ventures (sacrilege in some people's view!!), or perhaps ignoring you - but Talkbass.........well it seems you're likely to be savaged at a hundred yards if you don't concur with commonly held views that a vintage Fender is the epitomy of modern electric bass and everything else has in-built design, style or sound faults which must be exposed and debated until the opposition is quelled!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='sime17' timestamp='1341874477' post='1725646'] Thanks Mr. I loved my old Bart loaded 55-02, it was a class act and really nicely put together, just a bit too 'polite'. She now belongs to BC's own mr Chardbass. Not tried the Lakland 01s at all though, or a G&L for that matter, hmmmm... [/quote] I was seriously close to a 55-01 (? 5 string with soap bars) when buying my first 5, very smooth and I really just wanted a 5 string version on my now traded much loved SR4 hence the 2010 SR5, other than that I would of gone for the Lakland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1341870142' post='1725544'] Nice post sime17 I have gas for both the Lakland and G&L, the Laklands don't have quite as much bite as a Ray IMO but they have a cracking range of useable tones and match the EBMM for build quality, great basses. [/quote] I chucked a 44-02 in for my '95 Ray. Great bass, super-light and really nicely put together. You could honestly play if all day and not know you'd been playing. Just far too polite on the bridge pick-up solo'ed. Doesn't do the Ray sound, in short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebuckets Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Just sold 2 rays (fretted and fret less) to pay for a new amp and cab and picked up a near new basic with the change. No it's not a ray but it is a very high quality bass. I've had numerous fenders jazz and pbass both USA and Jap. And this is up there in sound and build quality. Its a lot lighter and perfectly balanced with a fast neck. The rays were superb with top quality of build. I'm missing my fret less but like to try new gear on my search of bass nirvana! But when I can play my 'berg like vlad I'll move on to something 'better' If a ray is really what your after you won't be disappointed but if your open to something a little different then sandberg will deliver as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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