Can anyone help identify who made my Rickenbacker copy?

[justjazz]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here.

I bought this Bass from Tim Gentle Music in Southend around 1984. Soon afterwards it went up into my loft and it has been there ever since.

I chose it because it had such great tone and the action was so fast, so smooth, so nice. It is a very good quality copy and remains in excelent condition although it needs a good clean after all these years.

It would be good to identify the maker.

If you can help me with any clues (choice of components, little tricks, manufacturing oddities) so that I can identify it properly I would be grateful.

Thanks

Boot

[xilddx]

SHUSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Mr Hall is watching!

[xilddx]

I definitely recognise those tuners, can't remember from what though.

EDIT: Shaftsbury? [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/64502-shaftesbury-rickenbacker-bass-copies/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/64502-shaftesbury-rickenbacker-bass-copies/[/url]

Edited July 9, 2012 by silddx

[charic]

You should try rickresource

Note: Unless you just want to laugh at their outraged responses I actually wouldn't... but if you do, please link it so we can watch!

[SlapbassSteve]

Looks very similar to my Hondo II, though the bridge pup is further forward on yours...

Edited July 9, 2012 by SlapbassSteve

[Gust0o]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1341841379' post='1724926']
You should try rickresource
[/quote]

I'll give you a quid if you do. Post screenshots here

[BigRedX]

Was it new or second-hand when you bought it?

The problem with identifying Far Eastern copies is that the name that was on the headstock and place where they were manufactured change depending on the year. Most "brand" names were those of the importers rather than the manufacturers and the actual factory that the instruments were made in depended on who was doing the best deal for a certain level of quality at the time.

In order for those with the knowledge to have a go at identifying it you'll need to post much bigger and better photos, showing in detail all the hardware, the body binding, the fingerboard inlays etc. And most important of all is it a bolt on neck?

[Ou7shined]

I would have thought it's going to be near impossible to ID it fully. Rumour has it that quite a few copies are doing the rounds as real ones and no one is any the wiser.

[Mr. Foxen]

Same tuners as my CMI. Looks basically the same too.

[Stacker]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1341843701' post='1724977']
I'll give you a quid if you do. Post screenshots here
[/quote]

Yep, me too! Go for it, this weather is getting me down and I need a lift!

[justjazz]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1341846412' post='1725020']
Was it new or second-hand when you bought it?

The problem with identifying Far Eastern copies is that the name that was on the headstock and place where they were manufactured change depending on the year. Most "brand" names were those of the importers rather than the manufacturers and the actual factory that the instruments were made in depended on who was doing the best deal for a certain level of quality at the time.

In order for those with the knowledge to have a go at identifying it you'll need to post much bigger and better photos, showing in detail all the hardware, the body binding, the fingerboard inlays etc. And most important of all is it a bolt on neck?
[/quote]
[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]Thanks for the intelligent response,[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]It was second hand when I bought it. Only 1 or 2 years old so dating it to around 1982.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]It has a a glued in neck.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]Here are tons of pics showing hardware, binding, markers and T/R Cover. Maybe of interest that the TR Cover appeaers to have had an oval transfer in Gold about 50mms wide but I can't see any script, logo or writing on it!![/size][/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]Any help you can give would be much appreciated. [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][size=4]Alan [/size][/font][/color]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='justjazz' timestamp='1341835389' post='1724729']
Hi everyone, this is my first post here.

I bought this Bass from Tim Gentle Music in Southend around 1984. Soon afterwards it went up into my loft and it has been there ever since.

I chose it because it had such great tone and the action was so fast, so smooth, so nice. It is a very good quality copy
[/quote]

Was there an issue with it that made you put it into your loft "soon afterwards" when it's such a good bass?

[Musky]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/64691-shaftesbury-bass-second-try/"]A link[/url] in the thread Silddx highlighted has a bit more info on Shaftesbury from Jon, who was a mine of information on Rickenfakers.

Yours has the brass hex nut mentioned in the thread, so if it also has a sandwich body there's a good chance it came from the same factory as the Shaftesbury's. So at least you'll know it's MIJ, even if the the brand name and factory are likely to remain a mystery.

[Adrenochrome]

The tuners, through-neck and general appearance are very similar to a Shaftesbury I had.

[noelk27]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1342477766' post='1736011']So at least you'll know it's MIJ[/quote]
Or MIK, as certain of the Japanese factories had satellite facilities in South Korea, and vice versa.

[Musky]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1342480451' post='1736061']
Or MIK, as certain of the Japanese factories had satellite facilities in South Korea, and vice versa.
[/quote]
I never knew that. Though obviously there were various brands, like Hondo, which although usually made in Korea did produce a few models in Japan.

So would the satellite facilities be producing otherwise identical models, presumably apart from any MIJ markings? And which factories are known to have done this?

[justjazz]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342474164' post='1735913']
Was there an issue with it that made you put it into your loft "soon afterwards" when it's such a good bass?
[/quote][size=4][font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][color=#008080]I just thought I would concentrate on playing jazz guitar and get back to the bass later. I never did!![/color][/font][/size]

[noelk27]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1342510543' post='1736190']I never knew that. Though obviously there were various brands, like Hondo, which although usually made in Korea did produce a few models in Japan.

So would the satellite facilities be producing otherwise identical models, presumably apart from any MIJ markings? And which factories are known to have done this?[/quote]
Well, Hondo is a brand, not a manufacturer. The manufacturer of Hondo/Hondo II branded instruments was Samick, which had its main facilities in South Korea, but also operated a facility in Japan. There are many who suggest Tokai produced MIJ Hondo, although there is not a lot of hard evidence to support that. One of the main Japanese manufacturers operated the other way, with a subsidiary facility in Korea was Tokai, with others including ESP and Kawai.

After the closure of the Matsumoku facilities, and the first phase of production by FujiGen, Samick was responsible for manufacturing for Aria. It produced in both Korea and Japan, and while doing this it's known that Samick did not put serial numbers on its output, between '89 and '92, except for those instruments where a sticker was put under bridge assemblies. Oddly Tokai adopted a similar approach with some of the models it produced in Korea, not marking the product MIK or adding serial numbers. This approach can also be found on Washburn branded instruments produced between '88 and '92/'93.

Edited July 17, 2012 by noelk27

[Musky]

I didn't realise that Hondo was just a brand either! I'm rubbish at all the ins and outs of this Japcrap lark.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Musky

[noelk27]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1342557325' post='1737134']I didn't realise that Hondo was just a brand either! I'm rubbish at all the ins and outs of this Japcrap lark. [/quote]
The original "Hondo" was the "brand name" under which the International Music Corp (IMC) and Samick (SMI) joint venture operated. It was a corporate entity in its own right, but it didn't own any facilities, and was initially a distribution agreement before being an own-branding manufacturing venture.

[justjazz]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1342565631' post='1737304']
The original "Hondo" was the "brand name" under which the International Music Corp (IMC) and Samick (SMI) joint venture operated. It was a corporate entity in its own right, but it didn't own any facilities, and was initially a distribution agreement before being an own-branding manufacturing venture.
[/quote][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#008080]Noel, you are well informed. What do you make of my Bass? .... and what more can I do to identify it?. Is it likely there will be any marks or labels hidden beneath components? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.[/color][/size][/font]

[noelk27]

Probably 4001. Probably '70s. Probably Japanese. Given that the group of Japanese factories making Ric copies were buying in hardware and components from the same sources it's incredibly difficult to say with absolute certainty where any Ric copy was made. You can pin things down to possible sub-groups, such as those factories which were known to use Maxon pickups, so if the pickups have any of the markings known to be used by Maxon ... The TRC could have been of assistance, if it had a factory name, but not if it had an own-brander mark. The own-branders, such as Ross Morris, bought from multiple sources. Yours appears to be a neck-through, which is a sign of quality. Lots are bolt-on. A couple of the bigger factories doing neck-through were FujiGen (for Ibanez) and Matsumoku (for Aria). But both those factories were known to serial number their production, so it's unlikely to be either of those facilities. But even that's by no means definitive. The main sources of information will be pickups and pots, if these are original.

Edited July 18, 2012 by noelk27

[justjazz]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1342611192' post='1737790']
Probably 4001. Probably '70s. Probably Japanese. Given that the group of Japanese factories making Ric copies were buying in hardware and components from the same sources it's incredibly difficult to say with absolute certainty where any Ric copy was made. You can pin things down to possible sub-groups, such as those factories which were known to use Maxon pickups, so if the pickups have any of the markings known to be used by Maxon ... The TRC could have been of assistance, if it had a factory name, but not if it had an own-brander mark. The own-branders, such as Ross Morris, bought from multiple sources. Yours appears to be a neck-through, which is a sign of quality. Lots are bolt-on. A couple of the bigger factories doing neck-through were FujiGen (for Ibanez) and Matsumoku (for Aria). But both those factories were known to serial number their production, so it's unlikely to be either of those facilities. But even that's by no means definitive. The main sources of information will be pickups and pots, if these are original.
[/quote][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#008080] Thanks Noel, Can you give me some idea of its value please. It is in very good condition and plays really well. Good tone - quite pure if you play it gently. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks[/color][/size][/font]