Adding a 2nd Barefaced Compact (or midget)... what will I get?

[1970]

Looking for some opinions from folk who have doubled up on barefaced compact, is it worth doubling up or adding a midget? How much more bang do you get when adding a second one? I played a decent sized room (first show with BFC) on the weekend and loved the sound on stage but found that I couldn't quite push it as hard as I might have wanted to. Best to have more power in reserves than to rely too much on PA I think.

Amp is a Matamp GT200.

[1970]

Maybe this is unclear, not really wanting to know compact vs midget, but wanting to know the benefits of adding a 2nd BF cabinet. THANKS.

Edited July 10, 2012 by 1970

[bremen]

Adding a second identical cabinet is generally worth doing if you use them close together as the acoustic coupling gives 'free' SPL. Ask Bill Fitzmaurice, he knows.

[chris_b]

If you like the sound of one cab but need more then 2 cabs is definitely the way to go.

I don't know the Midget, but I've heard and briefly played through 2 Compacts and they sounded great.

Would a Super15 sound better or even the 69er? I'm sure Alex would be able to help.

[1970]

How much more volume do you think I would get? From the range of 'not much' to 'a veritable shedload'?

[Conan]

I've never heard of any BF cab struggling to keep up with any amp! Is the cab still quite new? Maybe the speaker needs to "relax" a bit more...

As the Compact is rated at 8 ohms, one advantage would be that you would get the full output from your amp. Not that that will make a massive difference to volume though. And you say that the cab is "struggling" as it is?! Maybe there is a fault somewhere?

Two compacts is a pretty awesome setup, and probably logical if you already have one. Another option would be to sell yours and get a bigger BF cab with more speakers in it!

[Conan]

[quote name='1970' timestamp='1341914247' post='1725938']
How much more volume do you think I would get? From the range of 'not much' to 'a veritable shedload'?
[/quote]

Is it purely "volume" you want? As I say, I've never heard of a compact struggling for volume. But where is it positioned? If it is on the floor and you are a tall chap, maybe you are not hearing it properly? Your audience could be getting deafened!

From the BF site:

"[i]Valve amps are nothing like solidstate amps. Getting maximum power out of them relies on matching the output transformer tap's impedance with the cab's impedance as closely as possible. However, a 4 ohm or 8 ohm cab is actually only nominally 4 or 8 ohm. The actual impedance varies hugely across the frequency range. The more this varies from the nominal impedance, the harder a time your valve amp has producing its full power. It may even shorten the life of the power valves[/i]."

Edited July 10, 2012 by Conan

[1970]

It's a whole new rig for me (though the BF is well used), maybe it was just the punch from amp/instrument that I was hearing when I drove it quite hard. It tended to get a bit flappy when I really pushed it, but come to think of it that could just be the sound of the rickenbacker... To my ears, it sounded like the cab wasn't 'keeping up' with the amp when I pushed it hard. Which I guess is to say that I prefered the sound and responsiveness of it on medium volumes, compared to at higher levels.

Edited July 10, 2012 by 1970

[Conan]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1341913824' post='1725933']
I'm sure Alex would be able to help.
[/quote]

This. ^

[bremen]

[quote name='1970' timestamp='1341914794' post='1725949']
it sounded like the cab wasn't 'keeping up' with the amp when I pushed it hard.
[/quote]

Any BF cab can eat 200 watts for breakfast and still have room for a Full English.

[1970]

Noted. Next time it goes up to 11.

[chris_b]

A Compact is good but it's still only 1 speaker trying to do everything.

At high volume I would always choose multiple speakers.

[bremen]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1341916190' post='1725983']
A Compact is good but it's still only 1 speaker trying to do everything.

At high volume I would always choose multiple speakers.
[/quote]

Yes, I'd choose multiple BFs ;-)

[1970]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1341916190' post='1725983']
A Compact is good but it's still only 1 speaker trying to do everything.
[/quote]

This is exactly how I feel.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='1970' timestamp='1341916435' post='1725994']
This is exactly how I feel.
[/quote]

While I agree it's one cone.... I think it's a question of sensitivity, power handling and frequency response. At high volumes the single speaker will do as well as two smaller equivalent ones... with different polar response.
All systems have their limits... The compact is not intended for stupid loud (like the BF Big Twin ).

If you look at the feedback pages Alex has advised people on exactly this conundrum... see
[b] Dual Compacts - 27th September (UK)[/b]

[b] [font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#000000"][size=3]at [/size][/color][/font][url="http://barefacedbass.com/customer-feedback/2011-sept---dec.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/customer-feedback/2011-sept---dec.htm[/url][/b]


whoa the fonts went all funny

[Lozz196]

I bought a BF Compact, and, used on it`s own, it wasn`t enough for me in depth of sound, although plenty loud enough. I added a Midget, and the whole thing came alive. Really great setup - the Midget added bite to the sound, plus height, so it was much easier to hear.

[RandomBass]

The Dual Compacts feedback was mine, funnily enough. I originally went the route of adding a Midget to my Compact but didnt really get on with the tonal shift, so I sold the Midget and got another Compact. The combination is very nice indeed - obviously headroom galore, and better height on stage. However I found just one Compact was enough for everything I need right now so the other one left a couple of months ago. However I'd get another one instantly if my needs change.
My advice is to first contact Alex for his sterling knowledge. You can buy and try a compact for a month!
Cheers
Geoff

[ern500evo]

My wife's cousin is a pro bassist, he was recently rehearsing for a tour and his GK rig was in being serviced so he borrowed a MB800 and 2 BF compacts and it sounded immense!

[Kirky]

Where are you? If you're anywhere near me your welcome to try my Compact in conjuction with yours. I'm currently using a second 15" cab (a trace Elliot) along with my Compact to get the full 4 ohms and even that makes a big difference. Will be placing an order to Compact No 2 soon...

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1341941557' post='1726692']
I bought a BF Compact, and, used on it`s own, it wasn`t enough for me in depth of sound, although plenty loud enough. I added a Midget, and the whole thing came alive. Really great setup - the Midget added bite to the sound, plus height, so it was much easier to hear.
[/quote]

Makes sense... I have to tilt my combo or put it on a chair to get good results... the compact will probably be the same... It's doable. The Midget T has a seriously extended range... and Alex and others describe the midget / Super 12 12" cone(s) as being more punchy in those configurations than the compact / super 15....

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1341943554' post='1726774']
The Dual Compacts feedback was mine, funnily enough. I originally went the route of adding a Midget to my Compact but didnt really get on with the tonal shift, so I sold the Midget and got another Compact. The combination is very nice indeed - obviously headroom galore, and better height on stage. However I found just one Compact was enough for everything I need right now so the other one left a couple of months ago. However I'd get another one instantly if my needs change.
My advice is to first contact Alex for his sterling knowledge. You can buy and try a compact for a month!
Cheers
Geoff
[/quote]

Yup. Barefaced has a cool policy. It's one reason I'm going to give a compact a whirl. Oh and 12kg......

[3below]

In a similar but related scenario. I had a BF Big One, loud with Peavey tour 700, about 500W to 600W into Big One. Yes I know Watts does not equal loudness, I am a Physicist / Engineer in day job. I always felt I wanted a Crown/QSC 2KW power amp with Big One, low, loud and clean. Moving on, courtesy of Rasta (excellent chap) I came by a BF Dubster. The second 3015LF makes a noticeable difference. Yes the amp gives more power - 700W at 4 ohms, but the whole setup just seems to give more. Has stopped feeling the need for 2KW power amp. Incidentally, Alex's website states Dubster lacks treble, I do not find this so, seems to have plenty of twang and clank if I need it. Two Eminence 3015LFs or 3015 in correct cab - bass players dream.

Edited July 10, 2012 by 3below

[1970]

Thanks everyone, I'm pretty sold on adding another one... My ampeg HLF 410 will remain firmly in the studio I think.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1341957387' post='1727161']
In a similar but related scenario. I had a BF Big One, loud with Peavey tour 700, about 500W to 600W into Big One. Yes I know Watts does not equal loudness, I am a Physicist / Engineer in day job. I always felt I wanted a Crown/QSC 2KW power amp with Big One, low, loud and clean. Moving on, courtesy of Rasta (excellent chap) I came by a BF Dubster. The second 3015LF makes a noticeable difference. Yes the amp gives more power - 700W at 4 ohms, but the whole setup just seems to give more. Has stopped feeling the need for 2KW power amp. Incidentally, Alex's website states Dubster lacks treble, I do not find this so, seems to have plenty of twang and clank if I need it. Two Eminence 3015LFs or 3015 in correct cab - bass players dream.
[/quote]

I think Alex has a policy of being fairly neutral in the Barefaced documentation... The 3 way barefaced cabs have as complete a range as almost any cab, he notes the 2 ways are less so... and the 1 ways less again. Some people have bass needs that include a tweeter.
I'd agree the dubster has (judging by the specs) has some mids, even upper mids ... I think clank is subjective. However when he quotes 30 - 1,500 Hz he clearly states 'Usable frequency range' indicating it can go somewhat outside this range, but not in a terribly useful way (not at volume).