Are very expensive pickups worth it?

[Kesh]

Am replacing my pickups (P/J configuration) and electrics on a bass that is very playable, but has a lacklustre sound to it. Am going for passive circuit and vintage sound. It seems I can pay anywhere from £40 (say a wilkinson set) to £230 (Nordstrand or Fralin).

Can you really get that much more value out of what is just copper wire and alnico magnets? Or is it like when they blind tasted wine with some wine experts and they couldn't tell cheap from expensive?

Before I part with my money I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

And hello (it's my first post).

[chris_b]

Expensive pickups can be worth it if you can hear a difference.

To me a tin of Heinz Baked Beans tastes better than Tesco Value Beans but Tesco sells a lot of beans, so what do I know?

I don't know Wilkinson pickups but generally I think you get what you pay for. The deciding factor is can you tell the difference.

[lettsguitars]

Scatterwound pickups are worth paying for. As for the general factory runs, I think you know the answer already.

[Kesh]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1342001247' post='1727637']
Scatterwound pickups are worth paying for. As for the general factory runs, I think you know the answer already.
[/quote]It's pretty easy to reproduce scatter wounds with a machine. That's what Nordstrand do.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1342001246' post='1727636']
Expensive pickups can be worth it if you can hear a difference.

To me a tin of Heinz Baked Beans tastes better than Tesco Value Beans but Tesco sells a lot of beans, so what do I know?
[/quote]Agree with the first comment. But I know how much we are influenced by what we hope for and expect. Musical placebo effect. As for the beans, with the pickups I'm considering, the ingredients and recipe are pretty much the same.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Kesh

[chrismuzz]

Many different pickups will sound different to one another, its up to you to decide whether it's better or not as tone is subjective. Personally I think SD Basslines are very good value though they tend to have a bit of a mid scoop. Nordstrands are bloody great, nice and clear or aggressive if you go for their Big Singles... I almost got some last year... To be honest though I think you could get better value for your money. Wizards get a good rep...

[LukeFRC]

I would do a couple of things....
with newish strings play the bass unplugged, how does it sound.
stick your ear on the upper horn and play (careful, it will be loud) how does it sound.

If what you hear unplugged sounds a bit lacklustre then the main problem isn't the pickups, it's just you think the sound your bass makes... really pickups are only going to amplify this. Esp when you get to some of the really expensive pickups.

I recommend telling us a bit about the bass, what you play it through and what kind of music you play. Then what you want it to sound like.
Then look secondhand and try some stuff.
and lots of people here will tell you to give wizard pickups a call

[Kesh]

Thanks for the tips about Wizards, they look very interesting and good value.

My bass sounds fine unplugged. I have some new(ish) flats on it (La Bella). I found it in a junk shop and god knows what it is, somebody's abandoned project I guess. The neck says Peavey, rosewood fretboard and maple neck, but the body I've no idea. Not any Peavey I can see. If I scrape the shielding paint off I might figure out what wood it is.

I play in an i dunno, arty band? We have a definite leader and he's pretty much ordered me to go for a Jamerson sound (which I'm more than happy to do).

Oh the amp is an Ashdown ABM and sounds great.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Kesh

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1342002171' post='1727664']
I would do a couple of things....
with newish strings play the bass unplugged, how does it sound.
stick your ear on the upper horn and play (careful, it will be loud) how does it sound.
[/quote]

This is good advice that often gets overlooked

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Kesh' timestamp='1342002932' post='1727698']
Thanks for the tips about Wizards, they look very interesting and good value.

My bass sounds fine unplugged. I have some new(ish) flats on it (La Bella). I found it in a junk shop and god knows what it is, somebody's abandoned project I guess. The neck says Peavey, rosewood fretboard and maple neck, but the body I've no idea. Not any Peavey I can see. If I scrape the shielding paint off I might figure out what wood it is.

I play in an i dunno, arty band? We have a definite leader and he's pretty much ordered me to go for a Jamerson sound (which I'm more than happy to do).

Oh the amp is an Ashdown ABM and sounds great.
[/quote]

show us some pictures of it! sounds interesting

[BigRedX]

Replacement pickups are only worth it if you think they have improved your bass. That is entirely subjective.

Two examples:

I used to own a mid-priced Washburn 5-string bass made in the late 80s. It was an OK playing instrument, but I felt the tone was a little lacking so I went ought a bought a set of active EMG pickups that were all the rage at the time. Honestly I can say they made zero difference to the sound of the bass, so a complete waste of £100.

I have an Hohner electric 12 string guitar. The pickups on it are weird lipstick tubes with a very low output that in theory should be totally crap. However for this particular guitar they are exactly what I want - a perfect shimmery 12-string sound. Anything with a more normal higher output wouldn't have the correct subtlety.

The problem is that that good tone is totally subjective and there's no real way of knowing if a replacement pickup is going to be better without trying it.

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='Kesh' timestamp='1342001704' post='1727652']
It's pretty easy to reproduce scatter wounds with a machine. That's what Nordstrand do.
[/quote]
Exactly. Scatterwound pickups are worth paying extra. The question as I see it is not are these/those pickups worth the money, very few things are, but rather, how do i/you find a good sound that is your own? Maybe buying the bits and winding your own. This way is more exciting, it isn't hard and the results will always be satisfying and chances are you'll love the tone as you created it yourself. Dont let anyone tell you that things have to be a certain way because so and so from such and such has the same setup. It's nonsense really. If you have to buy pickups made in china based on a low budget i wouldn't have high expectations. Expensive pickups are just that, expensive but made the same way as they have been made for the past 60 or so years. Computers with 0 tolerances and a good marketing dep dont make better products. Most people will believe what you tell them if you tell them what they want to hear. A quality bass with well made pickups will give you a better chance at acheiving the sound your after. The rest comes down to your ability to produce the sound you want from ANY instrument through technique. Coil shapes and different magnets produce different characteristics (?). Research this and buy a well constructed pickup based on these facts. You will get what you pay for but this doesn't mean the more you pay the more you get. This is the gospel according Jon Letts. Not God's own word. Just opinions not facts.

[jj1234]

i noticed a very stark difference in pickup quality between my american deluxe jazz and my nordy -- obviously the nordy sounds better unplugged too, but plugged in, the sounds are just so much more usable. no extra high harsh treble, fuller lows and present but nice mids. part of that could have been the difference between the noiseless fender pickups and the true single coil nordy ones too. but the point is, i noticed a clear difference which increased how willing I was to explore the various sounds available.

[uncle psychosis]

Depends.

I think there is a lot of snake oil and placebo effect in action when it comes to pickups. For some people, its worth it---for others, not so much.

For what its worth, I have a jazz bass with Wilkinson pickups and it sounds awesome. I also used to own a Japanese telecaster with Bareknuckle pickups. It also sounded awesome.

My own personal bias is that for playing live---especially on bass---really expensive pickups aren't worth it. But others may disagree, and thats cool.

[Johngh]

My Geddy jazz has Fralins in it and they are a massive improvement over the originals, they have added a great deal of punch to the sound, and sound great wherever you play on the neck

[Kesh]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1342019203' post='1728203']
Depends.

I think there is a lot of snake oil and placebo effect in action when it comes to pickups. For some people, its worth it---for others, not so much.
[/quote]Yes. If you pay £200+ for a pair of handwound pickups with their associated mystique, you are probably going to subconsciously convince yourself they sound great even if they don't.

[KiOgon]

I'm a great DiMarzio supporter, I reckon they're better than most apart from the mega bucks maybe. When I play my '57 with the DP127 it just blows the other P's out of the room!

But it's all very personal innit! IMHO, YHMV, IME & all that depends on the amp too IYAM.

[LukeFRC]

I think it's important to point out, that especially when you get to the high end stuff that the pickup makers are going for different things.
If you want the best copy of a 1960's Jazz bass sound you will go for one thing,
want super articulate another
a real middy ness another,
one will sound big, the other thin

so it gets to the point of what do you want, and what will fit the bass they are going into (i still want to see pictures of the bass! )
DiMarzio's are great at what they do, Nordstand are great at what they do.
But you don't need to spend big bucks to get good pups, depending on what you want

[Ou7shined]

It depends on your ears. I know bassists who can't tell the difference between makes of bass let alone the components used yet they will go ahead and tell you such and such sounds punchy or has more mids etc. etc.. When gauging this sort of thing you need to go into it with an open mind (in fact a fair degree of scepticism is advisable) and grip on reality. I am very pro "expensive" pups because time after time it has been proven to me that you can tell the difference... and that difference isn't as slight or subjective as tone woods or something either. What they always bring is an extra dimension or layer to the tone which those produced on the cheap can't. If you disagree with this fine, go stick a £10 set of pups off ebay in your bass and we'll say no more.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Ou7shined

[Johngh]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1342038417' post='1728664']
It depends on your ears. I know bassists who can't tell the difference between makes of bass let alone the components used yet they will go ahead and tell you such and such sounds punchy or has more mids etc. etc.. When gauging this sort of thing you need to go into it with an open mind (in fact a fair degree of scepticism is advisable) and grip on reality. I am very pro "expensive" pups because time after time it has been proven to me that you can tell the difference... and that difference isn't as slight or subjective as tone woods or something either. [b]What they always bring is an extra dimension or layer to the tone[/b] which those produced on the cheap can't. If you disagree with this fine, go stick a £10 set of pups off ebay in your bass and we'll say no more.
[/quote]

That's it, that's the phrase I was looking for to describe the fralin's on the Geddy

[pauliebe]

I have played the swap out PU game on many basses over the years. IMO I don't think that it really changes the sound all that much. I think you can affect small tonal responses but my experience is that if you are looking for more than a small shift in sound, you will need to find another instrument. It is a fun journey tho. I still take it myself...

p.s. I also feel that expensive does not equal better. I have gotten some of my best recorded tones from a cheap microphonic, noisy Vox Apollo IV pickup.

Edited July 11, 2012 by pauliebe

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Johngh' timestamp='1342038642' post='1728672']
That's it, that's the phrase I was looking for to describe the fralin's on the Geddy
[/quote]

Yep Fralin's are a particularly good example.

[essexbasscat]

Is it easy to consider pickups in isolation from the other points of the triangle i.e the speaker and amp ?

I'm finding over time (aren't bass bashes wonderful ideas ?) that different amps and cabs have different bandwidth characteristics i.e this rig may express more bottom end, that rig's mids are a bit harsh, yada yada.....

If I have the opportunity to test a given set of pickups through many different rigs, I'll probably have a more informed idea about the inherent sound of the pickups, but I'm keeping an open mind on this one.

[chris_b]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1342043104' post='1728783']
....Is it easy to consider pickups in isolation from the other points of the triangle i.e the speaker and amp....
[/quote]

….and the other point of the triangle, the bass.


Expensive components on a cheap bass will probably not reach their potential.

[Kiwi]

My experience is at odds with my aspirations.

Would love for pickups to be more than they actually are. But I've tried so many over the years (expensive and cheap) and there's not a lot of difference. They're a fairly crude way to manage tone and character still comes down to the instrument and how you play it.

I'd really like to try a set of Lollar jazz pickups though, all the same.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1342043104' post='1728783']...
If I have the opportunity to test a given set of pickups through many different rigs, I'll probably have a more informed idea about the inherent sound of the pickups, but I'm keeping an open mind on this one.
[/quote]

That's so true. How many pups have been lucky enough to have been auditioned through a transparent sounding rig... how many have been rejected because of the amp or cabs characteristics being more dominant?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Ou7shined