How to Practice?

[wishface]

There are so many things, so many exercises, so many aspects to work on, how do you develop a decent practice routine and not just widdle away your time?

For instance I am trying to build up speed and dexterity along with a consistent right hand technique. I practise going up the neck across all four strings in, say, the key of G, in a different mode playing straight up, then in thirds, fifths, sixths and then arpeggios. That seems to me to cover everything.

I also have the BAss Fitness book I brought years ago which itself has a ton of exercises. 200 of them; it recommends taking 15 minutes per exercise (that would be about 50 hours worth).

How do you build a realistic effective practice session to work on things like this?

[Faithless]

http://www.joehubbardbass.com/798/how-to-practice-the-bass-guitar-effectively/

As for neede of those Bass Fitness things, read this:

http://www.joehubbardbass.com/494/finger-dexterity-exercises-for-bass-guitar/#comment-299

take care,
L

[wishface]

That's great, but what does he recommend? Practise scales?


How do you develop technique if you don't focus on technical issues, such as finger dexterity?

[Coilte]

I think your best bet is to get a teacher to point you in the right direction. He/she can check out your playing and advise accordingly. If you cant afford a teacher then I suggest that you start at the very begiinning of this site and work your way through it. It has been said that it takes 10,000 hours of wood shedding to become reasonably efficient on the bass.

Site : www.studybass.com

[Coilte]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342354499' post='1733591']
That's great, but what does he recommend? Practise scales?


How do you develop technique if you don't focus on technical issues, such as finger dexterity?
[/quote]

You need to focus on every aspect of playing. From a theory point of view I recommend working on CHORD TONES. Check them out on the site I posted earlier.

[wishface]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1342355257' post='1733610']
You need to focus on every aspect of playing. From a theory point of view I recommend working on CHORD TONES. Check them out on the site I posted earlier.
[/quote]I'm interested in improvign my technique at the moment. Learning theory isn't what I want to do at the moment. I have a decent enough knwoledge of chords/tones/scales for now.

Edited July 15, 2012 by wishface

[Coilte]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342362340' post='1733709']
I'm interested in improvign my technique at the moment.
[/quote]

In that case, my original suggestion of a teacher is a good one. If you cant afford that, then there are 100's of clips on You Tube for all kinds of technique. Google "Scott Devine bass lessons". Great all round site, including technique.

Here is another;

[url="http://www.musictrainer.com/lessons/bass/"]http://www.musictrainer.com/lessons/bass/[/url]

[wishface]

Well, that was my original point: lack of exercises isn't the problem. Most effecient way to spend your time is.

I've spent 6 hours practicing today. Not a problem per se, but I want to know that I'm doing so effectively.

I spent the first two hours doing the first part of Bass Fitness.
Then I did some slap bass exercises (largely of my own devising based on the ed friedland dvd
Then I did some scales going up in various intervals in the key of G across the neck.

Each of those two hour instances had a couple of hours rest inbetween. It wasn't all at once.

And the lessons on the above link are not working. Thanks anyway.

Edited July 15, 2012 by wishface

[Eggy]

Hi,
I have found that setting myself a regular schedule really helps concentrate. I have an hour a day and so spend 15 minutes each on
Scales
Arpeggios
Technique
Timing

And then practising songs after that.

I always try to use backing tracks with the relevant chord(s) for the scales & arpegs to try to develop my ear and groove at the same time. Think of a rhythm and play that to the tracks

As mentioned above, Scott's videos are really helpful

Regards

Eggy

[wishface]

[quote name='Eggy' timestamp='1342438570' post='1734809']
Hi,
I have found that setting myself a regular schedule really helps concentrate. I have an hour a day and so spend 15 minutes each on
Scales
Arpeggios
Technique
Timing

And then practising songs after that.

I always try to use backing tracks with the relevant chord(s) for the scales & arpegs to try to develop my ear and groove at the same time. Think of a rhythm and play that to the tracks

As mentioned above, Scott's videos are really helpful

Regards

Eggy
[/quote]what technique stuff do you practise, how?

[Eggy]

Hi,

As examples

Scales - Pick a scale practise it in three dif shapes (first finger, second and little finger lead) each in 3 positions on the neck. Great if you can have a loop of a chord strumming in the background to develop your ear

Arpeggio - play arpeggio thru a major scale say Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj G7 Am Bdim in 3 positions on neck.

Techniques - Depends on where your technique is. I am working on hammer on/ pull off three fingers and cross string descending speeds. Pick a topic, clean picking, muting, string skipping, dynamics whatever, set the metro and work away thru a scale or something making that the best you can

Timing - Sensible speed metronome, hit the whole, half quarter, eight, sixteenth, swing, triplet, off beats(2+4). Remember slow and really accurate. Try sixteenths missing one of the parts, 1 e + a missing the e for 4 bars then swap missing the a for 4, swap missing the + etc

Make a quick note of what you have done, inc metro speeds etc and you will know that you can set the bar a bit higher when ready. I forget what have done and so prob would revisit and so stand still.

Hope that helpful

Eggy

[wishface]

ok thanks.

I start with the metronome at the same speed each time. It goes as far as it can and that's it. I'm not sure about starting at a faster rate each time.

Edited July 18, 2012 by wishface

[matejj53]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1342375981' post='1733986']
In that case, my original suggestion of a teacher is a good one. If you cant afford that, then there are 100's of clips on You Tube for all kinds of technique. Google "Scott Devine bass lessons". Great all round site, including technique.

Here is another;

[url="http://www.musictrainer.com/lessons/bass/"]http://www.musictrai...m/lessons/bass/[/url]
[/quote]

I agree Scott Devine lessons are great. And there are lots of crap online but also really good exercises.I recommend you to also google many masterclasses like John Pattituci, practice at really slow tempos like 60 bpm, \I found really good exercise also john recommend get metronome at 35 bpm and play 1 note per beat just 4 notes from 15 minutes to half hour, pay attention to right hand....this is not most enjoyable but great exercise, you see results after practice. Great for concentration.
Look up John Pattituci Lessons there are not allot but are good. Remember practice as slow as you can and (really)concentrate at the beat that will improve your timing.

transcribe bass player you like: lines, try to play them that good than you will hear just one line on the cd or video so you play that line exactly

try to learn melodies from music you like forget just about bass lines, transcribe piano, guitar that improves your technique allot and also your hearing.

I recommend also james brown bass lines that will be great for your right hand. try to to all exercises with different techniques scales, finger, palm muting...etc

Make your own exercises

I recommend Janek Gwizdala online bass lessons too.

there are lots of good bass lessons but try to come with your own one for your own voice it is good to have own sound and know all the techniques.

I have seen that you have exercise book I heard it is very good but remember this exercises and practice them every day , or as much as you can and pick up those which you have trouble with try to not practice just ones you already great at. Those exercises are the ones to stick with you and if you don't like some try to change them to your own. those exercises are usual avery day practice tool for working bass player.

All of those people above have great exercises too so you have lots to practice ..

take care

Matt

[wishface]

Thanks.

Currently I am practicing strict alternation, no raking, even though that's what i would normally do. I'm told this is better.

But some people favour raking, despite the counter argument being that it's poor for fast 16th note type runs, or string skipping (which is a problem).

I'm really not sure what to think. Over the last several years I've developed a style that favours raking considerably. It's great fopr playing lines such as Jah Wobble's Visions of You. I get a fatter tone with my hands laying more flat across the string. But if I want to play alternating my hands want to dig in more which, although i'm certainly no expert, doesn't feel right. I don't know if this is just a matter of practice makes perfect (which is fine), or whether I'm contaminating my practice by using poor technique, and sabotaging myself without knowing. This is my biggest issue right now, and I don't know what I can do about it.

[Coilte]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342804295' post='1741337']
Thanks.

Currently I am practicing strict alternation, no raking, even though that's what i would normally do. I'm told this is better.

But some people favour raking, despite the counter argument being that it's poor for fast 16th note type runs, or string skipping (which is a problem).

I'm really not sure what to think. Over the last several years I've developed a style that favours raking considerably. It's great fopr playing lines such as Jah Wobble's Visions of You. I get a fatter tone with my hands laying more flat across the string. But if I want to play alternating my hands want to dig in more which, although i'm certainly no expert, doesn't feel right. I don't know if this is just a matter of practice makes perfect (which is fine), or whether I'm contaminating my practice by using poor technique, and sabotaging myself without knowing. This is my biggest issue right now, and I don't know what I can do about it.
[/quote]


The way I see it, you have two choices :

1. If you are happy using the raking technique and it does not hinder your tone or playing, then what's the problem ? Stick with it. No one is going to shoot you for doing so.


2. It is generally accepted that AP is the way to go. If you really want to master this, then practice it for as long as it takes to feel right, 'till your hands DONT want to dig in more, and it becomes second nature.

If you feel that raking is "contaminating" your practice, then option #2 is a no brain-er.

[wishface]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1342806031' post='1741366'] The way I see it, you have two choices : 1. If you are happy using the raking technique and it does not hinder your tone or playing, then what's the problem ? Stick with it. No one is going to shoot you for doing so. 2. It is generally accepted that AP is the way to go. If you really want to master this, then practice it for as long as it takes to feel right, 'till your hands DONT want to dig in more, and it becomes second nature. If you feel that raking is "contaminating" your practice, then option #2 is a no brain-er. [/quote]

Most people, I'm guessing, rake because they haven't learned or don't know any better. Assuming that AP is indeed more efficient.

However raking is also an efficient means to get around on adjacent strings and a lot of players use it. Both are as valid and as effective techniques as each other it seems to me, I may be wrong. I'm certainly not the expert.

So it isn't a question of disapproval (in fact i've just got back into a chris squire kick and 99% of them time when I jam along with pick players I use a pick - and I bloody well enjoy that too). It's a question of what's effective. Both are equal, for me. But when I practice, I try not to rake. That at least seems more effective. Raking, essentially, isn't taht difficult. It's a natural thing: when the plucking finger comes to rest it's on the string below so you're halfway there when it comes to playing a note on that string.

I like the style I have developed, but it's certainly not flawless! And i want to improve. That's why, over the past fortnight, i've gotten massively back into practicing (maybe too much, frankly. I give my hands a damn good workout!)

[Coilte]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342815298' post='1741549']
Most people, I'm guessing, rake because they haven't learned or don't know any better. Assuming that AP is indeed more efficient.

However raking is also an efficient means to get around on adjacent strings and a lot of players use it. Both are as valid and as effective techniques as each other it seems to me, I may be wrong. I'm certainly not the expert.

So it isn't a question of disapproval (in fact i've just got back into a chris squire kick and 99% of them time when I jam along with pick players I use a pick - and I bloody well enjoy that too). It's a question of what's effective. Both are equal, for me. But when I practice, I try not to rake. That at least seems more effective. Raking, essentially, isn't taht difficult. It's a natural thing: when the plucking finger comes to rest it's on the string below so you're halfway there when it comes to playing a note on that string.

I like the style I have developed, but it's certainly not flawless! And i want to improve. That's why, over the past fortnight, i've gotten massively back into practicing (maybe too much, frankly. I give my hands a damn good workout!)
[/quote]


You seem to have answered your own question in your above post. You have the raking technique down fairly well. You agree that both raking and AP are both efficient (which they are). You have not yet nailed the AP technique. So, in order to get the best of both worlds, again, I think option #2 in my earlier post is what you need.

You need to realise that there are no hard and fast rules. You seem to be getting by fine with raking, but want to learn the AP merely because you read somewhere that that's what you are SUPPOSED to.

Generally, AP is better on really fast passages, and raking is OK on slower ones. If you can happily play what you want with raking, then I dont see a problem. However, as you seem to want to upgrade, and improve your technique, then use option #2.

This way, you will have the best of both worlds, depending on what the music demands.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Coilte

[wishface]

Getting by is one thing. I'm trying to develop a better technique all round. Properly.

I've gotten where I am by fumbling my way through, i suspect that if i were ever in a recording studio getting by would be seen for what it is very quickly. So i need to really sort it all out, but that's actually quite difficult. There are many ways to play and what wors for some doesn't work for others. FOr instance I cannot concieve how people like Flea can play effectively with basses slung low, my wrists bend way too much to even reach the high notes like that.
Then there's the floating thumb, it sounds ideal, but it feels far too alien to me, and, more importantly, when it comes to string skipping and interval playing your thumb is in the way so you have to (afaik) move your arm/elbow.shoulder up and down like a piston which strikes me as very inefficient.
I've been trying to develop a floating anchor, which i suspect is how most people default to playing, but when i'm on the a string, i find my hand and thumb lift off the E string when playing on the G, which means that is prone to noise and sympathetic ringing. So again, it's all a bit of a botch job and I'm not really sure how to solve this.

I realise all this may make me sound like some OCD anally retentive loon, but I've been playing since about 1990 and it's really time to get it together. Some of these kids these days have learned technique that far outstrips mine in about half the time! That girl that plays with Jeff Beck just embarasses me! Never mind all the youtube bass athletes!

Edited July 21, 2012 by wishface

[Coilte]

Nothing wrong with wanting to learn, but in the end it is up to you to take on board all the advice, tips and information, and decide what is for you and what is not.

You say the FT is alien to you. How long have you being practicing it ? Naturally, something is going to be alien when you try it first. Only after about six months or so, of constantly trying and practicing something, are you in any position to decide if it is for you or not. Perhaps you have spent that amount of time. I dont know. Personally, it took a year for me to be comfortable with the FT. IMO it was worth the effort.

Anyway, I wish you luck and hope you decide soon on your preferred technique. Dont mind about other bassists and their talents. No matter who you are, there will always be someone better.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Coilte

[BassMan94]

Get the jaco dvd or off the web (yutube)

It isnt massivley into the theory side of things but man there are a load of excercises that will build up your technique. If i had got this when i first started I would be playing so much better. Just go through the Video and then start doing the excercises but dont rush (like me) and do one technique untill its perfect or have set days to do one technique and the other technique another day.

Overall great stuff, as usual.

Laslty, Id like to mention what was told to me, get a book/dvd or whatever tutorial thing you have and keep it ! dont start 1 and find another book, it just spoils what you are learning from one and the other book says its wrong.

So stick to your guns is what I should say

[wishface]

I've never heard about floating thumb before, not properly, until about a fortnight ago. In retrospect it actually explains how a lot of people I like play, well notably Steve Harris anyway. I could never work out how on earth how played the thing. Geezer Butler seems to have a similar technique in how he plucks, but he has a bizarre shaped thumb that seems anchored on the pickup regardless. He also really goes to town with his hand.
As far as I can manage, obviously I haven't played it for what you would consider long enough, but that's the problem isn't it. If i devote time to that technique that's time going back and completely starting afresh. Is that really worth it? Certainly there are plenty of players that don't use FT who get by so why can't I? Jaco didn't! (I'm sure that invoking his name is some kind of bass player's godwins law effect...)
I'm used to having my thumb anchored. IN fact it gives me leverage when i pluck. It's the whole opposable thumbs deal. I cannot play, certainly not right now, without that anchor. Sometimes that anchor is too tense and it's like you are almost pulling against your thumb, which I'm sure can't be natural.

[wishface]

[quote name='BassMan94' timestamp='1342883951' post='1742367'] Get the jaco dvd or off the web (yutube) It isnt massivley into the theory side of things but man there are a load of excercises that will build up your technique. If i had got this when i first started I would be playing so much better. Just go through the Video and then start doing the excercises but dont rush (like me) and do one technique untill its perfect or have set days to do one technique and the other technique another day. Overall great stuff, as usual. Laslty, Id like to mention what was told to me, get a book/dvd or whatever tutorial thing you have and keep it ! dont start 1 and find another book, it just spoils what you are learning from one and the other book says its wrong. So stick to your guns is what I should say [/quote]Do you mean the Jerry Jemmott interview video? I saw that years ago, a friend of mine that also played had it. I don't remember Jaco being at his best when that was filmed, I also don't remember it having a lot of technical stuff. I could never get the hang of his preferred style of right hand muting, it feels very unnatural. Maybe it's different if you got big hands like him, but it placed too much of a stretch on the tendons and limited the picking fingers.
I agree about the book comment. I have few books, mainly the Musicians Institute series, but they are on different topics including theory. But these are books i've had for years. The bass fitness book is the one I referred to earlier. I could do with some advice on how to approach that. Just working through the first part took two hours alone! The problem i have with that book is that it shoudl have been distilled into a bit size exercise you can fit into your routine, or at least to give advice on how to work it into a routine. Currently I spend most of my practice time using the metronome going over scales/modes (i think i've said this before) through different intervals including playing them as chord tones/arpeggios. That takes a lot of time, but it seems the best way to develop knowledge of notes, patterns, dexterity and all the rest of it.

[BassMan94]

If I tell you about my routine maybe you can get an idea of stuff to do

Scales/Modes I start off with everytime i sit and practice, this i do for around 30mins with metrenome. Also its worth writing the tempo you begin with, finish with.
Arpeggios in cycle of 4ths and 5ths this i do for 20 mins. with metrenome and writing my start/finish bpm.

With the scales and that I do the intervals as well so 3rds 4ths 6ths and so on. This is great for me to understand the intervals as well as the funny fingerings for the intervals, really warms your fingers up.

Then i start practicing certain aspects of bass playing, walking bass, its one of the things that I want to do freely as a bass player, so i spend quite a bit of time on that.

What else I practice is one random jazz standard and learn the melody of it just to mix up things and also not being stuck into playing basslines.

Ive also started to work quite abit of songs by ear to improve my "ear"as you would say. This is just for me being a well rounded musician but it wouldnt hurt if you did do it.

And lastly, if i cant remember what else i do, I learn a tune. At the momment im learning soul intro/the chicken and it is bloody hard, worth the challenge.

If anyone out there thinks my routine is bad or can add to what I do just tell me !

Hope this helps in some way ?

[wishface]

Thanks.

I'm beginning to think that spending 2 hours working on scales/modes/intervals as technique is excessive. But i can't thhink of any other way to build technique. It seems to cover all the dexterity you would need through intervals - never mind arpeggios. I haven't even done that today! Also it can be pretty hard going on the muscles. There's such a thing as overdoing it.

I need to find the right kind of routine, not just noodling away and thus getting nowhere (or rather, getting frustrated). But i have yet to see a bass exercise book/dvd that actually covers this. I will look into the John Pattituci stuff. He's a player I've never really listened to (i'm not a fan of fusion except the really old school stuff like Mahavishnu from way back in the day).

[wishface]

Ok this isn't working out at all.

I've spent two hours this morning doing scales/intervals and two hours in the afternoon on arpeggios. IN both cases using a matronome and increasing the tempo incrementally to push it as fast as I can play. My arm is starting to ache doing this so clearly this is bad practice, but I cannot find any other way to develop speed and dexterity.