How to Practice?

[BassMan94]

You know its better to do it in small chunks and increase ever so slightly every practice session. Obviously, like me I had an aching arm after constant scales but now I can play them with ease. I am by no means an expert player as I myself am currently learning but these tips really increase your playing greatly.

[wishface]

True, but i'm not sure how to do that in a way that achieves the same end. That's really what this thread is about.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342980614' post='1743398']
Ok this isn't working out at all.

I've spent two hours this morning doing scales/intervals and two hours in the afternoon on arpeggios. IN both cases using a matronome and increasing the tempo incrementally to push it as fast as I can play. My arm is starting to ache doing this so clearly this is bad practice, but I cannot find any other way to develop speed and dexterity.
[/quote]

The best way to develop good technique & speed is to practice everything slowly, (or at least a comfortable pace) and only when you've mastered it at a certain tempo, then increase it by a couple of clicks every day or every week. If you can only play a piece up to a certain tempo & no faster, there's no shame in it.

If your arm is aching, it might be a good idea to back off the pace & the amount of time you're practicing?

[Faithless]

Before you go one or other way, you should ask one question - what am I trying to achieve by doing this?

In other words, are you trying to become a 'technician' or a musician? I hope it's the latter one, and if it is, then let me tell you one thing - you don't need to isolate technique as such at ALL to become a good musician.
One of the criteria of being a good musician is to be able to play your instrument , no matter what it is, with ease.
Now, this implies 'technical' aspect but know this - ALL the tehnical difficulties that you face on your instrument can be solved by practicing MUSICAL content. You don't have to waste your time by practicing 'technical' exercises, because they won't improve your overall musicianship (apart from basic motor-skills) by one iota.

Here's a cool new vid from Jeff about this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK3_QzfVwHA&feature=g-u-u

take care,
L

[wishface]

I don't really want to get into a technique vs musicianship discussion, so I will just say this: I am aware that tehcnique isn't the end goal. But without it you get nowhere. Doesn't matter what the music is, if you can't play it or haven't learned how to play it so that you don't develop a poor technique (or in such a way that makes things difficult for yourself through bad fingerings or picking) you aren't learning anything but bad habits. As I've tried to make clear: I am trying to improve my technique right now. That is the goal right now.
I'm not really sure what alternative there is. I agree that learning technique musically is valuable and I am not suggesting doing endless noodling with chromatic exercises (even though I have a book full of them). I have been practi ing my scale exercises as those are musical - you are learning diatonically what to play and how to get there, through the various intervals. If there's a better way of doing this that doesn't involve busting your left arm then I'm open to learning it. I don't really know what else to do and a trip to Florida to study with Jeff Berlin isn't really on the cards

[Coilte]

While good technique is essential in the over all development as a bassist, IMO it is not good to isolate it to the detriment of other things. What is the use of having impeccable technique, if your timing is bad, for example ?

This guy (see link) seems to break every "rule" in the book as far as L/H technique is concerned. It has not had a negative effect on either his career or his playing. Ditto for Jack Bruce, who uses a similar type of L/H technique. When these two men started out, there was not such an emphasis on "good" technique. They were left to find their own, which they did.

Be aware that good technique is to your advantage, but dont get too hung up on it.


Link :

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFcsEtFIKA[/media]

Edited July 23, 2012 by Coilte

[Coilte]

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1342992080' post='1743645']
Before you go one or other way, you should ask one question - what am I trying to achieve by doing this?

In other words, are you trying to become a 'technician' or a musician? I hope it's the latter one, and if it is, then let me tell you one thing - you don't need to isolate technique as such at ALL to become a good musician.
One of the criteria of being a good musician is to be able to play your instrument , no matter what it is, with ease.
Now, this implies 'technical' aspect but know this - ALL the tehnical difficulties that you face on your instrument can be solved by practicing MUSICAL content. You don't have to waste your time by practicing 'technical' exercises, because they won't improve your overall musicianship (apart from basic motor-skills) by one iota.

[/quote]


I agree 100%.

[BassMan94]

If you can't find what to practice for technique etc etc. I'd say just do what Scott (scottsbasslessons) says on the technique tab, all those videos will help. I've tried them and yes they work but keep at it. Not at mega amounts of time, practice, noodle around, practice etc. Just not mega chunks.

Edited July 23, 2012 by BassMan94

[Commando Jack]

For a given technique, I found the fastest way to learn is to break it down into its simplest form, and practise slow enough that you can consciously keep an eye on whats going on. So for the alternate picking example, I would spend a little bit of time a day (or per hour) picking some patterns on the right hand with the left hand just muting the strings. That way you're concentrating on the mechanical action. Exercises such as 4 strokes on each string with a pattern E-A-E-D-E-G etc.

Btw, practising hours a day will not help you if you are not intensely concentrating - 15 minutes of intense concentration on an exercise or two will do you far more good than an hour's mindless repetition of the same exercise.

[wishface]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343039789' post='1744024'] While good technique is essential in the over all development as a bassist, IMO it is not good to isolate it to the detriment of other things. What is the use of having impeccable technique, if your timing is bad, for example ? This guy (see link) seems to break every "rule" in the book as far as L/H technique is concerned. It has not had a negative effect on either his career or his playing. Ditto for Jack Bruce, who uses a similar type of L/H technique. When these two men started out, there was not such an emphasis on "good" technique. They were left to find their own, which they did. Be aware that good technique is to your advantage, but dont get too hung up on it. [/quote]

I do understand this, and I don't want this thread to become sidetracked. There are plenty of people that play with l/h like that.
While it's always nice to see Paul play his bass, i'm not really looking for a discussion on the validity of technique vs musicianship. I'm looking for advice on how to improve my technique, preferrably not at the expense of my arm!

[wishface]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343039914' post='1744025'] I agree 100%. [/quote]it isn't one versus the other. I really had hoped I'd made that clear.

[wishface]

[quote name='Commando Jack' timestamp='1343047872' post='1744210'] For a given technique, I found the fastest way to learn is to break it down into its simplest form, and practise slow enough that you can consciously keep an eye on whats going on. So for the alternate picking example, I would spend a little bit of time a day (or per hour) picking some patterns on the right hand with the left hand just muting the strings. That way you're concentrating on the mechanical action. Exercises such as 4 strokes on each string with a pattern E-A-E-D-E-G etc. Btw, practising hours a day will not help you if you are not intensely concentrating - 15 minutes of intense concentration on an exercise or two will do you far more good than an hour's mindless repetition of the same exercise. [/quote]

Understood.

How then do you work towards increasing tempo and thus dexterity/speed?

I have been working under the assumption that you start, each session, at a given tempo (in this case 60bpm) and during the session increase it, slowly (and hopefully) over time increasing that limit. Obviously starting each session at the max speed from before would be unwise so of course each session takes a long time. This may sound a stupid way to practice to some but that is why I am posting! I don't know any other way of doing this (not online either, not on youtube or through google).

[Commando Jack]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1343052003' post='1744321']
How then do you work towards increasing tempo and thus dexterity/speed?
[/quote]

First things first, the slow speed is the speed at which you can play it completely perfectly. In the past I have caught myself out because I haven't been truely honest with myself about whether I'm playing it right. All the inaccuracies and bad habits at slow speeds will become worse as it increases to the point where you get a sloppy mess. Of course the other side of the coin is that if you are developing speed there is little point in you playing at 40 bpm if you can play it perfectly at 80 bpm. So, start at the speed where you can play comfortably and perfectly and try to be objective about this. You should aim to be finishing the exercise with a speed that you struggle to play. Again be objective about the point that your technique truly starts to slip.

Now taking that into consideration, just say you start an exercise at 60 bpm (which should be somewhere close to a max speed that you are playing perfectly). Play the exercise and increase bpm slightly. After 15 minutes or so, you might be at 80 bpm which is where you're really struggling. After a few practises, the 80 bpm will be getting easier so you shift the whole practise window up 10 bpm or so, starting at 70 and going to 90. After a period of time you're up to between 100 and 120 etc.

I guess it's a long winded way of saying that over time that initial 60 bpm will become so easy to you that it's just adding to your reps and essentially wasting time, so you just start higher. Of course, there is value in going the other way (i.e down to 50, 40, 30 etc) which helps with accuracy and timing but that's a whole other set of exercises.

[wishface]

How many 'reps' (if that concept applies to musical instruments) are required before upping the tempo? Do you, for instance, play through it once? Keep playing until you play the part at the current tempo perfectly? This may seem even a banal question, but i feel it is important.

[louisthebass]

I think it might be worth listening to what this guy has to say:

[url="http://www.bass2bass.net/lessons-pros/67-surviving-scene-5-practicing.html"]http://www.bass2bass.net/lessons-pros/67-surviving-scene-5-practicing.html[/url]

I'm a member of the forum there, have watched all of this guy's videos on the forum and everything he talks is good sense (IMO).

Hope it helps.