How do i stop our singers and me getting electrocuted?

[vmaxblues]

Hi guys,

We played a pub last night and all got shocks off the microphones, but only when we had our hands on our guitars. Our kit is fine in other places and I am assuming the place we played had a duff earthing system.

My question is is there any bit of kit we can plug in first that might alleviate this, its that or we all have perms and seemingly tourettes as we sing.

Cheers

Stuart

[wateroftyne]

A sturdy pair of welly boots.

[Dubs]

cant you buy cables with surge protectors or something similar built into them 'inline'? I'm sure I’ve seen them about and I'm actually pretty sure that I used one at a gig once - that was a jack to jack straight into my pedal board but im pretty sure you can get all sorts like XLR to XLR, XLR to Jack, etc etc...
that might do the job but I couldn’t recommend them as definitive solution.

[Guest]

[url="http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRMT.html?utm_source=froogle"]http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRMT..._source=froogle[/url]

one of these is useful, you just plug it in and if you get 3 lights away you go, also take you own RCD plug, Total outlay about £20 ,got to be worth it.

[bass_ferret]

Use an RCD - never plug in without one.

[niceguyhomer]

RCD + 1

[ahpook]

RCD plus the two

[vmaxblues]

Thanks guys, all ordered

[wateroftyne]

I hope you got pink ones with flowers on...

[Huge Hands]

The cheapest way is to chop the shield off the mic lead at one end (pin 1) and tape back so it doesn't short. This will solve your problem.

Its to do with you being grounded through your mic to the mixer, and also through the guitar, and the small potential differences in the ground paths.

I'm not sure how an RCD would solve this, other than stopping you dying from a serious electrical fault, so perhaps still a good precaution.

Im assuming you're on about those painful little zaps you get in the mouth when you get close to the mic?

Edited April 26, 2008 by Huge Hands

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='185476' date='Apr 25 2008, 06:13 PM'][url="http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRMT.html?utm_source=froogle"]http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRMT..._source=froogle[/url]

one of these is useful, you just plug it in and if you get 3 lights away you go, also take you own RCD plug, Total outlay about £20 ,got to be worth it.[/quote]

+ 1000... if you don't get the three lights, then give the venue an ultimatum... fix it or else you're not playing and you want your fee...

never take any excuses with electrics... it's your life and your band's at risk... and the venue have a duty of care...

(oh, and if you think they may get hinky about your fee, take photos of the test in progress and get the manager in shot with the test showing a fail, then he can't claim you faked up the test photos later...)

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I always use an RCD, but Pete in o5b was getting small earth differential shocks off his mic when his guitar amp isn't plugged into the same circuit as the mixer. It doesn't happen if the mixer and amp are on the same extension cable. This isn't always possible, so to stop him touching the mic he uses a big blue foam foam clown nose thing on his SM58.

[url="http://www.o5b.co.uk"][/url]

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='185677' date='Apr 26 2008, 01:00 AM']Its to do with you being grounded through your mic to the mixer, and also through the guitar, and the small potential differences in the ground paths.[/quote]
I get this when I'm plugged into different bits of equipment at the same time. For example, I can plug into the bass amp and then touch the shielding of the freeview box and get a 'tingle'. Ideally all the bits of kit you're in contact with should be going through the same multiplug socket so you don't get this ground path issue. The multiplug can go into the RCD if you're using one, of course.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='185732' date='Apr 26 2008, 08:52 AM']For example, I can plug into the bass amp and then touch the shielding of the freeview box and get a 'tingle'.[/quote]

You gig with a freeview box? Wow things are different in the Big City

+1 RCD

Another good reason to go wireless...

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='185732' date='Apr 26 2008, 08:52 AM']I get this when I'm plugged into different bits of equipment at the same time. For example, I can plug into the bass amp and then touch the shielding of the freeview box and get a 'tingle'. Ideally all the bits of kit you're in contact with should be going through the same multiplug socket so you don't get this ground path issue. The multiplug can go into the RCD if you're using one, of course.[/quote]

I should have said this really. The guitar amp and mixer need to be on the same ring main/power source so that the ground path is as similar as possible.

However, I don't always think it's the venue's fault. I ran a venue for a few years and out of having bands in there 52 weeks a year, all using the same sockets, I could count on one hand how many people complained (the same ones would often complain more than once). I think it also has to do with certain amp/guitar combinations.

In the end, I made a couple of "Ground lift" XLR cables as I mentioned in my last post and marked them up so they were obvious. If anyone had a problem, we used one of those.

It does work. you are basically removing the mixer's ground connection to the microphone casing, so no shock.

However, some venues will have bad electrics, so mains testers and RCD's are a good precaution for gear, and ultimately you if there was a serious electrical fault.

As I said before, unless the RCD is doing some ort of ground lift itself, I doubt one of those would help the problem that you complained of.

[niceguyhomer]

I had a lucky escape last night, my drink fell off the ledge mid-song last night (vibration I guess) right onto my extension lead (the business end). Wasn't sure what to do but I had my RCD in place so I kept going in a pool of coke and broken glass.

Nothing went bang fortunately but I was glad the RCD was there just in case.

[BOD2]

First of all you should always have an RCD protecting you and your equipment. It won't necessarily stop the problem of small shocks but it will prevent potentially lethal shock caused by faulty wiring or faulty equipment.

If possible, connect equipment to the same electrical circuit - usually that means using sockets in the same room and not running a long extension from another room.

If that doesn't work check to see if there are any "ground lift" switches at the rear of any equipment. If so, engage the switch to see if that fixes the problem.

If that still doesn't work use Huge Hands' suggestion of an XLR lead with the ground disconnected from one end only. You could make up a couple of short 1metre lengths of XLR cables with the ground disconnected at one end and just attach one.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='OldGit' post='185742' date='Apr 26 2008, 09:23 AM']You gig with a freeview box? Wow things are different in the Big City [/quote]
Dude, last night we gigged in a country hotel near Hatfield Heath which required an early set up (done by 2:15pm). So we brought a laptop, a hard drive with movies on it, a pair of loud Labtec PC speakers and we used the projector screen in the conference room we had been assigned for our dressing room. Plus we had free soft drinks and we ordered a plate loaded with sandwiches for 10 people off room service.

It really doesn't get any better.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='186414' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:15 PM']... so I kept going in a pool of coke and broken glass.[/quote]
Sounds like a night out with Pete Docherty

[bass player spinn]

well, this happened to us to. were were runnign everything through our pa system. but we just got a dif mike and it didnt shock us anymore. WIERD? or is it just ME? hmm