I don't really understand Rickenbackers

[cloudburst]

I'm really hoping to avoid offending people here - so (sincere) apologies in advance.

I find Rickenbacker basses a bit confusing.

As an example- they seem to be renowned for their unique clunky tone, however, some of my favourite Paul McCartney lines in the psychedelic period, apparently played on a Rickenbacker, have a warm smooth honey tone.

My summary understanding (based on only a little experience) of Rickenbackers would be as follows:
- Most bass players like the look of a Ric
- A small number of bass players love the Ric sound (an important group with a valid opinion, but still a minority)
- Almost no bass players rate Rics for their playability

Again, I don't want to offend. But how far am I off beam with the above generalisation? And how come Macca's lines sounded so un-Ric?

CB

[bubinga5]

arent alot of Mcartneys recorded lines played on a jazz bass.. ? im not really keen on Rics.. i might be shot for saying this but the one i played seem to be more style over substance..

[Dom in Dorset]

[Beedster]

Rics are very versatile. I play heavy tapewounds on my 4001 and it sounds just like Macca mid period (i.e., Rubber Soul to MMT when he was mostly recording with his Ric). With rounds it's a completely different animal. They're clanky when strung, set up, played and EQ'd to be clanky, which I guess is the preferred tone of a few people renowned for playing them (e.g., Lee, Squire).

C

[Ou7shined]

I like the Ric sound but I find it can be reproduced quite easily (sometimes by mistake) by other basses.

[simon1964]

Rickenbackers can do clanky. But solo the neck pickup and roll off the treble and you have a great thick thumpy tone. They are far more versatile than people give them credit for. Properly EQ'd you can get nice grindy rock tones, clanky Chris Squire tones, and rounded Jazz tones.

The playablity is a bit Marmite though. I love mine, but the necks do take some adjusting to if you're used to a Fender.

[DirkThrust]

How you rate the playability depends on how you play I guess. The first time I tried one in the shop I loved the neck and that alone sold it to me (apart from the fact that I'd driven there to buy one). It also suited my playing style to leave the pickup cover on and play behind it, like with a Precision with the chrome cover fitted.

The problem is if you remove the cover you're left with a yawning chasm between the edge of the pickup surround and the pickup itself so if you like to rest your thumb there it's too much of a stretch to play over the pickup and the pickup itself is too small to rest your thumb on, so if you're a fingers player it can be a problem.

Maybe it suits pick players better. Some of the biggest name Ric players like Macca, Bruce Foxton and Chris Squire play with a pick.

I eventually sold it because I couldn't get on with the sound but being used to Fenders that could have been down to my lack of experience in EQing it and/or an unsuitable rig.

I still love the looks and playability and I will own another one day.

[stingrayPete1977]

I was told by my mom many years ago "if you've got nothing nice to say".............

[Stacker]

They're [i]good[/i] basses, not great, and have their unique sound, whether with flats or rounds. I always played them with a pick, resting on the horsie and playing above the front pup. Their QC is pants and they are overpriced. Try getting a Jap copy, first.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Stacker

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1342719611' post='1739991']
My summary understanding (based on only a little experience) of Rickenbackers would be as follows:
- Most bass players like the look of a Ric
- A small number of bass players love the Ric sound (an important group with a valid opinion, but still a minority)
- Almost no bass players rate Rics for their playability
[/quote]

That's about the size of it right there. If you have lots of money, get one to hang on your wall and touch occasionally. Maybe even use it at gigs for just one song (make it an easy and simple one) and you'll look cool. £1,500 (ish) well spent.

For all other times, use a proper bass. An American Standard Fender Precision or Jazz will do the trick. You might as well buy both at the same time, as in the end, you'll end up with both anyway.

[paul_5]

I absolutely love the look and sound of a Ric, they're iconic on both counts. I once borrowed a mid '70s Ric 4001 to record a song for an EP that I'd written - "Ric into an Ampeg half stack" I thought, that'll sound superb! And it did. Everything I wanted from both the bass and the amp.

Couldn't get through a verse without fluffing it. Awful playability. I did it with a Jazz in the end, and have played them ever since.

Them still purty, purty basses though.

[Lozz196]

I`ve only ever played one Ric, and it was great.

Additionally, I went to see a group of bands play an all-day gig, the bass amp was provided. It was the guy with a Ric that had the most problems with being "boomy".

[4 Strings]

Macca used/uses Roto Trubass string, the tape wounds, and gets a wonderful, glowing sort of tone. You can sometimes hear a similarities in Chris Squire's, presumably when on the front pup.

However, the difference between the typical Macca and typical Squire is huge, bit only as huge as Entwhistle on Live and Leeds and Jamerson. Round wounds with the tone control open vs flats and the tone rolled off.

I think they have a wonderful sound. Unfortunately most of my playing is covers at the moment and so I need a more generic sound so not for me. Love to hear it though. Never had a go of a Rick, ought to before its too late!

[Beedster]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1342771546' post='1740575']
Macca used/uses Roto Trubass string, the tape wounds, and gets a wonderful, glowing sort of tone. You can sometimes hear a similarities in Chris Squire's, presumably when on the front pup.

However, the difference between the typical Macca and typical Squire is huge, bit only as huge as Entwhistle on Live and Leeds and Jamerson. Round wounds with the tone control open vs flats and the tone rolled off.

I think they have a wonderful sound. Unfortunately most of my playing is covers at the moment and so I need a more generic sound so not for me. Love to hear it though. Never had a go of a Rick, ought to before its too late!
[/quote]

Good post

[BigRedX]

There's no shame in not liking Rickenbackers (or any other basses), as there are plenty of others to play instead.

Be thankful that you're not living in the 60s and 70s when your choice was but a fraction of what is available today.

[The Dark Lord]

Commercially, they really ought to be less expensive than USA Fenders. If they came in at under a grand, then a lot of us would be more interested. Also, there is a ridiculously long waiting list. I guess they are happy with that? So, we just need to make do with what we can find or come across in shop stock. Not really going to make them big sellers.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1342780279' post='1740769']
Commercially, they really ought to be less expensive than USA Fenders. If they came in at under a grand, then a lot of us would be more interested. Also, there is a ridiculously long waiting list. I guess they are happy with that? So, we just need to make do with what we can find or come across in shop stock. Not really going to make them big sellers.
[/quote]

Why? A Rickenbacker bass is far more complex in construction than a Fender. Fenders have always been designed to be built at a price point below their perceived competition (originally Gibson and Rickenbacker). I would imagine that the lower cost helped to cement their initial poularity. After that it's all about economies of scale.

[Jack]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1342780279' post='1740769']
Commercially, they really ought to be less expensive than USA Fenders. If they came in at under a grand, then a lot of us would be more interested. Also, there is a ridiculously long waiting list. I guess they are happy with that? So, we just need to make do with what we can find or come across in shop stock. Not really going to make them big sellers.
[/quote]

I'd have to have a lot of basses (and disposable income) before I bought a Ric. Actually that's not true, I just can't stand them. But if they were really too expensive they wouldn't have such a waiting list.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342783132' post='1740833']
Why? A Rickenbacker bass is far more complex in construction than a Fender. Fenders have always been designed to be built at a price point below their perceived competition (originally Gibson and Rickenbacker). I would imagine that the lower cost helped to cement their initial poularity. After that it's all about economies of scale.
[/quote]

Absolutely, bolt on necks, flat machine heads, electrics mounted on plastic plates, frets set into the neck; part of the art of Fenders is their design for non-skilled factory massed production.

[Ou7shined]

The very first bass I ever played was a Ric. My step-dad was a well known bassist in the local music scene and it is his. I have no idea what model it is (I probably last saw it over 20 years ago). I remember it being a faded light blue with a very discoloured binding, probably very old seeing as he'd been gigging since the 60s. Grudgingly he let me learn my first tunes on it... before I turned to guitar. It's probably for this reason why any Ric (or any bass for that matter ) I've played since doesn't feel uncomfortable to me, although I can see why it could for others.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Ou7shined

[Si600]

I'm not keen on the shape, there's something funny about the horns, even though the long truss-rod cover is quite cool, but that's only my opinion.

Why does no-one ever mention Lemmy when suggesting a list of Ric players? Don't you like him?

(I'm a bit fuzzy from a pub lunch, so excuse me if I seem a bit blunt )

[4000]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1342774254' post='1740632']
Good post
[/quote]

Indeed!

Firstly, playability. Everyone is different so everyone will give a different opinion on this subject. For instance a s a general thing I like my basses set up really low so that for me they're easy to play, but to some that renders them unplayable. Why? Because they like high action and/or dig in more than I do.

With regards to Rics specifically, the first issue is that the scale length is slightly less than the more common 34" which may make a difference to some. Secondly, and this is the thing that seems to really divide opinion, the necks are a pretty similar width from the nut to the heel. Some people just can't get on with it. For me, it's the only way to go; all my favourite basses have that sort of neck. There's the fact that the fingerboard is lacquered, which many don't like but for some is great. Then the necks vary massively over the years. My '72s are very slim and slightly wider and flatter feeling than most post '73 basses. There are ones with pencil thin necks and ones with baseball bat necks and everything in between. Take your pick, or don't if you don't get on with any of them.

Sound wise, people seem to expect Chis Squire or McCartney. In reality you've got twin pickups with two controls each and obviously stereo on most basses. If you actually use those controls you can get loads of different sounds. I can get more varied and useable sounds out of my Rics (maybe because I've spent years playing them and really know them) than I've got out of most boutiques I've owned; only Alembic have been arguably more versatile. I'll add that I prefer ones with a toaster in the 1/2" neck position, rather than a neck high gain, although it could be argued the neck high gain gives a bit more oomph in a band situation.

Still, I can get loads of different useable sounds out of a P, more than I can from a J. If you take James Jamerson and Jean Jacques Burnel (or as someone mentioned before, Entwistle Live At Leeds), they both play Ps but sound very dissimilar. Different strings (and not even simply rounds vs flats, a different brand or gauge of strings can make a massive difference sonically and feel-wise), different rigs, different technique. These will all make a difference. Rics-wise, if you hate that clank, try 'em with flats and just use a toaster neck pickup. Roll the tone off if necessary. If you like clank, stick on some Roto rounds and crank your treble. Most types of bass are pretty versatile when it comes down to it, if you're prepared to do a little experimenting.

Ergonomically, tonally, playability wise, they are a bit marmite. But everything can be. I just can't get on with Jazzes, as much as I want to. Some people get lovely tones out of them (JPJ and Gary Thain spring to mind); I never can. Also to me they're incredibly uncomfortable on my body and the necks are as wrong as wrong can be; I'd choose a good Ric over any Jazz in terms of playability, but thats because they suit me better, no other reason; I don't believe anything is inherently better than anything else in terms of feel. It's all horses for courses; it's down to what feels comfortable to you and what suits your body and ears.

[4000]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1342720189' post='1740001']
arent alot of Mcartneys recorded lines played on a jazz bass.. ? im not really keen on Rics.. i might be shot for saying this but the one i played seem to be more style over substance..
[/quote]

Most of McCartney's Beatles lines are recorded on either Hofner or Ric.

As for the rest, see my post above.

[4000]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342783132' post='1740833']
Why? A Rickenbacker bass is far more complex in construction than a Fender.
[/quote]

+1. Whichever you prefer is entirely up to you, but that doesn't have a bearing on the actual cost to produce.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1342790016' post='1740980']Why does no-one ever mention Lemmy when suggesting a list of Ric players? Don't you like him?

(I'm a bit fuzzy from a pub lunch, so excuse me if I seem a bit blunt )
[/quote]

Big Lemmy fan... but maybe because he plays his Ric's like guitars that he doesn't get all that much recognition from us lot who tend to play counter melodies (or something... I'm nae great on the theory side of things)